So late last night my TBW brought up the big question. Do you even believe in God. My answer lately has been a big fat lie because I’ve learned she can’t handle the truth. If I tell her I don’t I know it will be the nail in the coffin for her and ammo for all of her family to use against me that I’m this horrible person. Last night she asked well if you believe in god why don’t you pray and teach the kids to pray. I told her not everyone who believes in god prays and I shouldn’t be forced to and I don’t think it’s my job to teach my kids that.

Not sure the best way to go about this. I’m walking on egg shells anytime this shit comes up. Last summer I stopped wearing garments after not going to church for over a year and a half and it caused a huge issue with her and things didn’t get back to normal for about a month.

Tell her you believe in Odin. There is as much evidence for Odin as there is for the God of the Bible. Just tell her she needs to have faith.

God can do anything. He's really terrific. He can even hear your thoughts. So tell her you pray silently to give your god the glory of being a terrific mind reader. Teach your kids how to do it, too. Just more glory going to your god.

P.S. Just don't tell her who your god is.

I pray to Dianna Rigg who played Emma Peel on the 1960's British adventure television series, The Avengers.

Emma Peel was one of my female role models growing up along with Wonder Woman, Wilma Deering, Amelia Earhart, Bessie Coleman, and Hypatia of Alexandria...

Whenever I hear anyone talking about the Avengers movie, I think of the awful, awful movie with Uma Thurman. Also, if anyone asks me if I like the Avengers, I tell them that I like may Avengers mortal and with an English accent.

Well, I idolized Emma Peel because, uh, well, uh, I was 12 at the time, and she was really hot. I was also impressed at the time because she was really smart, clever, athletic, and every bit an equal to John Steed.

Just corroborating Diana Rigg's fundamental hotness in the 1960s ;-)

If "angels are silent notes taking", as goes the hymn, then mortals can be "silent prayers giving". :)

Just tell her you believe in a creator, you just can't define who or what he is and what if anything he really wants us to do.

Hmm. I'd have to disagree with the folks above.

I say tell her the truth. That you don't believe in god.

My wife (who wasn't my wife yet, and who did believe in god at the time) accepted it. And married me anyway.

I don't know how yours will react. But I'm a big fan of honesty, especially since you've already started down that road...

Good luck.

p.s. there are plenty of resources to demonstrate that not believing in god doesn't mean you're a bad person, or you don't have morals, or whatever other nonsense is often brought up. If you'd like some links, let me know.

Personally I look at the discoveries of the Hubble Telescope and the size and scope of the Universe are mind boggling. Perhaps you can convince her with that.

Regarding prayer: You might read up on meditation, like Transcendental Meditation. Some of the benefits of prayer are common to meditation, such as relieving your mind of worries and fears that are out of your control.

Sounds like your approach of dropping one mo thing at a time is working, even though each step comes with pain. She's probably getting reinforcement of her beliefs from family and fellow TBMs.

You might want to suggest that she read Matthew 6, 5-8. That's the one where Jesus says not to make a public show of prayer, but to pray in private.
You don't need to say that you do pray in private --- just make it clear that you think it's best to accept Jesus's own teaching on the subject over any other.
And, as I keep saying, remind her that any further attempts at catching you out in some great apostasy violates her own professed faith. As in the 11th article of her own faith.

I also think fear, not true faith may be in play as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2018 12:31PM by anybody.

Tell her that Values, Principles, (Honesty, Kindness, etc.) are Your top priorities.

Those are passe with almost all Mormons, ya know...

Tell her you believe in Einstein and Sagan's God, aka, Nature and that you don't believe praying to Nature does anything to change Nature. Nature is what it is.
You're not going to change the nature of the cosmos by praying to it. You just have to live by its laws or suffer the consequences.

Tell your wife you are your own special creation. You did not fall off of some conveyer belt. Tell her that you want your children to be their own special creation as well. Otherwise what is the point? To be just another brick in the wall? Or I guess with Mormons that would be another cinder block in the ward house.

The true test of a person is not whether than can follow all the rules, i.e: pray, go to church, read scriptures. But, what will they do, who will they be when there are no rules? Will they still be kind? Will they still understand reciprocity is our greatest asset as humans? Will they still see the value in striving to achieve, to be their best self? And do this simply because they just want to? Instead of being assigned and monitored to be good, obedient people who don't really think for themselves.

Your children get a chance to see someone like you use reason, and think things through, and question, and gathers data, all while still being a great person and Dad. That needs to be not only enough for your wife, she should be celebrating that.

^^^Priceless^^^^

I've always thought my prayers were very personal and I didn't want anyone making fun of them. I refused to pray in church and got called on the carpet by a bishop about it. Tough shit. He told me to practice praying so I would feel comfortable. That wasn't the point.

I never prayed in front of my husband. That is probably why he is still gay (sarcasm). I think I may have said prayers with my kids a few times. I doubt my son prays. i'm sure my TBM daughter prays.

I just don't agree with having to pray in front of people. Your wife can teach the kids to pray. I learned I think in primary, though my mom had us have family prayer every night. Same prayer repeated over and over again. I didn't even say the blessing on meals.

Tell her you believe in god and your god actually created her God, so your god is better then her god.

Mormons always say it's the one true church - their God is best.

How do they know Mormon God is the best God? They feel it and by faith. You also have faith your god is better.

This may at least get her thinking critically about it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2018 03:57PM by perky.

perky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tell her you believe in god and your god actually
> created her God, so your god is better then her
> god.
>
> Mormons always say it's the one true church -
> their God is best.
>
> How do they know Mormon God is the best God? They
> feel it and by faith. You also have faith your
> god is better.
>
> This may at least get her thinking critically
> about it.

No. It will inflame the situation and upset her further. This isn't the high school debate team with 'gotcha!' in effect. This is their marriage and family.

Again, these are not theological conclusions. These are, and always were, always will be, EMOTIONAL DECISIONS.

Remember the burning in the bosom? No intellect required.

I would not discuss your beliefs and practices with your wife. I would just tell her that she is free to teach your children how to pray, and/or they can learn at church if they are attending with her.

^^^^What summer said.

It's likely people will think this is unrealistic. But it's the only way, IMHO.

Mormons don't have marriages between two adults, IME. Elevating the experience by rightfully owning one's piece, and acknowledging one's lack of control over the spouse ('you are free to teach the children how to pray...') is HEALTHY.

These aren't theological arguments. It's all emotion. As it always is wrt religion. Especially in marriage and family.

I think the most important thing in any person’s life is being honest about who they are,to themselves and others. Otherwise they’re denying their fundamental humanity. Which I think will only erode at self esteem and self worth

I think your sense of self worth is worth more than a marriage.

You need to find yourself a good divorce lawyer, because that's what her god is telling her to do if you and her are not on the same page.

The SIGTHTF real soon once she realizes you're no longer a believer. Believe me, that's how indoctrinated she and her family are. You know they're going to turn on you once the cat is out of the bag.

Why drag it out indefinitely?

^^^^Another excellent post of advice.

OP, please listen to this advice, as well as CateS, too. I think one has to be honest, but also wise. You know how LDS are and think about how threatened you likely were at one time (by soon to be apostates).

People do not need to know everything. YOU need to be straight with yourself. But you do not need to put it all out there to be 'honest'.

Like I said, you're entering a much better way of life. But you won't be fused at the hip/one brain with someone again. It can be weird, lonely, exciting, sad, all sorts of emotions.

Know your audience and BE SMART. If you end up not needing a good divorce lawyer, then so be it. But you will feel better knowing you are protecting yourself. Just one of many ways you can make sure YOU are okay. I wouldn't worry about your wife's emotions. Those are way beyond your control.

Remember: people are often 'nice' when you do what they want. Think about what the opposite will look like (when you don't).

God is Nature. Nature is God. Pantheism is easy for any rational person. When you, personally, use the term just equate it with nature. No need for mental gymnastics.

Odds are 99% of the time that no one will ask you how you define the term.

When I say I believe in God, I equate the team with joe pesci. Joe Pesci is God. Can't deny Joe's existence.


HH =)

My wife asks me this question every now and then, and I frequently answer with "Which god?" or "It depends on how you define 'God' because I'm still waiting for something I can, or want, to believe in."

I also vote for honesty here and some dialogue and/or perhaps, some unmormon counseling. I believe that honesty and trust reign supreme in any relationship and I try hard to implement this.

Most of the TBM's in my life are not on the same page with looking at reality. I think that indoctrination, intimidation and fear from their religious rules and doctrine keep them in a distorted bubble and when they hear or see something that doesn't fit with this mind control they are under, they have to shove such information under the rug.

It might be helpful for you, it was for me, to learn about mind control. Steven Hassan is an expert in this field and is easily found on the internet. Mormonism to me fits into the area EASILY as a high demand group and, in my opinion, easily earns the title of a high demand cult. To realize this about the
TBMs in my life made it easier for me to deal with our relationships and, at least in my way of thinking, made me see that until they realize that they are victims of undue influence and then want to change, they will stay captive of this unhealthy and unrealistic situation.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2018 08:39PM by presleynfactsrock.