One word, Failing.

Most of the HP had to teach Primary yesterday so Primary teachers could do something. So we just had a few High Priests. I thought when this directive came out about these council meetings, this was so important for all ward Church organizations to do. I guess in our ward their are higher priorities.

So we had a review of how council meetings are to work. Sat in our tight circle. Had a report on 3 Elders that are being helped by some HPs to become better Elders.

Too much personal information given out as far as I am concerned to the general body. One Elder attended a temple session this past week. Big silent shout out that "we are winning." One just needs some more tender care, his heart is right but he thinks too much. That is why he is not temple ready material yet. The third just has problems attending Church but does attend Sacrament meeting only.

After that report, discussion on what we can do to get to know members better. Seems this ward was the # one ward in the stake but is now at the bottom of the list. I think they use the "being friendly gauge" to make up that. Whatever. Discussion on having more activities, getting to know young people, etc. "The electronic age is killing how we relate to people" was a theme and why we can not relate to young priesthood members.

Discussion on why families are not attending. We are not making them feel welcomed. Bottom line, we as HPs are not doing enough to make people feel welcomed and we are not doing enough to get to know them. "Today's youth are a chosen generation" and we are letting them down by not getting to know them or relating to them. It was mentioned maybe they do not relate to us. That idea was shot down as a poor excuse not to get to know them.

Same old ideas, same people speaking, same thoughts and ideas I have heard for 50 plus years. A waste to 60 minutes of my life except at least I know nothing is changing. Observing and listening to to the older HP, they seemed confused that the Church is the way it is and they would like the olden days back but "we are guided by revelation and prophets." So in their minds they do not know what to do because they see the Church today is not like what they grew up in and until they get direction from above, things are going to stay the same. Very sad, I am sure they are thinking.

The fact that missionaries are not bringing in members was also mentioned as a reason ward members are not getting to know each other. Not sure what that means but it was tossed about. Because the ward has had no convert baptisms for three years, I got the idea from the discussion "were are really not good LDS members and that is why we are not the way we used to be." Quite twisted I would say.

It took everything not to say "Maybe we should look at the product line?" Today just confirmed to me that the soul and spirit of the Church members who are left is going or is gone.

In testimony meeting only one person mentioned that Neilson was the prophet and they knew that he was called. That says a lot right there. That is the answer these brethren in leadership positions are missing. Members are catching on that the church is not what it claims to be and they are trapped and not sure what to do especially those raised in the Church and are still active. Theyare living in a shell and have no one to talk to. I would have mentioned that in the HP meeting but I wanted to walk out of the meeting emotionally intact!!

I hope this helps others see the real direction the Church is going. You do not this get this information at General Conference. Maybe other places in the world these meetings are really working. I made a prediction when they announced this in the fall last year, that these meetings will fail. That is why I am following up each month.I made the prediction based on my secular learning and experience with group dynamics. I had been told that the top 15 (now the top 13) use this mention to run the Church. It is helping me in my recovery to understand how the church is run when all my life I was taught it was the prophet who gave direction to the church. I am starting to clearly see what is happening and what happened in the Church in my life time.

You are spot on. It's just the same old tired excuses and explanations that have been used for decades. With one new one to add to the mix, modern technology.

Sounds like the very definition of "circle jerk..."

It's a time wasting circle jerk.

Wow. Thanks for the update. I am grateful that I do not have to endure those meetings. Hopefully your days there will soon be over.

I feel so sorry for you Eric (and others here) on missing out on the wondrous things we got in the Church now.

First, how can life be considered blissful if you don't get to do chapel and temple cleaning service work? When the Ward Chapel Cleaning Coordinator reprimands me for not scrubbing the toilets as well as Heavenly Father wants done I get reminded of how glorious this work is.

Second, how in the world can you ever manage your finances without the Lord's glorious law of financial success running your life? Oh how logically blessed we are to have the law of Tithing.

I'd ask why in the world you left the Church but that could cause a Doubt to form. So I shut out such thoughts and remember how the glorious Correlation program has helped me learn to have a peculiar way of thinking about things :) So I'm not going to ask why people left. I'll just read the Ensign and hopefully get more answers on this through the Correlation program's blessed teachings.

For me this statements sums up the issue "One just needs some more tender care, his heart is right but he thinks too much. "

So basically they are saying only when people fail to think can they actually be a good member.

I don't know how you stand sitting through this drivel.

Christian Science is further down the road to decline and ruin than LDS. CS churches are closing at about 5% a year (as of a few years ago--no current data, sorry), fewer people are taking "Class instruction," the two-week "advanced" course in CS doctrine and "healing." That means few practitioners to provide "healing prayer" for people, who are increasingly (and more openly) using conventional medical care.

So, as a Biblical Christian, I say "Hallelujah!"

Your thoughtful and detailed post, Secular Priest, along with my observations of CS, makes me wonder:

What is the spiritual, emotional, and analytical mindset to people who seriously believe, deeply believe they belong to the one true church? (CS holds the same concept, sort of.) You see this "true church" in a state of decline, and it is increasingly apparent that it may only be a generation or two and there will be very little left to it? It's one thing to avoid and/or deny authentic facts about LDS or CS, but how does the true believer handle drops in attendance, families with numerous apostate children, ward consolidations, drops in temple sessions?

There might be a doctoral thesis for somebody in all this. Calling all data crunchers!

"Today's youth are a chosen generation"

That can't be true. Today's youth can't possibly be the chosen generation. I was told that mine was the chosen generation. You were told that yours was the chosen generation.

To paraphrase a line from The Incredibles: "If every generation is chosen, then no generation is chosen."

"Today's youth are a chosen generation"

Like apples at the supermarket, every generation is chosen, bagged, purchased and eaten. Then next week the next generation is chosen, bagged........

Exactly! I am sure that MY generation is THE chosen generation and I'm 54 years old.

Sure happy I missed that!
More of that "The church is perfect so if there is a problem it's the members fault". Drivel.

Then there's my family. A long time inactive man was in an accident and it was not looking good for him. Then the testimonies began of how many people have came back to the church when they are old, in failing health, or they no longer want to sin.

I think one word best describes LDS worship and services: drudgery. It didn't used to be that way, but it has escalated to that point. The church removed every little perk that made swallowing the bitter pill to be possible.

I still remember the short lived custom of receiving a root beer float after a boring stake priesthood meeting. The new SP put a stop to such "nonsense" (His own words: PH holders should be honored to do their duties with no extrinsic rewards.) That is what has happened in most stakes. They cut out everything that was fun, "trivial" and non-spiritual. They discouraged socializing inside the church, people sitting in the foyer and the lingering after church (Clear the building for the next ward that will be entering!) What is left is a somber and sterile experience. If current TBM's value any non-member friends that they may have, then they certainly won't invite them to church. The church has nothing of value to offer.

"Maybe we should look at the product line"


<snicker> I think it's too sacred ...

Great in the update!
I have (much) MORE to say about it, when/ if I find [make] the time (again)...

Especially about the (not so) "High” Priests… or is it Hi Priests, how war ya’? Well anyway-

So telling these non-(group-individual) [FREE(agency)]-thinking PROBLEM SOLVERS can't even ACT [smart] (for themselves - FOR THE GROUP), "like a man". Can't speak up. Can't offer constructive advise/ solutions/ answers. Utterly pathetic. Your report is spot on speck.

[Who made these Primary 'Teachers' so busy? These misguided - so 'called’ - men. Yes? And they can't take them (THE KDS) out to a playground, on the grounds, or bring in professional (and INTERESTING, not to mention believable) Storytellers, designers, problem solvers, cooks, historians, teachers... if but for a few hours? Volunteers? If people liked/ could stand Mormons/ LDS CULTure. Control. Dogma. Frustration. Confusion. Apathy. Tiredness. Futility. Xenophobia.

> Most of the HP had to teach Primary yesterday <> WHAT? Had To? Who's making these commandments? (Even if I made them I might not obey them... but that's just 'them') <>... So we just had a few High Priests. <> There would be MORE than a few (and I don't mean a curfew) if I were there. If I was there, everyone would be high (priests and priestesses, that is), to the least of their abilities, even if they have none. But, I confess, as I redress my head-dress and degrees by degrees, which I have none. I just look at my thermometer. It says I'm getting hot… I'd better not. I'm cool. I don't freeze (whale).

>... I guess in our ward there are higher priorities.

It doesn't get any higher than this (and I would higher anybody that wanted to be hired, and pay them too. Wouldn't you?) - I mean LIFE. If these men were truly living, they would know it. Some would even show it. And some would try to stop it.

Okay I'll stop. Not! Maybe for now.

I could just keep going and going and going. Truthfully though, I've got to go.

Later though.

M@t

I love a refreshing spring word salad.

I think it's in code. Maybe the capitalized words spell it out?

"MORE FREE PROBLEM SOLVERS ACT FOR THE GROUP. THE KDS INTERESTING LDS CULT. WHAT?"

Thanks Brother of Jerry.

And CODE? On This, I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT. Wow. People can be in such a hurry sometimes. Now I wonder if I should finish my thoughts from this morning.

I'll think about that!

M@t

Does anyone know if the "Maybe we should look at the product line" question could be approved by the Correlation department for people to ask at Church? I'm just asking because I have had the glorious blessing from the time I got a testimony that the Cheerios in Nursery were true to be carefully nurtured to follow the teachings and way of thinking that the Correlation department establishes. Thus if a question isn't approved by the Correlation department then I'll probably just ignore it.

We have 350 on the roll, and only 5 high priests attend high priest meetings on Sunday. The EQ meetings aren't well attended either.

They might as well form a tight-as-a-dish circle with both quorums together on the 1st Sundays.

Thanks for the monthly updates.

In our meeting it was the HP leader and EQ prez totally dominating the entire discussion similar to a lecture. Old habbits die hard.

Get to know the members better?
Leave them alone!

Quit discussing others.

Let them "call" themselves.
For what they want or are good at
Then call them back
If they want to

Leave them the FUnCK alone.
That's what they want.
(To live NATURALLY/ Normally!)
To have free agency - CHOICES
To think - and act - for themselves, and one another... as - and if - it comes to it (The common good). Family. Community. Other members, strangers, etc.

Ask 3-5,000,000 LDS/ Once-LDS, "inactives", (Mormons of record that will go on the record), ex-mormons, 'formons', whatever the label or term, about the dysfunction of Mormonism. Just WAY too much creep. Trappings. Forces. Dead-time. Secrets! Lies

It's because the men are oftentimes handcuffed, by other men [over them], even when they would think normally, passionately, openly, outside of the church (hierarchy).

Then the women (they can rope in) who are called often tire and dread these lifetimes of callings, chores, bores, indefinite on call - and for what? - busy work (for free) [pay-to-work] and NO PANTS. I'd be panting - shout out to Kate Kelly and (all the) women and men in Ordain Women!

It's a failing system.
Laden with baggage,
And the stench of dishonesty. Cover-ups (for converts, investigators and rich and poor members, including calling missionaries to continue those lies and bad habits).

These circle things these squares are doing is puzzling.

Wastes of time.
They are figuring it.

M@t