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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: February 13, 2018 09:39PM

Just got accepted to the University of Colorado School of Medicine! This was my number one choice all along and I couldn't be more stoked! Thanks for the support everyone.

On top of that, DW and I were talking about the church last night and she is willing to study the history of the church with me as long as I still attend church with her at least an hour a week. This is quite the leap and I'm pumped about it.

BUT, I want to be sure to take it slow and not scare her off, suggestions on good, church approved sources that are remarkably detailed with accurate history? LDSdotorg essays are a good place to start but any other recommendations?

(Easily and Free-ily accessible would be nice)

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: February 13, 2018 09:40PM

Congratulations, VERYmightybuffalo!!!

:D :D :D

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Posted by: Darren Steers ( )
Date: February 13, 2018 09:56PM

Congrats. Still take it slow though, you don't want to spook your wife. Mormons are easy to spook with truth and facts.

I'd suggest "Rough Stone Rolling", or "In Sacred Loneliness" as reasonable books to read together. See how they are received and see where the discussions take you.

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: February 13, 2018 10:00PM

I agree-take it slow. Medical school is all the stress you need right now.

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 07:59AM

Yes, though considered an apologetic, "Rough Stone Rolling" raised more questions for me than it answered. It was the springboard for my research into, and away from, Mormonism.

Ironically, it was recommended to me by a member of the bishopric in my wife's ward with the hope that it would quell any doubts about converting.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: February 13, 2018 09:57PM


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Posted by: angela ( )
Date: February 13, 2018 10:07PM

CONGRATS MB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't just be a doctor, though, be a good doctor.

Yes, there is a difference for those of us who have spent a great deal of time being a patient.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: February 13, 2018 10:22PM

Fantastic! I echo those who say go slow and easy. In Sacred Loneliness might be a good choice to start, if she's willing.

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: February 13, 2018 10:23PM

May I reccomend "A history of Joseph Smith by his Mother"

The revised edition by Scott and Maurine Proctor is excellent as it has better footnotes and references.

Don't skip the introduction. You'll learn the though Brigham banned the first edition, two apostles with the endorsement of two church presidents revised the book.

Hyrum's son and church president Joseph F Smith endorsed the history and it was published in serial format in the church's Improvement Era magazine.

So the book is not anti mormon and has church endorsement.

What will you learn?

Joseph told his family about the inhabitants of the Americas, their customs, cities, farming, warfare etc long before the Book of Mormon.

Joseph and Emma stole a horse and buggy the night Joseph received the plates. Did the church ever teach Emma was with him?

You'll read the Visions of Joseph Smith Senior that are remarkably like the visions of Lehi but part of the Smith family history long before the book of mormon was written.

The recommended edition includes the various accounts of the first vision in the notes.

Granted there is a lot of positive church history there, but I feel just enough interesting things to cast some doubts.

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Posted by: pugsly ( )
Date: February 13, 2018 10:24PM

Congrats!

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: February 13, 2018 10:26PM

That's good.

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Posted by: paisley70 ( )
Date: February 13, 2018 10:27PM

Congrats. It will be high times my friend, high times. After taking edibles a few times you will want nothing to do with the LDS church. Slip your wife a cookie and have a deep conversation. Just don't overdo it. Time will stand still!

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 05:30AM

Yeah, I love when time stands still. That cookie idea just might work hahah!

If I lived in Denver, I'd prolly spend all my allowance on chocolates.

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Posted by: primarypianist ( )
Date: February 15, 2018 03:53PM

I would definitely try some edibles. Cannabis is awesome and it definitely makes you think about things differently. My husband and I have very deep conversations while high. I love it!!

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: February 13, 2018 10:27PM

Congratulations, Mightybuffalo! You are going to love Denver.

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Posted by: Elyse ( )
Date: February 13, 2018 11:14PM

CONGRATULATIONS !

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Posted by: anon 4 good reason ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 01:00AM

Don't eat the Rocky Mountain oysters. I did once and it didn't end well for me. OMG. Never again.

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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 03:07AM

Congratulations! Sounds like things are changing for the better!

Glad your wife is being reasonable.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 04:03AM

Congratulations!

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Posted by: Aquarius123 ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 04:42AM

That's wonderful news, mighty! I hope everything works out well for you and your wife!

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 05:23AM

Best of luck, I wish you all success with your DW!

But may I suggest you walk slowly and lightly with facts about the church? This process is a minefield for a marriage. You never know when she may stiffen, bolt, and turn against you.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for studying one's way out. My wife couldn't cope with it, and dug in her heels. Not saying this is what your DW will do, but be super careful of her feelings at every step, and back off if (when?) her emotions stir up. I doubt you wish to push to conflict. Take the long view. My two rupees.

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Posted by: Gatorman not logged in ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 07:03AM

Two suggestions. The church essays on their own web site are the place to start. I sense your wife would be sensitive to polygamy issues. Can she really believe a rock in the hat? Go to church with her. How about shadowing physicians in Provo?

Gatorman

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 09:06AM

That IS great news. Congratulations!

However...I still want to know what happened with the SP meeting...? :)

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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 11:08AM

Hie,

The SP meeting was moved to tonight until I remembered DW and I have a valentines date planned so I told them we couldn't make it. Still no word on when they want to reschedule.

Seriously guys? You want me to forfeit my Valentine's day for a meeting? Think about that before sucking the lifeblood out of our marriage please.

Will update after the meeting happens

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 11:10AM

I don't want you to forfeit your date, though the church leaders would :)

I don't want you to have to go at all!

But I do hope you return & report.

We're all concerned about you, buff!

Have a great date night.

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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 11:11AM

Haha I know you don't Hie, that comment was directed at the SP, not you!

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 12:01PM

I know :)

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Posted by: BrightAqua ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 12:14PM

Does the SP lurk here? ;-)

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Posted by: numbersRus ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 12:11PM

Wow, moving up the meeting to Valentines Day?? That is just wrong. Gotta wonder if their anxious to head of apostasy, not a calling. Tread lightly.

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Posted by: Gatorman not logged in ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 10:40AM

Buff

There are some things you haven’t mentioned. One, is your wife in school pursuing a useful degree? If she isn’t when you get to Denver encourage her to do so. This adds some element of desired birth control and out of the BYU shadow she may develop a different world view. Second, when are you planning to move? If you go in April you can shadow UC docs....

Gatorman

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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 11:10AM

Gatorman,

DW already graduated BYU and has an awesome full time job that already OK'ed her transferring to CO. That being said, she is going to begin studying for the LSAT this summer and hopes to attend CU's law school while I finish my MD.

Second, I already have a summer job lined up in Cali to make some good money before starting school. Won't be moving to CO until the end of July.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 12:32PM


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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 12:54PM

mightybuffalo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Second, I already have a summer job lined up in
> Cali...

If you're going to be anywhere near San Diego, and want to sneak out for lunch, let me know -- on me :)

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: February 16, 2018 12:34AM

MB, consider visiting the Utah Lighthouse bookstore, on S W Temple near 1300 S. They have a lot of material, some of which is purely secular, and more that treats LDS from more conventional Christian standpoints. As you feel out her points of resistance, you might want to approach LDS from a mix of secular and religious angles.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 10:43AM

Now you will have to live in the people's republic of Boulder .... And you will love it.

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Posted by: numbersRus ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 12:09PM


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Posted by: Babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 11:24AM

Take it easy on the edibles. Might go well with documentaries like http://southpark.cc.com/clips/104253/joseph-smith-part-1

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 02:13PM

I just won the officer rubber band archery Olympics. Gold medal.

Great news about med school. Now find a hot nurse in year 2 for a pokey.

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 02:14PM

DW is just afraid of the unknown --- living without thinking the mormon God is monitoring like the NSA and scared of loosing the community feel that church surrounds you with.

It's not hard to see past lies if you can get out of the bubble.

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Posted by: Gatorman not logged in ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 02:32PM

Buff

Since your bride is interested in law she may find this book of interest

American Fraud: A Lawyer’s Case Against Mormonism

Gman

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Posted by: perdition ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 02:33PM

One further book suggestion-
'Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith' by Linda King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery. The book details Joseph’s many polygamous alliances, his repeated lies to Emma about those marriages, and her conflicts with his plural wives. The book also makes it clear how Emma felt about Brother Brigham...

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Posted by: sd ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 02:56PM

on your tremendous accomplishment. I suspect a side benefit will be that the likelihood of your wife jumping ship just went down considerably. She's not gonna want to give up the chance to be Mrs. Dr. MightyBuffalo

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Posted by: Darren Steers ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 03:17PM

Since his wife has her eyes on becoming a lawyer in her own right, I'm thinking she isn't as tied to the idea of being Mrs Dr Mightybuffalo as many typical Mormon brides may be.

I'm actually thinking that she is likely to exit to Mormon cult in her own right given time. She seems too smart, too ambitious and too interested in bettering herself to fit the Mormon woman mold.

If Mightybuffalo plays his cards right, and slowly, he'll realistically get what he wants here.

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Posted by: Free Man ( )
Date: February 15, 2018 11:21PM

Don't think she wants to be a lawyer married to a janitor.

Women are generally unattracted to lower earning guys, even if they're doing well themselves.

Here's a study showing that better educated women still prefer higher-earning husbands.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/better-educated-women-still-prefer-higher-earning-husbands

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: February 16, 2018 12:38AM

Conversely, the higher the education a woman has, the lesser her chances for attracting a well educated husband. Men are still to this day intimidated by powerful, well educated women - especially in the bedroom.

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Posted by: Jealous? ( )
Date: February 16, 2018 06:11AM

Got a source for this claim? Or is just your opinion?

When I was single in Washington DC, I met several woman who claimed men didn't like smart women, themselves in particular. No, it wasn't that I didn't like smart women; it's that I don't like woman who aren't as smart as they think they are. Women who make ridiculous claims, and wrongly attribute their lack of romance to their "intellect" rather than their abrasive personalities.

This actually reminds me of a funny joke: a guy was trying to decide who he should ask to marry him. He'd been involved with a a doctor, a lawyer and a professor. After giving it a lot of consideration and decided to marry the one with the biggest boobs.

Men and women don't necessarily find the same things attractive in the opposite sex. And just because they aren't interested in a specific woman doesn't mean they are intimidated by her.

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 03:55PM

but I see a few up there that sound really good. ISL blew my mind and was so depressing, I had to stop reading it. My TBM daughter asked me if it would bother her if she read it and I honestly stated, "Yes, it would." I have Mormon Enigma, but haven't read it. I have such a hard time reading anything Mormon.

I have to get my daughter the one above about Joseph Smith written by his mother. She wanted a book about JS that was church approved, but realistic. She saw my book "No Man Knows My History," which I also haven't read and asked about it and I was honest and told her I didn't think she should read it.

To me, it sounds like the history of JS by his mother is the one to start with. Wait, wait--whatever gatorman said to read. My memory is not working at the moment. Oh, the essays! I agree. Have her read the essays first.

That's great about getting accepted in Colorado. I lived there a WHOLE year with my boyfriend in Longmont. I loved it. He may move back there after he retires (any time now) as his son lives there. I'd love it if he did. it was a great place to live.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2018 03:57PM by cl2.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 03:57PM

Our parents all tried to tell us so many things about life, but we had to discover it on our own for it to count. Your wife will need to find the truth on her own now for it to count for her. If she is TBM she has done exactly as expected and told to all these years. From here on out, she just might become as obsessed with thinking for herself as the rest of us have. Owning your self is intoxicating and addictive. Funny how we all thought we were thinking more clear than anyone else when we were still TBM--at least I did. It was an odd relief to finally realize I knew nothing.

Congratulations.

The BoM is the corner-stone of the Mormon church by which even their prophets admit that the church stands or falls on that foundation. A few chapters on dark skin curses, elephants, horses and chariots, wars with millions of soldiers . . .the "most correct book ever" which has been corrected non-stop since it was first published, is a good place to start.

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Posted by: Mother Who Knows ( )
Date: February 15, 2018 05:38AM

I like the BOM idea. Could you possibly promise your wife to spend as much time reading the BOM together, as reading the other stuff? All the reading would be at home, on your own schedule.

I think your promise to your wife that you will attend church for an hour every week will be difficult to keep--maybe for both of you--when you are in medical and law school. My TBM son-in-law went to medical school, and he couldn't have a Sunday calling, because he often had to study. The ward made him YM sports director, or something like that. I know that medical residents are often scheduled for a Sunday rotation.

More important that helping your wife study, is to help her follow her own heart, and pay attention to her gut feelings. Mormon conversions are a result of intensive PR and manipulation. Mormon testimonies are based on emotions. Meet her on that level.

Listen more than talk!

Show her a great time on Saturdays and Sundays (before and after meetings). Promise her you will not interfere with her church attendance, or give her a hard time. In return, she needs to not give you a hard time, either.

My husband made life so pleasant, and we did such a variety of activities, that our children and I didn't want to leave all the fun to go sit in 3 hours of meetings. When we were at church, all we could think about is the fun we were going to have when it was over. He would often have the barbecue heated up, and some of the dinner ready for us, when we came back home. That is powerful stuff!

It seemed normal and right, for me to choose my husband (and family togetherness) over church.

If my husband had gone to church with me every Sunday, I would not have missed him. I would not have been marginalized as "the wife of an inactive elder." I would not have been excluded from the social life, which was dominated by couples. I would not have witnessed how nasty Mormons can be towards someone who is inactive. I saw how they harassed my husband, and plotted behind his back to force him to go to church. His parents were especially awful, and they blamed ME for his falling away.

How will she see reality, if you keep putting on an act?

Congratulations on med school. Moving is a perfect opportunity to make a fresh start. I'm so happy for both of you, that you will be going to a school other than a Mormon school. You will LOVE it!

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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: February 15, 2018 03:37PM

That is a really good point! They say distance makes the heart grow fonder, yeah?

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Posted by: perky ( )
Date: February 14, 2018 04:24PM

How about the historical version of the B of M that says, "principle" ancestors of the Am Indians was changed to "among" the ancestors... why was it changed? https://www.deseretnews.com/article/695226008/Debate-renewed-with-change-in-Book-of-Mormon-introduction.html

Why doesn't anyone talk about Lamanites anymore. What happened to that huge program?

How about the church essays. Especially the one about race where the throw Brigham under the bus. https://mormonessays.com/

This one is good too. Many a TBM is out due to the Book of Abe. http://utlm.org/onlineresources/nytimes1912papyrus.htm

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Posted by: Babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: February 15, 2018 02:01AM

I find it interesting that the BoA was considered solid as of 1967, given the 1912 evidence. They found the papyri and were sure modern Egyptologists would confirm the truth of the BoA. They were let down again. Which is what happens when all lessons fall down the memory hole. You keep doing the same stupid things.

Hokey belief systems are okay as long as they’re internally self consistent. Mormonism is anything but, which is its biggest problem. No belief is worth having to lie to make it work.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: February 15, 2018 02:07AM

Whoa! Many congratulations!

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Posted by: Buffalo Hunter ( )
Date: February 15, 2018 06:35AM

If your wife is TBM, then she's probably not worried about what you want her to read, because she knows the BOM is twoo, and will reel you back in.

Also, how many married seniors are trying to get into med school, and have now been accepted at Colorado, and who's wife has already graduated and has a good job but wants to go to law school do you think there are at BYU? That in addition to all the other info you've posted, you might as well post under your real name or student ID.

If her reading plan for you fails, or you push her too hard, she may run right back to the bishop. "Have 'em read the BOM" is textbook LDS 101.

I'd tread much more carefully between now and graduation if I were you.

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Posted by: perdition ( )
Date: February 15, 2018 09:23AM

Yes, that seems like a wise strategy. Might be better to sow the seeds of doubt slowly...

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Posted by: bobofitz ( )
Date: February 15, 2018 11:49AM

I’m afraid it’s too late for our young friend to STFU. As you have pointed out, much unique personal info has already been disclosed and with thousands and thousands of people willing to out him, I will be happily surprised if one of the many lurkers does not. I’ve personally been cringing at each new personal fact he has been revealing. I hope for the best.

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Posted by: Honest TBM ( )
Date: February 15, 2018 11:20AM

Now that you will be attending an hour per week we can flood our eyes with tears of joy that you will soon get yourself better freed from the chains of the deceivers.

I want to bear you my testimony of the importance of the sacred Kinderhook Plates in helping gain a truthful testimony of the truth. For this I share with you the sacred words of the holy prophet Joseph Smith that were shared in the sacred History of the Church volumes for which we have recorded so much of the sacred canonized scriptures in the beloved Doctrine and Covenants.

"Comment of the Prophtet on the Kinderhook Plates.

I insert fac-similes of the six brass plates found near Kinderhook, in Pike county, Illinois, on April 23, by Mr. Robert Wiley and others, while excavating a large mound. They found a skeleton about six feet from the surface of the earth, which must have stood nine feet high. The plates were found on the breast of the skeleton and were covered on both sides with ancient characters.

I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the Ruler of heaven and earth."

You don't have to take my word for this. But you can find the reference on this from a beloved website on the Lord's holy university's web servers.

https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/volume-5-chapter-19
https://byustudies.byu.edu/history-of-the-church

If you mightybuffalo can gain a super strong testimony that the account in the "History of the Church" is true then I think we'll be able to get you re-assimilated into the Church and you can be done with all the anti-Mormon way of thinking and you can focus your life on assimilation activities, such as scrubbing chapel toilets so Heavenly Father can save money by not hiring janitors, instead of going to medical school. For example, did you know that some anti-Mormons think that the earth's temporal existence might actually end up being more than 7000 years? OMG how apostate and thank goodness for the glorious doctrines that help settle what is truth vs. what is delusional crap. See http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/77/6#6 and remember that D&C is not an abbreviation of "Delusions & Crap" but "Doctrines & Covenants" because of how sacred those doctrines, such as the age of the earth, are considered and how important the covenants of honesty/integrity are between the members and leaders where the leaders have such a tremendous responsibility to be completely honest/transparent about everything to the members who put their trust in them.

I suggest that you and your wife thoroughly read this article too. It will show you how strong the gift of discernment was about the Kinderhook Plates in the 1960s that the Brethren allowed this article to be published. I especially love the last paragraph and say AMEN bigtime on it - "... all the world is invited to investigate the truth which has sprung out of the earth not only of the Kinderhook plates, but of the Book of Mormon as well."

https://archive.org/stream/improvementera6509unse#page/n21/mode/2up
https://archive.org/stream/improvementera6509unse#page/n57/mode/2up
https://archive.org/stream/improvementera6509unse#page/n59/mode/2up
https://archive.org/stream/improvementera6509unse#page/n61/mode/2up


In continuing my studies of this beloved ancient record I found an article titled "Kinderhook Plates Brought to Joseph Smith Appear to Be a Nineteenth-Century Hoax" in the 1981 Ensign.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1981/08/kinderhook-plates-brought-to-joseph-smith-appear-to-be-a-nineteenth-century-hoax?lang=eng

I have to admit that the word "hoax" isn't one I was taught about growing up in the Church through its beloved Correlation program as the things I learned were mostly about being obedient and sacrificing for the leaders. I'd go look up this word "hoax" in the dictionary but I'm out of time now. I got to go scrub some toilets at the chapel and do other things that the leaders keep me so busy doing which leaves me little time to really investigate anything. So my guess is that this "hoax" word must mean something about it being so super awesome, spiritual, and wonderful just as the previous articles mentioned as our leaders have been so full of the gifts of discernment :)

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Posted by: Honest TBM ( )
Date: February 15, 2018 11:49AM

1. Help your wife gain a strong appreciation for the importance of the "History of the Church" volumes in the development of the Church and its doctrines. Before you even mention the word "Kinderhook" I think its vitally important that you strongly establish this foundation. Otherwise she might be dismissive of the "History of the Church" too easily and the truth won't prevail as easily :(

2. Read that History of the Church, Volume 5, Chapter 19, page 372 reference on the Kinderhook Plates. Ask her questions like these:
a. Who translated a portion of the Kinderhook Plates? The beloved prophet Joseph Smith who would never lead us astray on anything :)
b. Did it say "looked at" or "translated"? Answer: translated; that is much different than "looked at" as it denotes the power of God and careful examination using the powers of being a mighty Seer.
c. Whose history is contained in the Kinderhook Plates? Answer: the person whose remains were found with these sacred plates.
d. Who were some of the ancestors of this person whose remains were found with these sacred plates? Ham and Pharoah.
e. What role did this person have? They had a kingdom.
f. Who did they get their kingdom from? The ruler of heaven and earth.
g. What was found on the breast of the skeleton of this person? The sacred Kinderhook Plates.
h. What was on both sides of the Kinderhook Plates? ancient characters

3. Before reading any other articles it would be helpful to help her get some background on the history of the Improvement Era, how the Brethren micromanaged its content, and share some tidbits about who the Brethren, especially David O. McKay, were during the early 1960's.

4. Read the 1962 article in the "Improvement Era" together very thoroughly. Be sure to emphasize that last paragraph in how in 1962 there was a debate over whether or not the Kinderhook Plates were true with the believers saying they were true and the anti-Mormons claiming it was a hoax.

5. After you have done #1-4, and not until then, I recommend you stay away from any articles from the 1980s and beyond about the Kinderhook Plates. Don't forget "milk before meat" ;)

6. Read that August 1981 Ensign article right after you remind her again strongly of how important the "History of the Church" and "Improvement Era" have been throughout church history in setting the foundation that the Brethren have the gifts of the discernment and that they are holy Seers.

Assuming you do all this and get a testimony that the Kinderhook Plates are true then may I be the first to welcome you to the club of people who believe that the Church is the most honest/transparent organization ever.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: February 15, 2018 04:34PM

I thought you were going to say you finally resigned or something like that, but the school thing might be an ok thing too.

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Posted by: GQ Cannonball ( )
Date: February 15, 2018 05:05PM

It's provocative and powerful...just have her read the "modern translation" of D&C 132, courtesy of this board's contributor that goes by "William Law." I've held onto this and have opened many a person's eyes just with it....

---------

D&C 132 Modern Translation:

1.Joseph, you wanted to know how I, God, let a whole bunch of ancient guys have a multiple wives and mistresses.

2.So I, God, will tell you why.

3.Get ready for what I’m going to tell you; because once I tell you this secret then you’ll be required to do it for yourself as well.

4.I’m telling you about a thing I call a “new and everlasting covenant”, and if you don’t do it, then I will send you straight to hell forever.

5.You’ll only be blessed by following what I tell you to do. To receive specific blessings there are specific commandments required.

6.I came up with the “new and everlasting covenant” to have glory, and if you don’t follow it, I’ll send you to hell.

7.Anytime people make a promise, it has to go through Joseph Smith because only he has a special power that I gave to only him. Only one person on the entire earth at a time can have this special power, and only through him can contracts like marriage carry on after dying and coming back to life.

8.God has a house of order, and not a house of confusion.

9.God won’t accept anything not done in his name.

10.God won’t take anything he doesn’t ask for.

11.God wouldn’t tell you this thing if it wasn’t the law of God.

12.You can’t live like God or with God if you don’t do what I say.

13.God doesn’t care who you are, a king or a pope, if you don’t follow my word through Joseph Smith, they will be thrown down and God will not resurrect you.

14.Everything I, God, don’t like will be destroyed.

15.If a man marries a wife they won’t be together when they die if they are married by any other power than the power I give to Joseph Smith.

16.They’ll never get married again in heaven. They will be servants to the far worthier followers of Joseph Smith.

17.These servants didn’t obey me, so they will remain damned forever, serving as angels to those who actually become gods through their obedience.

18.If a man marries a woman and promises that he’ll be with her forever, it’s not true because they weren’t married by Joseph Smith and his power. I won’t let them into my kingdom because I told them what to do and I only reward the obedient.

19.If Joseph Smith, who I gave my power to, marries a man and woman together they will be amongst the first to be resurrected. They will become gods and reign over kingdoms and powers of the universe forever. Then they can commit any sin, except for murdering an innocent person, and they will still become gods. That bond, which Joseph Smith puts on them, is so powerful that even God and his angels can’t break or renege on the promise. This blessing is to have many children throughout all eternity.

20.Then they will be gods, because they live and multiply children forever. They will be above everyone else, and everyone is subordinate to them. They will be gods because they have all power and even the mighty angels must obey and serve them.

21.However, if you don’t do this thing I’m about to tell you, I won’t make you an all-powerful god.

22.Receiving this godhood, and having an ever increasing number of children and power over others, is very hard to obtain because I’m very restrictive and demanding about obedience to me. Most people will never receive it because they don’t accept the real me or understand how I really am.

23.But if you accept me as I really am, I’ll give you power to procreate forever and complete power over others. That’s what I’m doing now, and you can do it too.

24.Eternal life is to really know and accept God and Jesus Christ, so obey this thing I tell you that you must do.

25.It’s easy to die when you don’t listen to me or do what I tell you to do.

26.If a man and woman are married by Joseph Smith, they can commit all kinds of sins, even blasphemies. If they don’t murder an innocent person, God will turn their souls over to Satan to punish them until the first part of the resurrection when they will come back to life and be made gods to have all power and be able to procreate forever.

27.If you do this thing and reject it, or speak against it, that is the only unpardonable sin. You will be cast out and be damned forever.

28.I’m God, and I’ll tell you about this law of the Holy Priesthood that’ been in existence longer than the world has existed.

29.Abraham got all his spiritual commandments this same way; by revelation. He has already been made an all powerful god, sitting on a throne just like God’s.

30.Joseph, you’re a direct descendant of the prophet Abraham, and he was given a promise that all his offspring would be like the number of stars in the sky or the sands of the beach—there would be so many of them that you couldn’t possibly count them all.

31.Joseph, God gives you that same promise because Abraham was your ancestor and he promised to obey this same secret teaching. It’s also how God is glorified by men.

32.So, do the same thing Abraham has done, have many wives and children and then you will be made a god as well.

33.If you don’t do it, you won’t be saved and you won’t become a god like Abraham.

34.God told Abraham to do it, so his wife Sarah gave her slave Hagar to him as a second wife. She did it because it was the law. Hagar had many offspring because of that coupling and it helped fulfill the promise from God to Abraham that he would have many descendants.

35.Did Abraham do anything wrong? I say “no” because I’m God, and I’m the one who told him to do it.

36.Abraham was commanded by me to murder his son for my pleasure. Even though it is already commanded somewhere else that, “thou shalt not murder”, Abraham still wanted to do it and I considered it righteousness.

37.Abraham procreated with mistresses and I counted it as righteousness as well, because I gave those mistresses to him to have children with. It was a gift for doing what I told him to do. Isaac, his son, and Jacob, his grandson, did the same thing in taking multiple wives and mistresses. So I allowed them to become gods on thrones like my own, to continue to procreate forever, and have others serve them. They are not angels, they are gods.

38.David, Solomon, Moses, and many other s have had many wives and mistresses. Men have done it since the beginning of the world, but they didn’t sin because I told them to do it.

39.I gave David all his wives and mistresses through Nathan the prophet. Other prophets also had this power. David never sinned having all those wives and mistresses until he murdered Uriah so he could sleep with his wife. David will never become a god because of that one sin.

40.I am the Master your God, and I give to Joseph Smith, Jr. the power to restore all things, including marriage to a multiplicity of wives and mistresses. Ask for anything you like to Joseph Smith, and I will give it to you.

41.Joseph, you have asked me about adultery to understand if you have committed it. If a man takes an additional wife in the “new and everlasting covenant” and she has sexual relationships with another man that I haven’t assigned her to, then that is adultery and she will be destroyed.

42.Even if she hasn’t been initiated into the secret of the “new and everlasting covenant” and she has sex with another man than that is adultery.

43.If her husband vows fidelity to his wife, but has sex with another woman then that is adultery.

44.If she hasn’t had sex with another man, and she knows it, I will tell you, Joseph Smith, the truth of it. They you can take her by the authority of the priesthood and give her to another man who hasn’t committed adultery so that the man can be blessed with many children and rule over them forever.

45.Because I have given you, Joseph Smith, all power and keys of the priesthood to reign over others I will restore every secret thing, like the plurality of wives and mistresses. I will tell you more about it later.

46.Joseph, whatever you bind together on earth will be bound together forever in heaven if you do it in my name. Whatever sin you forgive of people on earth will be recognized as being forgiven in heaven. And whoever you condemn on earth will be condemned by God in heaven.

47.Also, whoever you decided to bless, God will obey and bless them. Whoever you curse, I, God, will curse—this is true because I’m God and I say it.

48.If you, Joseph, want to give a person a gift like an additional wife, than I God will make sure it happens without condemnation in this life or in heaven.

49.I am your personal companion, Joseph Smith, in this life and in heaven for all eternity. In fact, I will promise to make you a god right now, to have eternal procreation with many wives and to have power over others. I will make you a godly throne like Abraham now has.

50.You, Joseph, have sacrificed so much to do what I tell you to do. So, I will forgive every sin you have committed. I will accept you because of your sacrifices like I accepted the sacrifices of Abraham and his son Isaac.

51.Emma Smith, your wife, shall not have extra-marital relationships as I promised to give her before. It was just a test to see if you are willing to sacrifice and let it happen.

52.However, make sure Emma Smith, my servant, accepts all those women and mistresses that I have given to you, Joseph Smith. They are virtuous and pure despite what the world may think. If they aren’t pure, they will be destroyed.

53.I am God, and you will do what I tell you to do. I give Joseph Smith power to rule over many people and many things because he has been faithful over a few things. From here on out, I will make him strong.

54.I command Emma Smith, my servant, to obey, tolerate, and stay with Joseph Smith and no other man. If Emma doesn’t do this, she will be destroyed. I am God who tells her what to do, and if she doesn’t do it, I will personally destroy her!

55.Joseph Smith said he would do anything for Emma, but if she doesn’t follow this thing I command her to do, I will still bless him with one hundred times the number of wives, families, houses, land, children, and many crowns of godhood with eternal procreation on many eternal worlds.

56.I command Emma to forgive Joseph of his wrongdoings, only then will I forgive her, because Emma has wronged me, God, and I will make her happy and a better person.

57.I say that Joseph should hold onto all his property because any enemy might come and destroy him if he doesn’t. Satan seeks to destroy him, but I will guard him as I did Abraham until I can make him an all-powerful god with eternal procreation.

58.To talk a little about the laws of the priesthood, there are many things I could say.

59.Joseph Smith has been called and given the gifts of the keys and powers just like Aaron the brother of Moses. This power is that according to me, Joseph is incapable of sin and whatever he wants to happen I will make sure it happens.

60.I don’t want anyone to say anything bad about Joseph because I will back him up, because he will sacrifice what I ask of him so that he can get rid of his wrongdoing.

61.Also, according to this law of the priesthood, if a man marries a virgin and desires to marry another one, he can have her provided she is a virgin and no other man hasn’t claimed her first. I will back up that man and not consider it a sin, and I will not count it as adultery because I gave the extra wives to him.

62.Even if I give him ten virgins, it’s not adultery and I won’t count it as sin because it falls under the law of the priesthood.

63.However, if any of the ten virgins he marries sleeps with another man, she has committed adultery and will be destroyed because they belong to him so that he can have many children. We, The Gods, promised it to him before the world was created so that he could become a god too and procreate forever and fill many worlds with the souls he fathers. I do this so God’s work of populating worlds can be fulfilled and his children will glorify him.

64.If a man has a wife and he teaches her this secret law of the priesthood, she is commanded to believe it and help him in any way to accomplish it. If she doesn’t, she will be destroyed because I God want it for the man that I might be honored.

65.I’m sure Joseph Smith will follow this new secret law since he follows everything I tell him to do, but if Emma doesn’t follow she will become the wrongdoer since she chooses not to believe it. If she doesn’t accept it, than Joseph isn’t required to have her permission or help to do it.

66.I will tell you more about this secret law later, but for now you know enough to get started. I am God, Alpha and Omega—and I say it’s true. The end.

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: February 16, 2018 12:26AM

"Hagar had many offspring because of that coupling"

I remember that Hagar was driven away from Sara's camp while pregnant with Abraham's child, so the "many offspring" she bore must have been by other baby daddies, and since she was already sealed to Abe, they were all bastards. 'Course, they will be Abe's in eternity.

And shouldn't Hagar have been destroyed, for having sex with other men she was not sealed to by priesthood authority? (D & C 132:41) If she had been, would there today be any Arabic peoples on the earth?

Or maybe she will be destroyed in eternity, Yeah, that's the ticket...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2018 01:04AM by hello.

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: February 16, 2018 01:20AM

"46.Joseph, whatever you bind together on earth will be bound together forever in heaven if you do it in my name. Whatever sin you forgive of people on earth will be recognized as being forgiven in heaven. And whoever you condemn on earth will be condemned by God in heaven.

47.Also, whoever you decided to bless, God will obey and bless them. Whoever you curse, I, God, will curse—this is true because I’m God and I say it.

48.If you, Joseph, want to give a person a gift like an additional wife, than I God will make sure it happens without condemnation in this life or in heaven.

49.I am your personal companion, Joseph Smith, in this life and in heaven for all eternity. In fact, I will promise to make you a god right now, to have eternal procreation with many wives and to have power over others. I will make you a godly throne like Abraham now has."

So El/Hay Soos made Joe a god, and promised to be his companion, and yet, in Carthage jail, Joe could neither bring the Nauvoo Legion, nor fight off the militia. Not by word or deed, or priesthood power.

Is there no help for the widow's son?

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Posted by: Free Man ( )
Date: February 15, 2018 11:08PM

My problems had little to do with history or specific doctrine.

You might discuss the nature of faith. Faith is the practice of choosing what you want to believe, and ignoring any contrary views. How can you say it is true if you have to ignore other viewpoints?

You are also only to share stories with the desired outcome. Rarely does anyone share stories of blessings or prayer not working, or leaders being wrong.


You will study science. Scientists form a hypothesis, then conduct experiments and collect data. If they acted as we do in church, they would discard the data that doesn't support their theory. But that is considered fraudulent.

In church we preach honesty while we encourage lying.

Your wife will study law. In the courtroom, can we choose the desired verdict in advance, and restrict contrary evidence? Then pretend we achieved justice?

If you need faith in church, why not faith in everything? Plenty of scams to invest in.

How about the notion of free agency, which is very important. We're supposedly choosing the Celestial Kingdom. Ask her exactly what she will be doing there. How about polygamy. Is that what she's after?

If she doesn't know what she's choosing, how is it free agency?

I assume the CK will be endless church stuff. Does that excite her? Church is where you do stuff you don't like, to get the eternal reward, of church stuff you don't like.

We are told we can't be with families in the CK. Why not? Why can't those in the CK come visit the lower kingdoms?
And if you're all building worlds, how will you stay together?

And free agency means you can choose your path without punishment. I guess you are free to choose with a gun to your head, but most don't consider that freedom.

Likewise, in church there is fear of rejection if you don't "freely" choose the CK and church participation. My cousins wife divorced and took their 5 kids when he quit going to church.

So are church members actually choosing, or just living in fear of rejection, which at one time meant death, to be separated from the tribe.

Which is why we try to get children to commit at age 8, when they are completely dependent on parents for survival.

How about our leaders. We're told sometimes they are wrong because they speak as men and not prophets. We are to pray and get inspiration to find out which of their words are inspired. So why do we need them? Why not cut out the middleman?

How about families? They are supposedly the greatest thing, yet when some leave church, family rejects them. Parents choosing cult over kids.

Is she afraid of family rejection? How would her family react if she quit church?

How would she react if her kids quit church? Would she still love them? If so, why would she be afraid of her parents?

Subconsciously, her beliefs have more to do with family or peer pressure, than reason or history or doctrine.

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Posted by: BYU Boner ( )
Date: February 15, 2018 11:34PM

Awesome, MB!!! Big bro-hugs, high fives, and lots of “fuck the Morg” to you! The Boner

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: February 16, 2018 12:35AM

Mazel Tov!

:)

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: February 16, 2018 12:42AM

If your wife is planning on law school she'll be required to use heavy critical thinking skills. That's what is taught in law school. She'll be able to separate the fact from fiction in no time regarding church teachings and doctrine if she hasn't already.

That was when I really nailed it, was during my studies in law school. I read university holdings on church history and that literally opened my eyes to what the cult had withheld during my formative years and beyond.

It was more than a legal education I received during those years. It was a life lesson.

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