I think there are posters who come to RfM for the sole purpose of pushing their political agendas on unsuspecting inactives, exmos and those who are considering leaving the faith.

The reason I love RfM is because it helped me and many others feel they are not alone is leaving the mormon church and its culture. We are comforted to know that there are others out there who have successfully found new lives away from the mormon church.

Part of leaving a controlling cult is working out a new identity and new attitudes and points of view on issues and life styles.

I'm glad RfM doesn't allow posters to preach about specific religions and they're certainly not allowed to give TBM sermons about coming back to the fold.

I think it's equally unhelpful to try to constantly preach to recovering exmos about specific political issues as if there is only one true appropriate opinion on every topic and as if the thinking has been done. (That's a residual mormon way to reason.)

Providing a link on a subject doesn't help because links almost always present only one side of each issue which doesn't round out complicated topics which might have dozens of legitimate sides to them. And if someone brings up one of these contrasting ideas, they are often attacked by a slew of posters who are constantly ready to call them names and mow them down and trample them in the mire. All of this happens without a real connection to mormonism except that a group of mormons might oppose the opinion in the link or the poster's pronouncement.

I think there is great value in getting out of a cult, recovering from it somewhat, and setting out to form opinions freely, not being forced to swallow opinions just because they're the opposite of what many church leader's favor.

I love it when new posters come to RfM and receive supportive comments that help validate their self worth and their decision to seek freedom.

But I think it's counter productive to come on RfM just to push a political agenda on other posters.

Someone yesterday actually said that supportive comments from strangers are nothing but cliches. Well, that's news to me. I mean it when I say exmos are brave to leave and when I wish them good luck and offer hope and eventual recovery. If someone thinks RfM is cliche, I think they've overstayed their tenure and should back off a bit.

If others are here purely because they want to get in their digs and force political opinions on posters, I think they'd also be wise to back off somewhat.

Let's give recovery a chance to thrive and let's let posters get out there in the nonmo world and make some of their own decisions because guess what?

The thinking hasn't been done, it's always evolving. When that fact ends, we're dead and in the ground.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2018 11:42AM by Cheryl.

Thanks for pointing this out. RfM can be a rough place. It’s easy to forget that not everyone has a thick skin. There are sensitive people here, the kind of people that Mormonism harms, and we need to be more gentle.

RfM is a rough place.....

I am definitely a sensitive one. I would hide forever if society would let me.

Personal political agendas are not the purpose of RfM. It isn't fair that posters must put up with hostility and ridicule when they're trying to deal with finding their own center and just barely beginning to form non-morg enforced opinions.

Again, the thinking has been done is a mormon concept, not an RfM absolutism. There isn't one true way on the face of the earth to think about any political issue or candidate.

Actually, I AM political meat. Just not fresh.

Gee, I thought at times that to fit in here one must openly declare their belief in atheism and positively affirm same-sex and other such such relationships.

Or so it seemed...

Some RfMers sit around waiting to ambush newbies on these issues and think nothing of telling them they must comply. The result? Newbies head for the hills and we're left with only political hacks over running the site.

What is this "belief in Atheism" of which you speak ? Are you trolling ?

Former mormons and religion worshippers can't understand the concept. But unfortunately, some atheists also don't get it if they're out doing missionary work to gain new numbers of non-believers.

By the way, I consider you on the "fresh" side in the way they used to call smart spiffy guys "fresh." I'd all that a complimentary term.

You mean like this ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG8sYuns9Uo

It's ok to be a theist
It's ok to not be a theist

Hardly a troll, but there you go...

It's ok to be an atheist
It's ok to not be an atheist

My parents were Democrats. I was told off a few times for my political views. My boyfriend in college hung up on me when he found out I voted for Jimmy Carter.

I'm still Democrat, but I have more conservative views than many people on this board now. My ex is now a Democrat and he was Republican when I married him.

I find it interesting.

That is because this site is a safe space. A safe space means that people arent allowed to disagree with others when it hurts their feelings. People know this and constantly complain about how things hurt their feelings. Its much easier to call another person a bigot than to engage in an actual discussion. This also reduces the quality of the content on this site to near zero.

so then we are liberal snowflakes ?

So which of the ideas that were denounced as "bigotry" do you think were worthy of "actual discussion?"

Be specific. Which of those ideas do you want to associate yourself with?

FloridaWoman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This also reduces the quality of the
> content on this site to near zero.

I find this comment to be personally incomprehensible.

When I (a nevermo) first connected with this site fifteen years ago (as the result of a Google search for a Mormon-related fact), I was astounded by the quality of "conversation" here, on a variety of levels: intelligent knowledge, insight, cleverness, creativity, caring, and humor (to name just a few).

I found the answer to the original question I had, but I also found a group of really smart and knowledgeable (and often funny!) people who were carrying on conversations with each other which were far more insightful (to name just one attribute) than those in my daily life (among people who were, in many ways, lauded globally for their creativity and insight). I quickly found that I would rather "be" HERE, on RfM, than seated around a coffee table (or wherever) with the usual group of people I knew best in my daily life.

The conversations HERE are BETTER (and if you had my experience, you would say the same thing, too---or I think you would, anyway).

I have no idea how you can possibly say that the "quality of content" here on RfM is "near zero"---because, from my perspective, one week or so of conversation here is equal to about a couple of years of fairly intimate (in a social sense) and uncensored conversations with many people who are nearly universally lauded for their knowledge, creativity, and social insight...whose photos appear on magazine and book covers...and whose published or produced work leads to them being frequently awarded honorary degrees from some of the most prestigious colleges and universities in the world.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2018 04:46PM by Tevai.

And the board is richer because you stayed. Much richer.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And the board is richer because you stayed. Much
> richer.

Thank you, Lot's Wife...

This means the world to me.

:) :) :)

Yes I used to feel that as well. However, in the last 6 months or so there has been a very negative vibe here and after being told one time too many that I needed to leave I did.

Still lurk on occasion but don't seem to be missed or missing much.

It's a shame a few people can spoil a good thing.
And yes a lot of atheists here are downright insulting to anyone who doesn't subscribe to the insulter's identical version of atheism. After a while it just gets old.

To the contrary, RfM Admin freely states this is not a "safe space" in the sense that there can be no disagreement. It is expected, or at least hoped, that most participants will comprehend the main purpose of the board is to welcome, inform and support "those questioning or newly exiting Mormonism". Especially for those who have been there (literally) that would usually equate to being understanding, welcoming and supportive.

But this board is not "therapy" and therefore, by definition, not "safe" for all no matter their circumstance. I remember being taken aback when I first came to RfM when I read a post from CZ (Admin) that said this site is "not Christian-safe". He meant that RfM participants don't step lightly around the beliefs of Christians but rather find them fair game for vigorous debate. If a Christian doesn't care for that, they can easily avoid those types of threads. I used to participate in them quite often as I had rarely encountered that type of interaction before and it was interesting to me. Now, not quite so much, and it's no big deal to just not read or engage if you don't want to.

For general discussions with longer-term exmos or nevermos, or anybody really, there are still instructions, expectations and board guidelines that we are expected to follow. Chief among them are the expectations of courtesy, patience, understanding, remembering our own questions, negative experiences and pain. At least, that is the way I read the purpose and guidelines of this discussion board and my observations throughout my years of reading it.

I see two categories of threads/posts. The first are from those new to RfM, new to questioning or leaving Mormonism, new to being not Mormon or new to wondering what Mormonism is all about. For a variety of reasons, such as family or neighbour/friend connections, nevermos will come here to obtain info about the LDS Church. Of course, everybody in the questioning phase is not in need of personal support. But many of us can remember how it felt to find out the truth about the Mormon Church and many BICs in particular will have many questions and much pain about their discoveries. In general, I see that people in this category are welcomed and helped. Yes, some people aren't as patient as others, which is too bad. Hopefully, other more sensitive souls chime in and provide the support that is such a hallmark of this board. Yes, new posters can be on the sensitive side but so too remain many of us, depending on our experiences and personalities. I don't see anything wrong with that.

The second category is, as some have referenced, those interested in discussing less personal issues, concepts, beliefs, questions. Those threads, depending on subject matter, can be more rollicking, 'tis true.

It's a challenge that some of the same topics that can help people learn to be more objective, examine beliefs, see things from a different angle, are similarly able to sow discord. Politics, for example, would spring to mind.

I try to post with the board's main purpose in mind and try to offer support where I can. I always appreciate a kind word and so pass it on when I can. I try to relate a subject back to Mormonism or at least religion so a discussion doesn't devolve into pure politics or something else not centred on the main topic here.

Cheryl's words are timely. I agree with the sentiment. It's not helpful to berate people for their opinions and differences. That tends to entrench a person's thoughts rather than giving incentive for further thinking. And it can also be most unhelpful to newbie posters who are mainly interested in talking about leaving Mormonism and the impact of that on their lives.

We don't have to tiptoe around each other. Generally I think that if someone enters the fray on a thread that is more a debate than a supportive discussion they have to expect the atmosphere in there will be different. But even there, while rousing debate may occur it is expected, I see from board rules, that it will remain in the sphere of at least basic civility. True enough, that is not "safe" for all. But individuals have to largely govern for themselves which threads they choose to join. You can avoid any threads you don't want to even read and obviously are not obligated to post anywhere. However, I think there is an expectation that if we post we at least will not be swamped by negativity or worse.

It's worth remembering too, sadly, that there is at times a lot of unfortunate activity from trollish sorts, especially in the political threads it seems. If something seems way off, report it and let Admin decide if it's legit. So, I don't view the board negatively from that aspect. Some of it is the risks of being on the internet, very unfortunately.

Cheryl has always noticed and supported new posters, early questioners of Mormonism and those who are hurting from their negative experiences. I admire her care and attention in that respect and her strength to keep up with it for so many years. I hope that most of those seeking support here find it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2018 05:14PM by Nightingale.

As I said, what bothers me are threads put here for the only purpose of spreading a political agenda not related to recovery or to mormonism or with just a mention of mormonism with no substance.

I like rousing debates. What bothers me is knee jerk name calling to avoid substance and to drive away conversation.

When RfM changed the rules to allow some political discussion it started allowing insults and out and out name calling. That doesn't help anyone recover from anything, not from mormonism or from personal problems of living a stressful life.

I avoid coming here whenever I scan the topics and see that none of them actually relate to recovery from mormonism which is the name of why we are here.

I think those with no interest in the topic need to lighten up greatly on their participation.

Thanks, Cheryl. It's always nice to see you here. It likely goes without saying but, to all readers, we are strongly encouraged to keep sending offending posts to Admin (via 'report' function underneath each post). Some have postulated that maybe people are coming here just to disrupt, a sad reality of our society at the moment, it seems. Or they are Mormons who want to disrupt this group - not a new thought. If a poster is rude, argumentative, incessant, inflammatory and obviously pushing a specific religious or political agenda then I suspect their motives and try not to engage.

The primary component of the 'politics allowed' experiment, as I read it, is that the initiating poster on a thread has to be the one that relates their post to Mormonism (or at least to religion). Otherwise, I think they are abusing that privilege. I understand more now than I did as a short-term convert that Mormonism is very political, in beliefs and actions. That, to me, is a valuable discussion. But to use it as a way to engage in general partisan political debate is not being honourable or respecting the board.

Maybe we should start out each day with a shout-out to newbies, readers, posters, anybody with questions, to help them feel welcome. I know it can be scary to write your first post. Things are a lot different now, though, than when I first came. So much more info on the Net, for one. I guess we expect more that people will look stuff up for themselves. And they can and do. But we can still offer the support they seek as they work through their own painful process in coming to terms with their Mormon lives and faith and etc.

If there are too many threads or they are too contentious on the topics apart from direct dealings with Mormonism/religion we can keep reporting them as appropriate and/or can start our own threads to keep the attention centred where it is meant to be, at least on this board. I will try this, but am a lot shorter on time than I used to be, and maybe I've said most of what I was meant to say by now.

It's definitely not easy to include the needs of so many people of such diverse interests and experiences. But it's sure interesting to try.

Agreed!

Rfm is full of opinions, advice, and observations covering many topics that inter mingle with life experience in mormonism. A full spectrum of political thoughts that influences policy, laws, and society in general as it clashes with religion thought processes and beliefs. Some discussions get wild.

The "no politics" policy is not fairly enforced on here and everyone knows it.

Search for a political topic and see the kinds of messages that are made and stay up.

The "no politics" policy is not fairly enforced on here and everyone knows it.

People just need to 'wake up' as I don't think things will change!

The "no politics" policy has been revised. We now have politics! The objective, though, is for the originating poster to relate their opening post to Mormonism. I know a lot seem to ignore that part.

I don't know if you have a conspiracy theory re the mods but if so I think you're mistaken. If you think a post or thread violates board rules you are asked to help by reporting it, including saying how it violates rules.

As CZ, Admin, says repeatedly, it may not always be obvious to general posters why a post is either removed or left up but know they are monitoring things, with the help of posters making reports.

"I know a lot seem to ignore that part." Yup.
When people make posts like

"Article: The Dangerous Convergence Of Religion And Right Wing Politics"

"Should America be partitioned into secular and religious states?"

its hard to see how they arent politically motivated.

Plus people just post obscene things like "cranking" an explanation on how to have sex with your car.

I am not making this stuff up.

Personally, I thought the Cranking thread was one of the best I've seen (in 12 years here) ;-)

I still have five more brands of detergent pods to test-taste. Look for my article in Consumer Reports!

If you don't want to be confronted with different views why did you leave Mormonism where all thinking has been done?

No ethical dillemas.

No pondering "What If..."

All is reassuringly similar and same.

The real world is not like that. Only the faux reality of Mormonism.

The future is approaching at the speed of tomorrow.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2018 09:30PM by anybody.

Whenever someone tries to tell a Mormon the truth about their religion they claim that it is hateful. Remind you of anyone?

Mormons are used to having the thinking done for them by the higher ups

Will someone link to this ‘cranking’ thread?

For no reason in particular.

We are all equal. Some people are more equal than others.