One of the major areas of impracticality; in fact, I think it is impossibly impractical for most teachers to dedicate the time and effort to maintain their skills.
with that many extra guns in schools, the numbers of shootings would go up.
Stresses teachers responding to all sorts of different threats, guns stolen from them by students, accidents - all sorts of stuff would happen. Teachers would occasionally go postal too.
Mass murderers are often suicidal anyway, so not going to be put off by armed teachers.
From the perspective of the outside world, the US is heaping stupidity onto stupidity.
No. Bad idea. Drone swarms in every janitor closet. Give up 1/2 our spending on Mikitary and bring it home to protect against domestic terrorists, terrorizing our kids.
The mods remove my one word response to this comment?
He makes a misogynistic joke and I reply "Yawn" and my post is considered offensive enough to remove while his is not? His is a positive contribution to the discussion?
We get guns because we’re afraid. We feel safer because we have guns. We aren't safer because so many people who are criminal, crazy, etc. have guns. So, we get guns because we’re afraid...
So you're completely against a safer world, and you'll kill anyone who tries to get you to stop being afraid and needing a gun in your hand to feel big and mean. Got it.
Can't we all admit that the 2nd Amendment is stupid and out dated and repeal it?
It's like we all believe that a cultural cold war is the best option, were we keep upping the ante until bad guys cannot compete with our personal ICBMs.
For more than 200 years of our history, the Supreme Court interpreted the 2nd Amendment as having to do with state militias, not the very current view pushed by the NRA
A well regulated militia exists in our armed forces and doesn't need an amendment to exist. The freedom of expression created by the First Amendment allows for our ability to rebel against an unjust government. The right to keep and bear arms has no current correlation to the security of a free state and thus is now stupid.
All of the Second Amendment is outdated and stupid and all of it should be repealed.
Seriously? The crossfire and ricochet? What is this, a wild west saloon? If you live in Utah, and go out in public at all, you are likely around many people who are packing, legally.
Well, I'm one of those people who works in a school. And I'm considering arming myself. I don't want to be a hero of any sort. But if it comes down to it, and someone wants to take my life, I will be glad that I have some means of protecting myself.
Consider how you would secure the weapon. Would it be safe from someone grabbing it from you in a crowded hallway. It would have to be on you at all times. If you left it in your purse or in a cabinet, a kid could get their hands on it. It could be used against you.
If there is a tragedy with your gun, you can and should be held responsible for it, both civilly and criminally. I could easily see school personal who were irresponsible (or just plain unlucky) with their weapon being charged with involuntary manslaughter. I would personally support those charges.
Yeah, it would be difficult to carry in a school. I totally agree. I'm thinking hard about if I would even want to. I would have to change the way I dress and be very conscientious. I get that. I may be more interested in having one at home and knowing how to use it. I'm a single mom and want to be able to protect myself and my daughter if an intruder came in with an intent to harm one of us.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2018 12:12PM by rubi123.
Consider getting a German Shepherd. They would instinctively protect you if push came to shove, but also provide love and companionship. Besides, nobody is ever going to turn your dog against you.
Certainly not in France or the UK where it might lead to more deaths due to the exasperation of some teachers at the poor upbringing of many children ;-)
Tom in Paris (son of a teacher, husband of a teacher, father of a teacher ;-)
When Kathleen said the teachers would need the screening and training that police get, I thought "hmm. That's not much reassurance given what the cell phone has revealed about police judgment and conduct in recent years."
You bring up the apposite point that teachers suffer from mental disorders, depression, and exasperation as well. If armed, some of the tens of thousands of teachers would inevitably misuse their weapons. In fact, taking professionals who are already underpaid and overworked and giving them responsibility for life-and-death decisions is stunningly stupid. Such circumstances do not inspire confidence about split-second decisions.
The other very significant problem is that if more weapons are in the schools, there will be more accidents. More people in the US are injured by guns in their own homes each year than by outsider violence. The notion that all weapons would be both accessible to teachers in short order and securely locked up is naive, to say the least.
The idea of arming teachers is daft in a uniquely American way.
You presume that the other solution--eliminating weaponry or making it harder for people to obtain--doesn't enter into discussion. Since you won't consider tightening gun control, your implied solution is to increase the weaponry in the classroom and, by extension, in the street?
It's time to step back and take a look at the forest rather than the trees.
Ok, then the fact that there are other options besides arming teachers didn't even occur to you? How does one presume nothing, unless they have no other ideas?
And your response didn't address LW's point. Banning assault weapons seems to work in other countries. Or raising the age to purchase any firearms, or, or, or. Arming teachers seems absurd on its face. Accidents will happen. Guns will get lost or stolen. Teacher may panic in face of a schoolyard brawl and fire because they were sure they saw a gun. Shooter is suicidal or delusional and doesn't care if a teacher has a gun, so the death toll is only say 11 instead of 17. Not much of an improvement.
I was specifically trained in handguns in the military. Most soldiers are not. To certify, I had to hit a target at 50 feet. It was moderately challenging to hit with a .45. We shot at targets at 500 feet with rifles. A handgun against a rifle is a very poor bet.
Speaking as an urban teacher -- it's a very bad idea. My colleagues and I have simply been in too many dicey situations as it is -- breaking up fights, children grabbing us, trip-and-falls, etc. There is far too much danger that a child would grab the gun.
I do advocate having a sworn police officer in every middle and high school. I worked in a school with an on-site police officer, and having the officer around was very helpful.
Utah allows teachers with a permit to carry concealed weapons to school.Adminstrators do not even have to be informed. My cousin's daughter taught 6th grade and carried a concealed weapon. One morning before school she was using the restroom. Fortunately there were no teachers or students there or this could have ended in death. Her gun went off,destroyed the toilet, flooded the restoom, and she was slightly injured by flying debris. She was charged with a misdeamnor, given probabtion and resigned. This scares the hell out of me. Most teachers arent qualified to be armed and dont have the desire to play policemen. How many more incidents like this would we have if teachers were armed? How do we make sure the kids cant grab the gun? The more guns in a confined space the more likely someone will be shot or caught in the crossfire. In the event of a school shooting, how are the police supposed to decide who is the shooter and who is a teacher with a gun? There is also the possibility of an unstable teacher with a rowdy class losing control. Really bad idea. No thanks. Besides who.is going to pay for the gun and training? My guess is the teacher. Teachers have enough to do, thank you, and they.spend enough of their own money on supplies.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2018 06:49AM by bona dea.
I work for a school district in the Salt Lake valley. I can tell you that some people within the schools are already armed. (I’m not a teacher, but an IT Field Tech assigned to three elementary schools.) Earlier this week the lady who shares an office with me at one location showed me her Glock 43.
In light of guns not going away, and mentally ill people becoming what appears to be more prevalent, I’m considering getting my permit to carry. I’ve started to educate myself about guns and am coming to terms with learning how to properly use them for self defense. It’s not that I want to be armed, but if it comes down to a mentally ill person with a firearm, I don’t want to be a sitting duck with no recourse.
I was a public school teacher for 30 years. I think it is a very foolish idea. My wife, who teaches at a university, pointed out to me something that the campus police told the professors in a meeting about school shootings: If they enter the building in such a situation and spot someone with a gun, they are going to shoot them. They don't necessarily know if the teacher with a gun is the bad guy or not. This is such a foolish idea. Let's not try to deal with any of the root causes of these horrors. Let's just go for the most simplistic solution and hope it works. Maybe a teacher with a gun might get off a shot and stop the intruder. Maybe. Or, maybe a teacher with a gun will accidentally shoot even more innocent victims. How much training will the teachers receive? My guess is not nearly enough.
Guns aren't going anywhere. Criminals will always get them. Get to the root of the mental health issue but how? It's pervasive! No good, easy solutions.
Other countries might make it easier for mentally ill people to access the resources they need to get better. I can't say for sure. But guns aren't going anywhere in America. For better or worse they are out of the genie bottle, so to speak, and not going back in!
There are more guns in the USA than people and it's an integral part of the culture. People will hide guns under mattresses before they'll give them up totally. Besides there are legitimate reasons to own them. My brother in law used one to kill a rabid wolf hanging around is home in the woods. His family lived miles from authorities who might have done it for him and he was concerned about his wife and young boys being attacked. Thankfully he owned a gun and knew how to use it. Authorities praised his action.
The US is vast with a huge population, much larger than some countries who have also had mass murders. There are no easy answers, but we have to try dealing with hard questions and harder answers.
the point. You have more patience that I do. And coming from a school teacher, I can agree with you even more.
My dad was a school teacher and my dad had a hair trigger temper, but he could have easily handled carrying a gun and not kill a student because he is acting out. My dad never put up with bullshit and he was a very much loved teacher.
I have many family members who are teachers and they could all carry and do just fine.
We could address our gun problem. Australia did. Also, guns don't work all that well without ammunition, something else that we can address.
Fear is the underlying problem. While there are call for gun control after every one of these tiring predictable mass shooting that we in America as a matter of policy actually encourage, there is also an increase in people going out and buying guns.
People used to own guns for hunting for the most part. Surveys show that is no longer the case. People buy guns out of fear. They want to protect themselves. These headlines scare them. The CDC is actually discouraged (maybe not strong enough a word) from pointing out that gun ownership actually increases the odds of being killed by a gun. Also, as someone upthread pointed out, you are more likely to be killed by the gun in your home accidentally or as a suicide than ever shoot an intruder.
I would prefer that we take measures that keep mentally unstable people from having guns.
Trump and the Republican congress repealed Obama's rule that people receiving Social Security Disability for mental disorders cannot buy a gun. These are people that had to prove with extensive documentation that they are so disabled that they cannot work. But we as a country insist that they be able to have an AR 15.
I don't think anyone outside a military context needs an AR 15. I don't think that people with severe mental disabilities that qualify for SSI should have access to any guns. I guess I'm just funny that way.
I agree that it would be best to address the mental health issues. But that's a huge, huge problem and no easy task to undertake. Access to adequate mental health care is hard to come by. The system has failed us so far. The FBI didn't do their job in the case in Florida. The government can't protect us from everything, or even most things.
Our current government doesn’t want to protect us. They promote the sales of assault guns like AR 15s, and promote gun ownership by people with severe mental disabilities.
These gun rampages aren't flukes. They are the result of deliberate government decisions.
"Amarillo Police said the initial [call] came in around 8:54 a.m. and indicated there was an armed suspect inside who had 100 to 150 people held hostage in the chapel.
Sergeant Brent Barbee said officers entered the building when they encountered an individual who had a handgun.
“The officers fired shots that struck the man,” said Barbee. “After some additional investigation, they’ve learned that the man that [had] the gun may have taken the firearm away from the original suspect in the call. The man who originally had the gun has been taken into custody.”
Whenever someone suggests this, I always think about Chris Kyle. Regardless of what anyone might think of him as a person, it can't be denied that he was one of the best at what he did. When he died, he and a friend took a Marine veteran shooting to try and help with his PTSD. Chris texted his friend, saying that something seemed off with the guy.
Chris Kyle knew the person who shot him was armed. He armed him. Chris Kyle and his friend were also armed, and very gifted marksmen. If they STILL got gunned down and they suspected the guy might be dangerous, what chance does your average teacher have?
I get the rationale behind the proposal, but I honestly don't think it's a good idea. And most teachers I know are getting ready to leave the field if this becomes a common practice.
Teachers are trained to teach children. That should be their main focus at school. They need a lot of things to do that, and those needs aren't always met. A few days ago I asked my son's 2nd grade teacher if there are any classroom supplies she needed. Her class needed erasers! And we live in a middle - upper middle class suburb. They don't have enough basic supplies, but give them guns?
Schools need more counselors, more social workers, more support staff, more teachers, smaller class sizes, updated facilities, more funding for the arts and elective special interests classes. All of these things could contribute to happier kids, better-adjusted kids.
Communities need more social services, families shouldn't have to worry about affording healthcare or food, children need access to preschool and after school activities, struggling parents need access to support services.
And at the very least we need better, common sense gun regulation. An 18-year-old can buy a gun capable of killing dozens of people in less than 5 minutes, but can't buy a beer. Something is wrong with this picture! At least regulate guns/owners/users as well as we regulate cars/owners/drivers.