How have you handled having a TBM wife who wants your daughter baptized? Do you fight it? Is it worth fighting? I mean she’s 7, she doesn’t know what it means. Just that all her friends are doing it in church so it must be fun.

I stopped going to church about 2 years ago now. Not sure the right approach to this since she is my oldest child.

A little different, but...

I married a catholic (had already left the mormons).
She wasn't super-hard-core catholic, but it was her "tradition."

When we had our first child, she wanted to have him baptized (they do infant-sprinkling in the catholic church).

I suggested we wait until the child was old enough to decide for himself whether or not he wanted to be baptized in a church, rather than impose such a thing on him. I suggested age 18, the usual time a child is considered an "adult."

We didn't argue, though we did discuss it at length. For my part, I used the "I was baptized as a mormon as a child, and now really wish I hadn't been" as an argument.

That got through to her. She didn't want to think that, like me, she had been baptized/raised in a cult...but she understood that if the kid later on decided he didn't want to be part of it, he might resent his parents forcing it on him when he was too young to make a choice.

So no baptism.
Same for second child (daughter).
Same for third child (another daughter).

And wife is just fine with that. The older two have no interest in being part of a religion (the youngest daughter is only 2)...and my wife is OK with that, they're kind, honest, intelligent, wonderful kids. Without a church.

Good luck with your situation.

+1
The church tries to get hooks into kids early and have them feel that the church is part of their identity. I would tell my daughter to wait until she is older and sure she wants to be part of the church forever. Forever is a very long time, and people should really take the time before they make that commitment. Have the church BS work against them.
Be respectful to you wife, but also realize that you are helping your daughter from making the same mistake that her mom made. I would let your daughter see that you are not happy about the baptism decision.
Just my $0.02

Your daughter will choose for herself when she is older, whether she is officially baptized at age eight or not. It's not the most crucial decision. I'd be far more concerned about how she will be taught at church that people like her father are bad. You will need your wife's support in helping her to figure out a more nuanced view that the one she hears in Sunday school. That's the discussion you need to have with your wife.

But others see it differently.

Does your wife know where you stand? Would she be open to compromise? Could you say your daughter could wait and decide when she's 18 or at least 12? Does your daughter attend regularly or does she have other places to socialize?

I'd tell a child, "Honey, you mustn't make decisions based on what everyone is doing. That's called peer pressure and it's often a bad thing. You're only seven and not ready to know about choices that will affect your entire life ahead. You're ready to decide about your favorite color or who is your best friend, but only adults should decide about joining organizations which will control and change a whole lifetime and beyond."

Thank you, Cheryl for topping this thread.

My first thought, OP, is, 'So glad we aren't discussing bishop interview!' At least you have years before that, and maybe with current events, it will change.

Are your parents, or your in laws involved in this? I don't know how out numbered you are?

I love this:

"I'd be far more concerned about how she will be taught at church that people like her father are bad."

This is possibly the most painful part of this experience for you, OP. But then, you thought it was a great idea to marry a Mormon and raise your children as LDS for eternity. There's the rub: the thing you thought was so wonderful has now become less so, but you led your family and they trusted you.

Be prepared to be thought of as a loser.

carameldreams Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you, Cheryl for topping this thread.
>
> My first thought, OP, is, 'So glad we aren't
> discussing bishop interview!' At least you have
> years before that, and maybe with current events,
> it will change.
>
> Are your parents, or your in laws involved in
> this? I don't know how out numbered you are?
>
> I love this:
>
> "I'd be far more concerned about how she will be
> taught at church that people like her father are
> bad."
>
> This is possibly the most painful part of this
> experience for you, OP. But then, you thought it
> was a great idea to marry a Mormon and raise your
> children as LDS for eternity. There's the rub:
> the thing you thought was so wonderful has now
> become less so, but you led your family and they
> trusted you.
>
> Be prepared to be thought of as a loser.
The in laws are very much pushing for this including combining a cousin together at the same time so they can fly out and be part of them both. I have an amazing relationship with my daughter and she worships me. I know I could easily convince her not to get baptized but again I just don’t know if it’s worth the fight with the wife. She will still be forced to go to church so she’s going to get the same crap thrown at her if she is baptized or not. My wife has openly admitted that my my kids wouldn’t go to church if they weren’t forced to. But she says it’s because they like me so much and just always want to be around me. She won’t admit it’s because the church is super boring even though they bribe the primary kids with candy and food every Sunday

Thank you, bentaylor for more info. I agree with Cheryl. In laws get no vote. Unfortunately, they know this. That's where expert manipulation comes in.

And it works! More often than not!

I still am grateful you're not in a position to worry about Bishop interviews.

I don't really like the idea of *you* 'convincing' her not to get baptized. See my other OP regarding pressuring kids. :-) I think I get where you're coming from, but to a child, it can be yet another adult in their life telling them what to do. In this case, what not to do.

And, I think of your daughter amongst her peers, feeling very different for not being baptized and what will she say?

Your wife has some odd ideas. I hope kids like their fathers and want to be with them! From what you describe, she uses their affection for you *against* you. That's concerning. But, likely, there's a long list of concerning things and I don't think I'm helping...

Joke with daughter and baptize her in during the evening bath. Oh, you want to get baptized, ok, dump some water, say a magic jingle and poof, the idea of being baptized is a nothing burger. Like it always has been.

Phazer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Joke with daughter and baptize her in during the
> evening bath. Oh, you want to get baptized, ok,
> dump some water, say a magic jingle and poof, the
> idea of being baptized is a nothing burger. Like
> it always has been.

While I love and appreciate the sentiment here, it's also super creepy to have the daughter naked and do these faux rituals. Just like the old temple baptism.

And, it will piss off bentaylor's wife, who is already a woman on the edge and grasping for every fibre of control she can exact over ben with regard to the church.

He has to live in that home. Not us.

BenTaylor asked, "Is it worth fighting?"

No, you don't have to fight. Yes, it is worthwhile to keep your child from being brainwashed under the influence of an evil cult. Remember, Mormonism is an institution that you, yourself, can not tolerate or deal with--and you are a grown man! Don't expect your little helpless child to deal with Mormon creepiness.

I agree that you shouldn't make fun of your wife's religion. Don't argue with her. Give your family all the individual, personal, one-on-one attention, and especially unconditional LOVE, that they will never find in the Mormon church. The more you give to them, the more they will want it in their life.

You can answer questions honestly, carefully and politely.

You can read your daughter Bible stories (if you still believe) and Aesop's Fables, to teach her ethics, justice, fairness, morality, and all that good stuff.

The Mormon cult pretends to be "the best way to raise children", but that is just another lie.

Yes, the Mormon Primary is teaching your daughter (or will in the future) that because YOU don't pay tithing and attend the temple, that all of you are not a "forever family." All of my children were taught that our family members would be alone in the hereafter, where we would "walk past each other as strangers. I, of course, refused to teach that lesson, as a Primary teacher. I also refused to teach that those who were not good Mormons would "burn at the second coming." Some fanatics in our ward referred to tithing as "burn insurance." My children had nightmares from those lessons.

You will feel better if you decide for yourself, exactly where you stand. For example, are you officially "inactive", meaning you are out from under the pressure of paying tithing? If you are completely out, does your wife know this? How is she accepting our non-attendance? I don't know how much you can tell her, or what.

My husband took a stand, and did not support the cult in any way, including paying any money, going to any meetings, our children's performances, talks, Scouts, baptisms, blessings--ZERO. In return for his freedom (which I felt he should have as a human being, anyway) he promised that he would interfere with the children and I attending. He didn't plan anything for those 3 hours on Sunday, or argue, or try to make things difficult. We eventually followed him out, and resigned from Mormonism together.

What you decide to do depends on where you are in the process of escaping the cult. This could be a good opportunity to let everyone know, or at least to open up some good dialog.

To postpone until the child is 18 is a great solution for a lot of mixed-religon couples I know. The Mormon cult does not approve of this, because the odds are that an 18-year-old can think for herself, and is going to have access to the Truth, and will not want to join a controlling cult. This is also the age to be a missionary, and high school graduates are usually eager to go to college or start out with a job, and still play and enjoy their youth.

When my granddaughter was baptized, I celebrated her 8th birthday, helped with her birthday party, gave her a nice gift, etc. For her baptism, I did nothing to support it. Silence.

Had she been my child, I would have tried to prevent it.

Sorry, I type very fast, and ramble while in a hurry.

My husband promised he would NOT interfere with our going to church.

My husband was soccer and baseball coach, and he was active in our children's schools, sports and homework, the paper routes, community activities, etc.

If your wife is going to keep taking her to church whether she’s baptized or not she’ll get just as much indoctrination one way or the other. And if she’s not baptized she will be afraid that she’s doomed if she sins and swipes candy from a sibling or some other grave sin. I know. I had to wait more than 2 months after I turned 8 to get baptized as we were staying with my grandmother while my dad went to summer school at BYU. They made me wait till we were back at my home ward. Then had to wait till the next fast Sunday weekend. I still remember how traumatic it was, even all these years later.

Don’t confuse or scare her like that. Either stop it altogether and get her out or let her play along so it doesn’t make her feel like there’s something wrong with her. Won’t be the deciding factor in whether she grows up brainwashed or not.

Why is your daughter forced to go to church if she doesn't want to? I would never stand for my spouse forcing my kids to go to church if they didn't want to go. I understand that you're trying to keep your marriage going, but I think it's sad if you're so desperate to hold on to your marriage that you're willing to throw your kids under the bus. They should be able to freely choose to go to church or not, just like you choose.

Children that age have to do a lot of things they dont necessarily want to do. At eight I would gladly have stayed home from church school and a lot of other things. Eight year olds dont get to make such decisions. Their parents do. Taking a kid to church isnt child abuse so long as a kids isnt being abused in some way. There is no evidence of that here.It isnt something I would do, but I am not her mother.

The problem is that both parents have equal rights in a child's upbringing. You just cant over rule her without risking your marriage so you need to work out a compromise. If your daughter and her mother really want this and you wont agree, your daughter may come to resent you. That happened to me. My father wouldnt allow me to be baptized. All my friends were Mormon and I attended church. I resented him for making me different and not letting me join. I was baptized when he died. I stopped believing a few years later and now understand his reasoning, but it caused problems between us then. If I had been baptized at 8, it wouldnt have made much difference since I was attending and considered myself a Mormon anyway at the time. I still would have eventually left. I think you need to consider that. If she is baptized, you need to expose her to other views when you can and not let her see you as some sort of infidel. She will get that message at church. Get her to question it. Talk to your wife about that and make sure she doesnt reinforce that idea in your daughter's mind. That seems more important than whether she is dunked.Once I stopped believing, I didnt care that I had been baptized and I walked away. Eventually I resigned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2018 11:10PM by bona dea.

I'd suggest having her baptized in five or six different churches before the mormon baptism. And do them all with her.

This may not help, but it is my experience. I was questioning, though still active, and baptized our daughter at age 8. We left the corporation when she was 9. She has some memories of Mormonism and loves to shock people by telling them she was once a Mormon. It is a bit of a conversation tidbit for her once in awhile. No serious harm done by baptizing her.

Your situation may be different. We do not live in a heavily Mormon area. Good luck which ever way you go.

Personally, I would insist that my child have to wait until they are 18, when they will be able to make that decision on their own as an adult.

following as I am in the same situation. My daughter turns 8 in a few weeks and of course wants to do what every child does, get baptized at 8. I am out of the church and the ex wife is in and is RS president, and I am quite sure this is not somehting we will agree on. Plus my other kids have all been baptized in the church.

I will likely go along to play nice, but for sure when i have the kids I am going to make it clear that they get to make choices and they are not forced to go to church. I want them to have their agency and understand it. When they are with me, we never go to church so they are at least out of the church half of the year.

Its a tough call, but i figure we can cross this bridge and as my kids get into their teens. I will do my best to open their eyes to what the church really is. I'm sure my ex will bring fire and brimstone at that point in time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2018 09:45PM by alaskawild.

alaskawild, what will you do, or since you have teenagers, what do you do about the Bishop interview?

As others mentioned, she isn't old enough to understand why you would not allow baptism. She will only understand that she doesn't fit in with church friends.

I say let her get baptized, and keep teaching her.

After all, the baptism is actually meaningless. Whenever she wants to quit, she can. No police will come to her door to drag her to church. Might be bothered some by members, but I'm bothered by several sales people daily. She can learn how to politely decline. Don't have to be traumatized by it all.

As for her being free to choose, most of us force our kids to go to government schools. And they pledge allegiance to the flag, and do other rituals. None of which is necessary, despite the propaganda that kids will not survive without it.

Kind of like church, actually - our souls will die without it.

"As others mentioned, she isn't old enough to understand why you would not allow baptism. She will only understand that she doesn't fit in with church friends."

Holy shit . . . if this is true, you've got much bigger problems than a baptism. Time to start having real conversations about life ---------- and how, Ebanezar.

She will partially understand as I
did, but if she agrees with her mother and wants to be baptized, she will see Dad as the bad guy. Dad can sit her down and tell her all the problems of the church and she might believe him, but how do you think Mom will react? It could destroy the marriage and the kid will be in the middle. It is a lot more complicated than you make out. Yes, Dad should talk to her, but destroying her beliefs and making her mother the villian isnt going to help. The same thing applies to the mother. Whatever they do, they need to agree and not put the child in the middle.I have been there and it was not a good place.I think the best thing is both being free to discuss their beliefs but not to mock or disparage the other parent or mock their beliefs. Eventually it will be up to the girl

If the child is baptized and confirmed, she is a member until she is exed or resigns. She will always be on the church's radar. If you can get your wife to hold off without creating WWIII, your daughter will be much better off in the long run.

The answer to this is so simple. If your daughter attends church every Sunday, sees all of her peers who she attends with getting baptized, and SHE wants to be baptized...you let her be baptized!! If you plan her on NOT attending church in the NEAR FUTURE...you don't let her be baptized.

To an 8 year old, being baptized has NOTHING TO DO with joining the church, a lifelong commitment, on the rolls forever, blah, blah, blah. All it means to an 8 year old kid is that they get to be dunked in a huge bathtub just like all of their other church friends. No church-going kid wants to be the odd one who doesn't get baptized or who has the weird parent who is making a fuss about it.

This is such a petty thing to draw your line in the sand over...especially if your kid attends every Sunday, she wants to do it, and not doing so will cause animosity between you, her, and your wife. Most everyone on this board has been baptized...and look where we are now.

Back off for now and learn to pick your fights for the bigger things yet to come.