Any of one of those out there also believe that the Mormon Apostles are evil? I have read and listened to many of their teachings and come to the belief that they are evil. What I am looking for is examples. I have heard some stories on here or other sites like this one. Stories of apostles threatening those who leave the church or even marry outside the church. Saying things like keep coming even if you don't believe. Examples? Anyone?

No, evil has limits. Stupidity has no limits.

I'm not sure why people would need to adduce specific examples.

Anyone who knowingly exercises leadership authority over an organization that teaches evil and imposes evil procedures is himself evil. The apostles could abjure the church or they could resign but they choose to continue in their present roles. That choice makes them evil.

I have experienced what I consider evil at the hands of a couple of apostles but do not believe those experiences are particularly important. The deaths attributable to the Q15's teachings on sexuality, its destruction of families, its systemic misogyny: those are vastly more important than any individual's individual experience. They are also more than sufficient to condemn the organization and its leaders.

Perfectly said, Lot's Wife.

Concisely, briefly, in short, in summary, boiled down, succinctly, said. And it takes a kind heart to recognize what the Big 15 really are.

their overall plans, goals have little to do with Kindness or Honesty;

IF they did, most everything about tscc would be Radically Different....

(lack of) Financial transparency could be the best example



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2018 12:07AM by GNPE.

I put forth my observstion that they serve mammon, not a deity, unless you consider lucre a ghawd...

Not to worry - Every time they get another thirty pieces of silver, they clean it up before they add it to the Gawd Stack.

It is only "filthy" lucre that they are forbidden to worship.

Their goal is to take over the world. They will use any means necessary. They twist the truth with their semantic games and employ a PR department to carry out their plan. They mislead their followers. They obfuscate. They try to pass laws that will further their cause. They show no emotion at all except for feigned spirituality during General Conference---required indoctrination reinforcement for members. They blame others for the havoc they wreak on the gays and the women and the men and children under their power.

They have a lot in common with Dr. Evil except there is nothing funny about them. And Oaks even looks like the Dr. Imagine him with his little finger to the corner of his mouth.

Where is Austin Powers when you need him?

This wasn't supposed to go here... except maybe to agree with the above.

M@t



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2018 01:49PM by moremany.

I think the main guy looked evil when he was answering Peggy's questions at the press conference. He has an evil gleam in his beady eyes.

That is funny!

I don't have personal examples of keeping with the faith even if you don't believe. But I do know that order and obedience is so big in the church that it is very strange to me/dictatorship like. I do not find that way of living to be correct. It should be working within ourselves instead of giving our lives/actions/thoughts to someone/church outside of us.


We give them power by even paying attention to them. If everyone ignored them then they would lose all their power and be just one of us.

So I vote we all ignore them and STOP paying tithing and resign from this ridiculous prosperity gospel that is ABSOLUTELY not true.

I don't believe them to be malevolent but I do consider them willful. The harm that they cause and their apparent lack of compassion for those who feel the hurt and harm caused by their actions might make them sociopaths.

But evil is a word I prefer not to use.

Malevolent is such a great word!

What makes them malevolent? They defend and create policies that promote racism, misogyny, homophobia, shame, and fear.

They claim to speak for god, but do very little speaking about love and compassion and their actions certainly don't model either of those.

They demand obedience without question. They don't apologize and are never in the wrong.

They are power hungry.

They basically have unlimited power within their sphere of influence, and unchecked power is almost always evil.

Nicely said!

Few of us will ever hold the lofty view these jokers have with the pampered rock star status and yes man symphony they listen to every day...that likely goes straight to your head...willful ignorance in my opinion is evil...refusing objective consideration is evil...hiding the truth is evil when the lives of so many dupes are affected by it...justification seems easy as long as you refuse to acknowledge those who are ground under the tracks of the tanks...just turn up the symphony ...it drowns out the wails of the marginalized...reading the time from a Rolex definitely helps you believe in the prosperity gospel....let them eat cake

I don't consider the current lot to be evil. However a friend of mine who died a few years ago had the missionaries round and they showed him a video of a GA. He said, "that man's evil."

He never saw them again. He worked in drug enforcement & anti-smuggling operations and considered himself a good judge of character. I never got to the bottom of who it was - I have my suspicions - but my friend is no longer with us so I can't get any info.

The guy I always struggled with was Packer. The only time I saw a human side to him was when I found out he was an amateur artist. That humanized him for me... but otherwise, I saw little love emanating from that man. I suspect my late friend may have referred to Packer.

I agree. Packer never showed any love or compassion. At least towards the general membership.

Bednar gives off a very creepy vibe. I could describe him as evil just based on his talks and interaction with the lowly members. Also the way he treats his wife publicly makes me really concerned for how he must treat her in private. He'll make the worst president-prophet out of the whole group.

I don't know much about his marriage but Bednar strikes me as a company man. A lot of them are just corporate directors. I don't see them as evil, but sometimes as incredibly clumsy and unimaginative. Bednar is one of these guys who tows the line... but what does he think? I could guess with Packer, Holland, Hinckley or Monson to some extent. Bednar, I just don't know. He lacks the fanaticism of Packer.

I think Bednar has long been groomed to be president. He got nade a GA relatively young. If he lives to a reasonable age, he'll likely lead the church.

Also, those who are "just following orders" are also at fault.

Vile: foul, nasty, unpleasant, bad, disagreeable, horrid, horrible, dreadful, abominable, atrocious, offensive, obnoxious, odious, unsavory, repulsive, disgusting, distasteful, loathsome, hateful, nauseating, sickening...

M@t

All of the above!

I knew Bednar before he was an apostle. He has a very weird relationship with women. I think he really believes they are subhuman or at least beneath him. I might go so far as to suggest he is a misogynist. He certainly doesn't believe woman should be outside the home and in a career competing with men in the labor market. He also is in a rather large love affair with himself.

Since I don't like using religious vocabulary any more, I wouldn't call him evil. I'd call him self absorbed, self serving, and self important. The rest of us are put on this earth to listen and obey him. He will love being President (CEO of LDS,Inc.) if he gets the chance. I sure hope tscc is in shambles if he ever gets that far. Let "Mr. Know It All" kill himself trying to put the pieces back together when his true church implodes.

I know a couple of his adult sons professionaly. My impression is that they are good guys with that 'squeaky clean' TBM appearance. But they do not come off as arrogant, self-rightous, misogynist, or exhibit the other negative 'Bedaresk' attributes.

So my question to 'pooped', did you have chance to see what Bednar's family dynamics were with his kids?

I know only one of his sons personally but have met the other two. I agree that they are lovely men who seem humble and are devoted husbands and fathers. They don't act anything like their dad. I didn't watch them being raised but I did notice that they always seemed much closer and more intimate with their mother than their dad. They totally respect and admire their dad but I get the distinct impression that he was very busy getting his education and building his career while they were being raised. Their relationship with their dad seems very formal.

Once, when I was in their home, Dave spent the whole time in his study and was not to be disturbed. I think his family is slightly afraid of him. Sometimes Dave lets down his hair (what's there) but I think it's in small doses and only with his family.

In all honesty, I do not know much about them, but I don't think they are probably intentionally evil at all, and probably view themselves as good.

If you think about it, which is easier, for someone who is evil to do worse...or someone who is a True Believer to push the boundaries even further as a fanatical effort.

I think the Leaders of the LDS church are probably completely and totally head deep in belief. They truly believe that what they are doing is the right way of doing things.

I think it is similar to many other leaders in big church organizations. I think the Cardinals and the Pope in the Catholic church view themselves as good and truly believe what they preach.

The LDS leaders probably truly believe that they are doing the Lord's work and are special leaders that work for heaven.

You will see far more excessive things from those who are fanatics than those who are simply just evil.

We could view religious fanatics willing to go to extremes in various areas. I think Gandhi was a fanatic as was Mother Teresa in their own right. They did a lot of good, but some of the extremes they went to probably were only possible because they were fanatical about their religion and belief.

An evil person values their own skin, a fanatic does not. They put belief over their own personal value whether that belief is good or evil, right or wrong.

I think that some of them know the truth about the cult; some probably are believers,but I doubt it. You don't reach the top like that without knowing exactly what is going on. As for how Bednar is being a husband and a parent, all I know is what I've seen in a couple of videos of how he treats his wife in public; it does make me wonder how he is with her and his family in his house that was probably bought in a round about way, courtesy of the adoring tithe payers. There is a difference between being a father and being a dad. He does not come across as being a dad.

When Uchtad a dorf admitted that leaders sometimes make mistakes, I had a 'glimmer' (whatever that is!) of hope for him & the Morg; I wrote him & told of a Glaring leadership mistake, asking for help/intervention, boy was I naive/disappointed...

end of report, Game Over.