Well, I'm a little peeved. Don't mean to be a ranter, but I gotta let you in on this.

Church yesterday was perfect as usual- perfect little mormons sharing perfect little testimonies and shedding perfect little tears when everything felt 'right'.

After sacrament meeting, a member of bishopric approached my wife and said the bishop was ready for her (she didn't tell me she had a meeting with him). Bishop was nearby and turned to me and said, mind if I steal your wife for a moment? I said sure (not trying to cause conflict).

He proceeds to drill her about me-- I'm sure he 'discerned by the spirit' the need to (more like noticed I skipped church to ski once and don't participate anymore in EQ)-- Anyways, she caved a little and told him I'm struggling with my testimony. Thank god she didn't tell him I had no testimony and was leaving the church after graduation. Either way, big breach of confidence and I'm pissed about it.

Then he suggests a few callings to help me to her to get her insight. She told me he's probably going to ask me to be the ward financial clerk "because I'm smart".

First off- can't believe this bishop's audacity to, rather than confront me personally, ask MY WIFE about my testimony and doubts. Talk to ME and I will set you straight.

Second- can't believe my wife spilled the beans. Y'all were right. I thought I knew her better but y'all called it. She spoke too soon.

Third- Crap! Now I will most likely have to take a dumb calling to appease the bishop till I get my diploma.

Sheesh. This is so much more I DON'T need on my plate

Mormon "callings" ?

When normal people get callings, it involves a telephone.

Somewhere I read (it may have been on this site) that Wallace Stegner wanted to write a book about Mormons, but he gave up when he realized he would need to spend most of his book explaining Mormonism to outsiders.

If you really knew anything about Wallace Stegner - which you obviously don’t - you’d know he wrote at least 2 books about Mormons: “Mormon Country” and “The Gathering of Zion.” And themes about Mormons and Mormonism appeared in his autobiographical writings.

You’ve never actually read anything by Wallace Stegner, have you?

> If you really knew anything about Wallace Stegner - which you obviously don’t: You’ve never actually read anything by Wallace Stegner, have you?

Wallace Stegner never claimed to know much about [himself] or to have read anything by him.

He SAID he "read somewhere", maybe here... Mr. John W. Powell

mightybuffalo: talk with your wife! Talk to the bishop. Stay busy and NO CALLINGS.

He also was a contributor to "Saints of Sage and Saddle", and did much historical work during the depressions as a member of the "government writing team" designed to employ writers and also increase and preserve knowledge of local history and lore.

slskipper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> but he gave up when he realized he would
> need to spend most of his book explaining
> Mormonism to outsiders.

Seriously, all he'd really have to do to is to direct people to this thread.

It's difficult to say which posts would be more effective in demonstrating the ridiculous, immature, smothering, controlling interactions/machinations encountered by those trying to navigate life inside Mormonism; the OP's recounting of his situation or the replies of other's offering advice as to how a grown man might cope with such ridiculousness.

You have a perfect reason to tell him you are very busy right now and to wait till after you graduate.

A successful career requires a good residency.
A good residency requires a strong medical degree.
Which requires top grades and recommendations.

The bishop would not want to jeopardize any of that, would he?

the bishop may be testing MB’s testimony and faith by giving him an important calling like financial clerk. And no, the bishop doesn’t care about MB’s grades.

MB, please work on your acting skills. When you go into the bishop’s office, I want an Oscar-worthy performance of a Morgasm. That’s right, I want you to get all emotional (tears are best) that you LOVE the church, but your classes as so hard, you LOVE your wife, and you just want to do the RIGHT THING by having a calling ... but (strain your voice and cry if possible) you just feel that the LORD is TESTING you by giving you so many difficult classes this year ... and ... (tears) can I just have a light calling ... I love this church so much ... tears ... bishop, I’m so sorry ...

Then after you walk out of his office say to yourself, “Fuck, that was fun! He fell for it!”

Let’s see, about 11 weeks and you’ll be free of this! The teary one-eyed Boner.

Boner,

As much as I love this idea, I think I need to take the calling as a safety measure-- my acting skills aren't that great and I don't want to give the Bish any more reason to be skeptical of my pure and everlasting testimony in TSCC.

I appreciate the sound advice, nonetheless.

MB - I don't think you realize the time commitment required to be the ward financial clerk! Duties include tracking accounts, numerous reports, bishopric meetings, Stake meetings, and basically all day Sunday hours.

You will be wise to follow Boner's suggestion.... or something like it.

https://tech.lds.org/wiki/Financial_clerk

THE BONER!! Your old buddy edz here. Stay strong, my friend!!

A proper response to "Mind if I steal your wife for a moment?":
Who do you think you are, Joseph Smith?!
Anyway, if you do get an "important" calling such as financial clerk, think of how satisfying it will be to just disappear from church after you graduate, leaving them high and dry. It may not work so well if you live in the likes of Provo, but the thought of all those frantic phone calls from people "depending on your responsibility," running around like headless chickens, gives me a sliver of mirth.

Haha truth right there. Unfortunately I am moving in April anyways and I think the ward already knows we are taking off right after graduation. So... won't be as fun as just disappearing.

Do you see how they use family? If you try to avoid them they get a sibling or a spouse. It's insidious. The greatest quagmire I ever faced in my life was my own Mormon family. And I've been through some misadventures.

Donbagley,

Unreal how they do that. The irony is phenomenal. Marriage is sacred, yadda yadda yadda, but if you may be doubting then marriage is a way to manipulate you.

Well, on a bright note, the school can't give you an honor code violation for having doubts or struggling with your testimony. Perhaps you could tell your bishop that you may not be available on certain Sundays due to having to fly out to medical school interviews.

You still have a current ecclesiastical endorsement that's good until the end of the term, right? At this point, short of an honor code violation, I'm not sure that there's much they can do to you. Perhaps others can weigh in.

summer,

thankfully I don't need another EE. Mine is satisfactory till I graduate and I already applied and was accepted for April's graduation.

Being financial clerk is great cover for an unbeliever. You can hide out in the clerk’s office, doing “whatever sacred responsibilities that such clerks do” and avoid all kinds of church meetings.

The best part is that everyone will think you’re diligent instead of being an apostate slacker.

Congratulations!

Disclaimer: Please disregard all my comments if it doesn't seem right for you and your life. I'm just free associating some ideas here.
Let your wife know that she has crossed a boundary. But also give her a bit of understanding. You are in an awful position, but so is she. Both of you have a lot to figure out and renegotiate. Yes, she gave you up (under pressure). She then admitted to you what she had done. She did not just go out and initiate a secret meeting with the bishop or her family and then blindside you with an intervention. You also played a role in outing yourself--by skipping church, by not participating in EQ. Possibly by being on this board. There are always lurkers here trying to sniff out who in their ward is having problems. Maybe role play with her what she might say. "Bishop, thank you for taking an interest in our wellbeing. I'm not comfortable speaking for my husband. Why don't you speak to him directly? I'm sure he'd be happy to meet with you. Is there anything else I can help you with today?" Keep smiling, exude warmth and kindness, and as he continues to question, keep repeating "I'd rather you speak with him. That's how we do it in our marriage." "Of course, bishop. That's just how we do it, and of course, I consider the privacy and sanctity of my marriage to be really important." This means you have to be willing to meet with him, and you should role play that one too. Cause you are also going to have to smile, be relaxed, exude warmth and care, too. "I don't know what's got into me, Bishop. Even at the time I knew I was supposed to be in church. (And you did know. "Supposed to be" as in "the rules say I should", not as in "it's what god wants me to do.") I guess I just let finals and the really nice snow day get the better of me." If he presses you, then "Yeah, I am struggling with somethings right now. I don't know if it's depression or what." "But don't worry. I'm keeping the commandments--WOW, marriage vows, religious study." (you don't have to mention that your religious study is on RFM). "I guess I broke the sabbath day, but I promise I'll be in church next week." Hopefully that will satisfy him. But if he launches into ecclesiastical endorsement or temple questions, you'll want to know how to handle that.

I agree with East Coast Exmo and Brother of Jerry. You must be very careful now. And a ward clerk position is a perfect. You can show your bishop a high level of dedication to that job without doing a lot of preaching. You don't have to constantly bear your testimony or teach a false doctrine class. You may, in fact, find out some interesting tidbits or have access to some interesting documents that you want to share at a later point.

Be sure to participate enthusiastically where you can. It helps distract from the areas you are avoiding. For example, do your home teaching, but make the message about service or loving one another. Something you could get behind. If an opportunity to help someone in the ward come up, take it. Better yet, find an opportunity and share it with the bishop. I'm guessing that being helpful to people and always showing love is something you can support whether in a church context or not. When offering public prayers, maybe you could say something like "Thank you for this beautiful world. Help us to love. Love for ourselves, for our families, for our communities. Bless us to see the good in each other." Skip the "Help us to be obedient, We thank thee for a living prophet" stuff.

Best of luck.

Rameumptom,

thanks for the words-- sound advice. I think I will probably end up taking the calling and "hiding in it" so to speak. As for what to say to DW, still working through the advice I'm receiving about how to confront it better.

I already blew up at her Sunday when I found out about it... we both apologized and I'm still angry obviously but I should plan the next moves with her carefully.

I agree.

They left me alone in the clerk's office.

Also, a big plus is not having to attend any ward councils or BP meetings as the financial clerk.

I would be more than pissed. You may love your wife but the trust is now broken. Even if you stay together, it will take years to mend that breach though you may try to forgive her.

If the bishop calls you in, I would rail the hell of him and tell him to NEVER go behind your back again. If he feels the desire to speak to you, he does so to your face. What a flippen coward! How dare he try to get your wife to rat you out?

If he extends a calling to you after that, just tell you have to think about it and then let him know he crossed a sacred boundary by speaking to your wife first. Low down sneaky weasel.

I wouldn't share another thought about your testimony or how you feel about the cult with your wife (or the bigshit) until after April. Just count the days and keep a smile plastered on your face.

If questioned, giggle and reply with question. You can even say, "I'm not going to answer that", and act like you are making a joke. Or make a flip remark/question like, "who wants to know, writing a book?

Do NOT get goaded into a place where you feel you have to Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain. Doing so will take you down. JMHO

This is exactly what I WANT to do. I think a blow up may put a lot at jeopardy so I'll hold the retaliation against bishop till I have diploma and transcripts in hand.

Thanks for helping me feel validated in my feelings though. Good to know someone else would feel similarly.

Take the calling, keep your head down and your mouth shut. You are walking on thin ice.

In your previous thread, you said as long as you were still a member, BYU wouldn't throw you out for having questions. So as long as you don't resign.....

True enough, as far as it goes, but you ignored the fact that resigning is not the only way to terminate your membership. LDS Inc can terminate it for you. It's possible your wife and bishop could convince themselves that you are an apostate. If you get exed prior to graduation, BYU will expel you.

One shoe has already dropped. Hubris is a very bad idea right now, IMHO.

Boy oh boy, is this good advice from BOJ. Play the part they want you to play. Now is not the time for arrogance, snide remarks, grimaces, double entendres, or other clever subliminal signals that give you satisfaction momentarily. Do not get into it with your wife right now...you will lose. If you win, you lose. You are vulnerable at the moment. As I said in a previous post, STFU and fly under the radar as best you can. You can deal with all the rest after graduation. If someone is monitoring this site, it may be too late, but be careful what you say here.

Your wife's loyalty is deeply divided. You cannot trust her to support and defend you.

The fact she went to another man as if he had authority over her to say ANYTHING related to you is unacceptable.

I think you need to have a discussion with her once you get the diploma. She needs to know she gets to talk only about herself to others. If someone from her church asks about you, she needs to spine up and tell them they can ask you.

Ask her if it is OK if you make an appointment to go talk to the Bishop's wife privately about her. Ask her how she would feel if you said to the Bishop, "Hey, can I steal your wife for a few minutes (to talk about you)?"

One caveat. When my husband was in school I had a pretty good job and my undergraduate degree. All the other Mormon medical and dental wives were busy having kids and collecting welfare. Over time, the many of guys outgrew their wives intellectually. If your wife is not your educational and intellectual equal, this can create a void in your relationship over time. You will be forever doomed to talk about kids, church and household crap.

Does she respect you? Is her goal to back up her SUV to the loading dock at Macys and live large? Whatever she envisions for her future, she may need to be honest with you about whether she puts you or the church first. I hope she puts her own career first but I don't know if you have talked much about her academic goals.

Next time, tell the bishop "sure my wife AND I will be meet with you."

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I think you need to have a discussion with her
> once you get the diploma. She needs to know she
> gets to talk only about herself to others. If
> someone from her church asks about you, she needs
> to spine up and tell them they can ask you.

Key words here being "once I get the diploma". I think you're right dagny thanks!
>
> Next time, tell the bishop "sure my wife AND I
> will be meet with you."

Yeah not letting that one slip again. I'm defenseless if I'm not in the room.

If the bishop asks you directly about your testimony, look him in the eye and lie/deny. If he says that your wife told him you were struggling with your testimony, tell him it was a misunderstanding between you and her. Tell him that you 'KNOW' the church is true and try to tear up a bit. (Try not to gag too much). You have to play the game til April, then all bets are off.

Your wife will most likely be feeling guilt/remorse for betraying your confidence. Let her. After April you can enter into an honest exchange with her. If she apologizes before you graduate tell her, "thank you" and that you accept her apology and then drop it. You cannot risk your future by getting into a row with her over this. JMHO

Better yet, insist that that the bishop must have confused your wife and somehow extracted a false accusation from the wife in private. Say your testimony is strong and your wife must have misunderstood what the bishop wanted to talk about.

You could laugh it off saying, "My wife would think picking a weed on Sunday means a weak testimony."

Lie and deny until you get the h3ll out of there.

I'm sorry, mb.
Others have given some good advice...take from it what you will.

I wouldn't be too hard on your wife, if I were you. She really is between a rock and a hard place, and was manipulated by the bishop. She's not where you are...and she didn't give away the whole show. She did breach your trust, but it seems to me that she wasn't entirely honest with the bishop -- which is a step in the right direction :)

If it were me, I'd try and get out of the calling. Even ward clerk is a time-sink, and opens up too many possibilities of being "found out." But that's up to you.

Good luck, and hang in there.

I agree with my buddy, Hie. I still recommend the Morgasm performance for the bishop, but be gentle with the wife. Once you get your diploma, the two of you can work on your marriage. (((hugs, MB))).

Yeah good point guys... The doctrination and brainwashing is deep for sure, my real anger oughta be directed at the morg.

MB, I've been watching your posts with interest as you are going through familiar territory. I've got to say, you are a bit hard headed. STFU and just graduate.

"First off- can't believe this bishop's audacity to, rather than confront me personally, ask MY WIFE about my testimony and doubts. Talk to ME and I will set you straight."

You have been Mormon long enough to have seen that coming. Of course you can believe it. That is business as usual. Mormon audacity is legendary. Going behind backs is legendary. You being a project now is legendary Mormonism. Giving you a calling is the antidote.

"Second- can't believe my wife spilled the beans. Y'all were right. I thought I knew her better but y'all called it. She spoke too soon."

I get why you can't believe your wife would do this. However, People being married to the church first and their spouse second is legendary Mormonism. Now you have gotten a taste of where your wife stands, don't fool yourself anymore. She may be torn, but she is not ALL on your side. She answered to the Lord (bishop) first and you second as she has been indoctrinated to do. Mormonism trumps love.

"Third- Crap! Now I will most likely have to take a dumb calling to appease the bishop till I get my diploma."

Yes. You will. And you will pull out every acting bone in your body and make Jack Nicholson look like an amateur actor as you glow in your new calling. Subtle, nuanced, and convincing.


I'm in an ornery mood this morning and so I had that to say it that way. Because I care. I remember being at the Y and flying under the radar. It ain't easy. Good luck.

Wake up and smell the coffee as they say---just don't drink it . . .yet.

Thanks for the honesty done and done. I should've seen this coming. And i really need to keep my head down. Just sucks doing it-- when you've lived a lie for so long it feels like I'm busting from the seams to escape it already.

You are playing against a stacked deck. Nothing about the game is fair. Keep your cards tight to your chest and forget being forthright with anyone. We are all pulling for you.

Take the ward clerk calling.

Give a little a "Shawshank Redemption" to the finances.

See you in Mexico :)

I agree with others about shutting the hell up.
This is the same advice we give to teenagers living under the parent roof. Toe the line. Make a plan for the long game with the church and the wife. Stick to it! Then when the date arrives cash in. You'll look back and say "Thank effing god I hung in there!"

You can still look faithful even without accepting a calling. Just say "Yes you've had Q's and who doesn't? But you are reading such and such prophets book and it is helping you big time. but school is killing me and no can do bish."

A discussion needs to be had with the wife in that you have each others back. New plan is that neither of you tattle on the other to anyone on planet earth. Tell her that you would never have allowed gossip behind closed doors where she can never know what was actually said. Use this to build trust with her to build a new plan going forward and as a teaching moment, not to criticize but to educate how what happened is cult like surveillance mentality. In no other venue is this an OK practice.

Patience and the long game and you'll get your wife and your life back. Success,,,,,the best revenge.

AmIDarkNow? Wrote:

Tell her that you would never have
> allowed gossip behind closed doors where she can
> never know what was actually said. Use this to
> build trust with her to build a new plan going
> forward and as a teaching moment, not to criticize
> but to educate how what happened is cult like
> surveillance mentality. In no other venue is this
> an OK practice.



Yeah I'm using this one for sure. Golden

This thread brings back so many memories of being "reported" to the bishop by a tbm spouse. I would now call that "emotional infidelity."

So much about moronism is so effed up, such as this spouse vs spouse strategizing.

Listen up, MB. I mean what I'm about to say out of love and concern for you:

You have been given some incredibly good advice by many caring people on this thread. Now, as it concerns your activity in tscc until you graduate (and get many multiple copies of your transcripts IN HAND): grin and bear it, my brother. Ride the wave to graduation...THEN do what you must. And one thing you really MUST do is have a heart-to-heart with your wife. She must know that you will not tolerate the emotional infidelity of her tattling to the bishop behind your back. That is STRICTLY off-limits. And one more thing: if you are going to continue to post here before you graduate, then you really, REALLY need to be as vague and generic as possible...there ARE lurkers here...and probably from every ward in tscc. Better yet, stop posting here until you graduate, THEN come back and tell us all about it when nobody has anything to hold against you from an ecclesiastical perspective. I just don't want to see you get hurt, buddy. Hang in there, and know that there are many people here who want to see you be a huge success, both personally and professionally. All the best, -edz

edzachery,

I never thought of it like that but I think you're exactly right. Emotional infidelity. That's what it feels like at least. Piercing to know that she put an old man she met 3 months ago before me. Youch.

LOL. I know this seems like a huge huge thing. But take the ward clerk calling and laugh. You will find out a lot of crap you don't want to know, and you can share this info with your wife to convince her of the absurdity of the entire mormon experience.

When I was in the bishopric the clerk and I would regularly lament and laugh-so-we-didn't-cry about what people went through to try and be "good" mormons.

They (leadership) have no discernment. If they did they would not be in leadership. You can almost be blatant in your disbelief as long as you follow the forms.

icanseethelight Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...You will
> find out a lot of crap you don't want to know, and
> you can share this info with your wife...

Or, you could keep mum, acknowledging that they (whoever "they" are) are human too and have troubles of their own and it should be none of your business, much less your spouse's.

Even better, "they" are likely suffering whatever difficulties they're having in part due to attempting to keep up with the unrelenting and unforgiving demands of the church. Maybe you could learn to be somewhat compassionate for them.

You misunderstand. I do not promote outing people's issues. I promote exposing the ugly underbelly of the church. And the lengths good people go to maintain hope that the church can deliver the fiction of an "eternal family". And expose how her bishop set her against her him by using emotional blackmail and creating FUD.

One final note. The by-the-book-conservatives just took over the presidency. There will be some backlash on many of the more liberally minded members over the next 2-3 years.

Duck and cover. Lie like your degree depends on it.

It's not GETTING a 'calling'.

It's GIVING one.

Who has the time (and desire)? Assure him, YOU DON'T.

M@t

Buff

Listen to me carefully. The word is out on you. If the bishop knows so does the rest of BYU. TAKE THE FUCKING CALLING!!!! It is perfect way to hide during anything but sacrament. Answer all questions from the bishop when he interviews you with all the pattycake answers you know..... if you screw this up and lose your diploma I will personally kick your ass. Now how to handle your bride...forgiveness. Pretty simple. If you are as smart as they say you are you might be a neonatologist some day and you can take my place.

Gatorman

I would recommending memorizing this one.

Take the finance clerk job. My ex did that job several times and, yes, you can skip meetings. He didn't mind the job at all. And you have to stay after church to count the tithing and your wife will have to wait for you or go home alone.

You have to remember also to think from a mormon woman's point of view. You are threatening her forever family. That is a HUGE ISSUE for female mormons. It isn't about being the perfect mormon woman, it is about she lived all her life for her temple marriage and forever family, and you are threatening it. She's going to do whatever it takes to get you in line. I'm sure she's talked to other women. She didn't just talk to the bishop. The other women probably told her to go to the bishop--like her mother.

I wouldn't give her any more ammo.

Gatorman,

coming in clutch as always. Looking forward to working with ya!

Your wife being TBM, it's understandable that she would cave under bishop's priesthood authority. She thinks he speaks for God and she wants only the best for you. She loves you and sees a Mormon eternity together rather than a happy mortal life. You also don't know exactly how much pressure he put on her. Others have said, and I will repeat, the church comes first! She's indoctrinated to believe this so don't take it too personally. She believes she is doing what's best for you and her. Save the discussions about loyalty, church falsehoods, etc. until you are on safe and steady ground. When you are fully graduated with OFFICIAL diploma in hand and dually recorded THEN have the big talk. But take it slow. She's been carefully indoctrinated for her entire life. Unraveling the muck of Mormonism will take a little time. Patience may win the day.

You may be able to deflect a little of the bishop's concern by confessing that you were just weak and took a ski weekend only because you are getting burned out with school and needed a little relaxation before the finals push. Poor wifey misunderstood your motives and you only talked to her about doubts because so many of your friends/family have doubts and you just wanted to discuss some of it with her. Convince him that she took your discussion completely out of context and the wrong way. You might want to throw in some good will like "I'm really going to miss BYU when I graduate" and "I'm glad you care enough to talk to me about these things" etc. Brown nosing and pumping the guy's ego cannot hurt unless he knows you are faking.

Ask your wife nicely how he pumped her about you and you may get a better picture of just how much he knows. Keep her on your side by showing her you understand her motives. Save your disappointment in her for when you can afford to handle the fallout.

Curious to know if you will be leaving Provo immediately after graduation or if you are tied to the area for a long period. I think your greatest hope with your wife and your life are to buck it out of Mormonville, Utah, ASAP. I'm sure finances play a part in all this but I really hope you get into a medical school, and a life, far away. The east will probably work better than the west if you are looking for a clean break from LDS, Inc. Good luck friend!

I can't believe how many people are telling you to accept the calling. It hasn't even been officially issued to you. You do not have to accept any calling or justify your reason for not accepting it. You do not have to talk about your concerns with anyone either. You just have to finish up your studies without saying anything to anyone about what is going on. Church-related conversation with your wife should also follow the same dialogue as with the bishop. You could say "I am just trying to figure out my life and need some time to think -- I don't want to elaborate!" If they cannot give you some space to figure out your life, then they are in the wrong!

Working closely with the bishop runs the risk of him prying into your life and wanting to understand your hangups. It is way more risky working closely with him than asking him to respect your space. Once you deny him the opportunity to try and help you gain back your testimony, he'll have to concede defeat. He'll know that he tried and that his hands are washed clean of any guilt related to his obligation to you as your bishop. Once he is guilt-free for trying, you will be in the clear. You will be able to keep the conversation casual once you set him straight that you need your time alone to contemplate your life. Nobody can force you to confess your true feelings and neither can they threaten your standing in the church if you are just quiet about it. Ditto with your wife. She needs to keep quiet and not feel compelled to explain your actions. She needs to be able to say "If you are interested in what my husband thinks or feels, please go talk to him, he'll be happy to tell you what is going on with him". And of course, you are just needing time to figure out your life! Be certain to say "I still have my faith intact" but never say more than that. They will assume you are referring to the church! Let them think as they please and say nothing more.

Damn thats a really good point. Long story short, I need to keep the bishop at bay

I second this recommendation. Good call Paisley.

His wife isn't going to keep her mouth shut and tell the bishop to ask him about his issues. She's going to keep talking and talking because she is in fear of losing her forever family, her temple marriage. if she had never talked, that would be one thing. His whole career is threatened by this. He needs to do whatever it takes mormon-wise to keep things from getting out of control.

They already are out of control. They don't let up. Been there, done that. Once you start the ball rolling, there is no stopping it unless you play by their rules. His wife is talking. We all knew she would. She isn't going to stop. She doesn't care about his education now. she cares about her forever family, her marriage. She'll do whatever it takes, education be damned. That is only temporal, not celestial.

Hey Buff

There is some logic from Paisley above. My sole purpose for urging you to accept the calling was the possible quieting TSCC biggest source of information- your wife. What ever you choose you have to provide some balm to silence her wounds. By not talking to anyone festers their desire to “ get to the bottom of it” which means she has not had the last talk with the bishop.

Gatorman

Buff

Another way of saying this is if you let a bishop reach his own conclusions he will. Not talking just accelerates that conclusion

Gatorman

Hey Buff

Had a lot of written work to do earlier and now can collect my thoughts. I didn’t go to BYU and only know one who did. Was my chief resident now an endocrinologist. Some on the board hint that they could/would pull your diploma for apostate behavior. Whether this has really happened in the past I don’t know. Frankly to prevent a student from going to med school would publicly not be in their best interest. The PR/legal fallout would be enormous. So is this a real threat? I am not in a position to know but the way it is talked about here it seems to be.

Paisley has some great points. All members here see things a bit different from time to time. That is the panorama of human experience.

From my perspective is constantly looking over your shoulder for the LDS gestapo the way you want to spend the last semester of undergrad training? Or wondering if wife is spilling beans everywhere? I took courses I would never have an opportunity to look at again-astronomy, geology and philosophy. Also spent a lot of time shadowing docs at the on campus med school. You could spend time with community docs doing the same thing. Really begin to see what you are going to deal with.

You mentioned keeping the bishop at bay. Give it a try. But having dealt with asshole chairman, deans, etc I learned the best way to keep the leader of the herd at bay was to be part of the herd. In other posts we have reminded you not to draw attention to yourself. Looking back on 70+ years of eating, sleeping and excreting I have a lot less skid marks on my ass by taking the path of least resistance.

As to your bride- you know she has talked and will continue to do so. Give her and TSCC no amunition. Go to church. Take a calling. I was a ward clerk once and was surprised to learn how many people we had no idea where they were. Or even alive. But I digress. The looming question between the two of you is she going east with you. How you approach this is critical as is the timing of the question. First,do you want her to? If no then riding things quietly out is paramount because a woman scorned can be very vengeful. And stabbing your ass in the back is a potential.

If you want her into your life you have to demonstrate that. Frankly that means going to SM and sitting with her. Hell, I hate Broadway musicals(most anyway) but I go because my wife adores them. You have to cross the path into her sphere to see what drives her. You may be surprised at what you learn. It may not be the gospel as much as the appearance of the perfect Mormon marriage, security and what others perceive as the successful LDS woman. Getting her out of Provo May change her self-image.

Eventually the question of church versus the Buff will have to be addressed. I strongly recommend that discussion after graduation and transcripts in hand.

Other ideas from anybody? SCMD? Boner? EdZachery? You guys alive?

Keep us posted my man.

Gatorman

Another possible alternative is to explain the work and stress you'll be under in the final months before graduation, on top of that you'd be under the gun learning the ward clerk calling and would have the calling until you needed to move to grad school. Another would need to be called for the ward clerk job and you wouldn't be around to pass the torch.