So I am retired divorced from a rabid bitter Mormon woman. I was married a long time and glad that its over.
Being out of Mormonism is the very very very best gift I have ever gotten.

I have been dating a gal who is Mormon but never attends or talks about the Church.
WE have been dating for a couple years and she has left 2 marriages for reasons that seem shallow. I So I finally find out that the last marriage ended after she intentionally had an affair with a guy to end the marriage.

so my question is what are the logical chances she will cheat again? I crystal ball says "yes" the story of what happened keeps changing when I ask about it, which is seldom. Just thought I'd ask this group because I'm just worried about the long term if it ever came to marriage. thx

We left the Mormon church because they keep "changing their story." Why would that M.O. in a relationship be any less reason to get the hell out of Dodge?

Don't you deserve better than to have to wonder, to doubt? This is like getting something out of the fridge that's been there a long time and eating it, but you can't enjoy it even though it tastes okay, because in the back of your mind you keep wondering the whole time if you are going to be throwing up in a while or unable to get off the toilet for the next couple of days.

This isn't a time for graphs and charts and probabilities. You already know the risk. Just decide if you are going to take it or not. There are no guarantees with anyone you know. Taking it slow though would be good.

You're retired? You've been dating for two years?

Is there any overweening need or desire to tie the knot?

Just keep enjoying the milk; forget buying the cow! Then if she follows her pattern and dumps you, you'll save a few bucks in legal expenses and the attendant drama.

Rock on, exmo!

elderolddog Wrote:
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> You're retired? You've been dating for two years?
>
>
> Is there any overweening need or desire to tie the
> knot?
>
> Just keep enjoying the milk; forget buying the
> cow! Then if she follows her pattern and dumps
> you, you'll save a few bucks in legal expenses and
> the attendant drama.
>
> Rock on, exmo!

Where's the love, bro?

I'd be more worried about the mindset of a person who thinks that the best way to exit a marriage is by having an affair....

This right here!!!

Isn’t that why the big red “self destruct” button is there? Like Ripley frying an alien.

I'm of the opinion that people (Attitudes, goals, methods) CAN change, because I did.

I AGREE with DONE & DONE.

"You knew what I was when you picked me up. Said the Rattlesnake to the Fox."

You've made your assessment. It's not good and you know it.

Are you asking for permission? For acceptance by this forum of an obvious bad future decision?

Do what you like but here is an observation. There are 3.5 billion women on planet earth.

Let that sink in for a moment.

I know too many people who "cheated" once, and then never again, to accept the generalization "once a cheater, always a cheater."

In this case, though (as gettinreal pointed out), it's not the generalization that matters, it's the individual woman -- who admits she thought the best way to end a marriage was by intentionally sleeping with another man.

If something happens to YOUR relationship with her, will she think the same thing?

I like elderolddog's entirely pragmatic response...unless you're in some kind of hurry to get married, enjoy the time with this woman, but there's no reason to "commit." If and when she decides it's time to end it (by "cheating" on you or not), then end it. :)

This is the Age of The No-Fault Divorce. Why didn't she just hire an attorney? If her husband was abusive, cheating on him might have endangered her life. She's obviously lying.

I have had a LOT of experience, and have heard the experiences of many, many divorced singles, during the years I was called to be co-chairman of the Regional LDS Singles. I am 99% certain:

"Once a cheater, always a cheater."
"Cheaters are also liars."
"Once a liar, always a liar."

Many adulterers are Cluster B personality types, who can not and will not change.

Sounds like you’re the one asking all the questions and trying to find reasons to terminate this relationship. Keep it up and you’ll get your wish.....you’re retired and have a girlfriend who doesn’t seem to like being married. I second EOD’s comment. However, ifyou need a big marriage commitment, I say move on.

What are her values regarding monogamy and intimacy? Is she willing and able to commit one on one? Would you know right now if she were cheating on you by her demeanor?

Is she worthy of your trust?

Is cheating on a spouse any different than cheating on a boyfriend in her mind?

There's much for you to learn about her regarding where she stands on the subject, and where you stand with her.

Without mutual trust, respect and commitment the odds of your going the distance with her is dubious at best.

A lot of women cheat to end a relationship, its very easy for them to cheat and an easy way out. You can believe she will more than likely do it to you. Just date her until something better comes along, dont spend too much on her while you wait.

Just date. Good advice.

"I had several people I was dating that cheated repeatedly."

I knew one. Forgot her though.

My experience is that cheating is part of a person's character.

I forgave a cheating spouse twice. Silly me.

I had several people I was dating that cheated repeatedly.

I'd say walk away.

Some wise guy said we seek problems o learn solutions...you'll almost always know of people whose lives are filled with drama and intrigue...I wonder if they seek problems even in the people they are attracted to...so enlightenment asks...why do you find her attractive...simple answer..the danger the intrigue the need to suffer??...as you did in your first marriage??...I'd bet she'll make your decision for you..she may get a better offer...then woof woof....problem solved...now listen to your elder...old dog woof woof...we are all settlers...what will you settle for??

A person cheats because they do not value the relationship enough to make it priority number one.

The question is does she value the relationship? Is she in this relationship to build it and grow together, or, does she look at you like she found Mr. Right and has put you on a pedestal and into a category that she thinks you are going to be exactly what she wants you to be---that you can never live up to, nor should you---and then when you don't she will find a way out rather than deal with your situation directly.

Sometimes cheating is hanging in when there is nothing left. That is when one cheats themselves.

Some people just aren't worth being with. Sometimes it's better to bail rather than live in hell.

I'm in a relationship right now with a woman going through an Annulment. If the Judge signs off on the Annulment it will be as if she was never married. So now I got a juicy question for you about what kind of sinning I'm doing right now when she and I make love.

Is it fornication? Is it adultery?

Its hard to start the repentance process if I don't know what category of sin I'm committing.

Wow!!

Is it adultication, or fornidultery?

You need to check with the ward father, your bishop. Let him decide; he's inspired, you know...

It depends. Are you using the same position that JS used with Fanny Alger?

intelligent beings are always open to change, which some people term as 'adapting' to new facts, circumstances.

"... what kind of sinning I'm doing right now when she and I make love."

Whatever kind you want!

"Is it fornication? Is it adultery?"

Both. Fornery AND Adultication.

"Its hard to start the repentance process if I don't know what category of sin I'm committing."

The one of THINKING.

MAJOR, major one!

M@t

When we are together I am so focused on thinking of ways to make it more pleasurable for her and geared towards lasting mutual happiness that it leaves me little time to think about the category of sin that we are committing.

Well folks, I gotta say that threads like this make me nostalgic for the wise counsel of our former resident RfM Dr Love who generously offered his astute wisdom as soporific succor to the lovelorn.

What does "she intentionally had an affair" actually mean? You mean there are unintentionally affairs? She's Wacked but if you are getting along, keep dating her.

women cheat to be able to get out of a bad relationship
men cheat to be able to stay in a bad relationship

from a TED talk, one of the best observations on relationships ever, even though not always strictly true

Heads up, OP.

She has just told you who she is.

You don't need our opinions on "who she might be in the future." No revelators, here.

All you have to do is believe the truth when you hear it.

The choice is yours. Facts, or revelations.

Such as the kid's been around the block, and shows no signs of stopping now ...

Be as wary of what she doesn't say, as what she does ....

I have cheated several times in the past and will give you my perspective. At the time I was in a sexless marriage so it may have been a unique situation, but I don't think that was an excuse and it caused a lot of harm. Dishonestly kills a relationship.

That was years ago and have not cheated since. However, I will say I have to be exceptionally careful in what situations I put myself in because I really don't trust myself.

So the answer really depends on the person. History generally predicts the future but I think everyone is prone to cheating if they are not getting their needs met. I think the most important thing is that you are completely honest about it. My current boyfriend and I talk about it. If I am tempted I tell him.

anon for this Wrote:
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> I have cheated several times in the past and will
> give you my perspective. At the time I was in a
> sexless marriage so it may have been a unique
> situation, but I don't think that was an excuse
> and it caused a lot of harm.

ummmm you must have meant that you do not feel that it was a valid excuse ....in the long run, because it certainly worked as an impromptu excuse at the time.

As someone who has also made this mistake I wish to add my two cents. What I did was wrong and it caused real problems for more than just me, my wife, my children, and the woman who I cheated with. However most of us have gotten over it and my mistake created a real opportunity to live a better life for all of us.

For the OP, are you nervous that you can't live up to the expectations of the relationship that you have entered into? Trust is painful to give because of the hurt that happens when it is broken. Fear is equally painful. I think you owe it to yourself to either trust this person or get out of the relationship. You get to be selfish here. What you do not get to do is to distrust your partner, stay in the relationship, make life miserable for yourself and your partner, and eventually make the decision to cheat easier for your partner.

For Smirkorama, reasons are reasons regardless. A bad reason is nonetheless a reason.

Grownups don't need to have an affair in order to end their marriages. They go see a divorce lawyer. You girlfriend seems to be lacking in maturity. She's already shown you who she is. Why would you marry or trust your heart to someone like that?

If your Mormon gal's story of what happened keeps changing, then she is lying.

My ex-husband was a serial cheater, and he enjoying the lying, most of all. It was like a hobby with him. When we got divorced, he immediately married one of his women--so he would have someone to cheat ON, and lie to. He actually came back to me, and asked me to cheat on his new wife with him, after he was married. It's true that "once a cheater always a cheater."

I don't have any relationship advice, but I do have a helpful hint:

When you can't make up your mind--that means you need more INFORMATION!

--Find out why her other marriage ended.

--Find out what county in which her divorces took place. Divorces are filed on public record, and you can read the papers, whenever you want. Most divorces are "no fault", but often spouses like to have a public record of adultery or abuse. If she had a court case, the transcripts will be on file for you to read.

--Find out more facts about the guy she had an affair with.

--Could she possibly be hurrying marriage, because she's after your money? Con-artists use sexual pressure and manipulation, because they don't want to give their victims time to think and do research into their past. Rushing is a red flag.

--If she is Mormon, was she excommunicated? Does she have children or step-children? Why won't she talk to you about the church?

You need more facts.

There's good advice from the other posters. You need to look at you own ability to make a wise choice. You both are coming out of bad marriages, bad choices.

If you can't talk to your gal about things, and ask her questions, you need to work on communicating with each other, before you consider marriage.

I'm the OP
from the last question..
She wasn't ex'd but put on dis-fellowship status and really never went back. She first said it was a one night stand and then later the story changed to an affair.

I'm going to end this relationship with her because there are just too many red flags and a history of bad financial mistakes.
I'm not boasting but I don't bring any baggage to the relationship where as she has a truckload. This is my first time out in the real world as it were and 95% of the time we spent together was wonderful but that other 5% is making it hard to trust her.

I thinks she just wants that 6" long thing in my pants-
the checkbook