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So said several people witnessing at testimony meeting yesterday. They must have never heard of Sidney Rigdon and Solomon Spalding.
But they KNOW it's true!!
Then why was he listed as the author on the first editions?
To quote Mark Twain:
"I could not feel more satisfied and at rest if the entire Whitmer family had testified...."
Arguments from uninformed personal incredulity are, after all, SO convincing :)
"I could not feel more satisfied and at rest if the entire Whitmer family had testified...."
Arguments from uninformed personal incredulity are, after all, SO convincing :)
Most Assuredly, Joey DIDN'T WRITE THE BOOK OF MORMON!
part was plagiarized from the bible, other parts from contemporary writings.
part was plagiarized from the bible, other parts from contemporary writings.
Oh, that suggests the best answer to some testimony-bearing TBM:
"You're right, he couldn't have written it. But he *could* have plagiarized it!"
Zing. :)
"You're right, he couldn't have written it. But he *could* have plagiarized it!"
Zing. :)
Ergo: the author must have been Jesus.
Apparently Joseph couldn't write a good book, but he could write a book. People were writing novels and books all the time back then. Why couldn't Joseph have written one? They calling him stupid?
It's not like it's a great literary gem or anything. In fact the book is so poorly written and plagiarized that it points directly to being the work of someone of Joseph's ilk. I would tell the Mormons that it is a real insult to Heavenly Father to blame that piece of crap on Him. Omniscient beings just don't make those kinds of errors.
And I just want my mother to quit claiming little Joey did it when he was 14. Everyone knows he was too busy with the glass looking then to possibly have the time.
It's not like it's a great literary gem or anything. In fact the book is so poorly written and plagiarized that it points directly to being the work of someone of Joseph's ilk. I would tell the Mormons that it is a real insult to Heavenly Father to blame that piece of crap on Him. Omniscient beings just don't make those kinds of errors.
And I just want my mother to quit claiming little Joey did it when he was 14. Everyone knows he was too busy with the glass looking then to possibly have the time.
Joseph's mother said Joseph was always telling the stories about the indians when he was young including farming, warfare, clothing, religion etc.
You'll find most of Lehi's and Nephi's visions were curiously the same as visions Joseph's father recorded including the tree of life and the iron rod.
Take away the works of Isaiah, copied parts of the new testament, the book of Ether which is an altered condensed version of the book of mormon and the "And it came to pass" what's left?
You'll find most of Lehi's and Nephi's visions were curiously the same as visions Joseph's father recorded including the tree of life and the iron rod.
Take away the works of Isaiah, copied parts of the new testament, the book of Ether which is an altered condensed version of the book of mormon and the "And it came to pass" what's left?
Hmmm...I testify that J.R.R. Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings Trilogy all by his onesie. Wars, golden rings, treasures,Kings, Orcs, Elves, and new languages; Tolkien had a brilliant imagination. Not that Joey didn't have a great imagination; he just needed a little help from some friends, including the Bible and possibly some type of herbal friends. :)
The current book of mormon is NOTHING like the original. The current book of mormon has over 150 yrs of polishing / editing.
Why doesnt the church publish what was actually written from God below?
This is direct from the "Joseph Smith Papers" website.
"tae his family & deprt into the wilderess me to ass that he was obediant unto the word of the Lord wherefo did as the Lord commanded him & it came to pass that he departd into the wilderness & he left his house & the land of his in heritance his gold & his silver & his precious things & took nothing with him save it were his family & provisions & tents & he departed into the wilder ess & he came dow by the borders near the shores of the Red Sea & he trav eled in the wilderness in the borders which was nearer the Red Sea he did traveld in the wilderness with his family which consisted of my mother Sariah & my elder Brethren which were Laman Lemuel & Sam & it came to pass that when he had traveled three days in the wilderness he pitched his tent in a vally beside a river of water & it came to pass that he built an altar of stones & he made an offering unto the Lord & gave thanks unto the Lord our God & it came to pass that he called the name of the River Laman & it empted into the Read Sea & the vally was in the borders near the mouth thereof & when my father saw that the waters of the River empted into the fountain of the Red sea he spake unto Laman saying O that thou mightest be like unto this River continually runng into all righteousness & he also spake unto Lemuel saying O that thou mightest be like unto this vally firm & steadfast & immoveable in keeping the commandments of the Lord now this he spake because of the stiffneck edness of Laman & Lemuel for behold they did murmur in many thin ngs against their father because that he was a visionary man & that he had lead them out of the land of Jerusalem to leave the land of their in heritance & their gold & their silver & their precious things & to perish in the wilder ness & this they said that he had done because of the foolish immagionations of his heart & thus Laman & Lemuel being the eldest did murmur against their father & they did murmur because they knew not the dealings of that God who had created them neither did they believe that Jerusalem that great City could be destroid according to the words of the prophets & they were like unto the Jews which were at Jerusalem which saught to take away the life of my father
Why doesnt the church publish what was actually written from God below?
This is direct from the "Joseph Smith Papers" website.
"tae his family & deprt into the wilderess me to ass that he was obediant unto the word of the Lord wherefo did as the Lord commanded him & it came to pass that he departd into the wilderness & he left his house & the land of his in heritance his gold & his silver & his precious things & took nothing with him save it were his family & provisions & tents & he departed into the wilder ess & he came dow by the borders near the shores of the Red Sea & he trav eled in the wilderness in the borders which was nearer the Red Sea he did traveld in the wilderness with his family which consisted of my mother Sariah & my elder Brethren which were Laman Lemuel & Sam & it came to pass that when he had traveled three days in the wilderness he pitched his tent in a vally beside a river of water & it came to pass that he built an altar of stones & he made an offering unto the Lord & gave thanks unto the Lord our God & it came to pass that he called the name of the River Laman & it empted into the Read Sea & the vally was in the borders near the mouth thereof & when my father saw that the waters of the River empted into the fountain of the Red sea he spake unto Laman saying O that thou mightest be like unto this River continually runng into all righteousness & he also spake unto Lemuel saying O that thou mightest be like unto this vally firm & steadfast & immoveable in keeping the commandments of the Lord now this he spake because of the stiffneck edness of Laman & Lemuel for behold they did murmur in many thin ngs against their father because that he was a visionary man & that he had lead them out of the land of Jerusalem to leave the land of their in heritance & their gold & their silver & their precious things & to perish in the wilder ness & this they said that he had done because of the foolish immagionations of his heart & thus Laman & Lemuel being the eldest did murmur against their father & they did murmur because they knew not the dealings of that God who had created them neither did they believe that Jerusalem that great City could be destroid according to the words of the prophets & they were like unto the Jews which were at Jerusalem which saught to take away the life of my father
To be fair to the BOM that passage, even though it lacks grammar and punctuation contains a lot of content. Whether Smith or another author(s) it is actually pretty good.
You have a story starting in which a family leave everything behind, travel to a new location, some similes likening them to parts of geography, character conflict set out. This isn't something that many people would do really, most people when they attempt to write do not write condensed plot devices the way this extract does.
None of that proves a damn thing but i think we should let the evidence speak.
Smith (assuming it was him) was very creative. Did this story spring instantly from his mind ex nihlo or is this a version of a story he's been telling to his family for a decade or so in which he's evolved and tightened it over time.
Further, is there any real proof this is from the original manuscript v1 and not v9 after some refinement to remove a lot of the waffle?
There is enough in this about the geography to make it reasonably testable. But what is there in the book that confirms truth and the answer is nothing. It is self evident in the cold light of day that it is really a long story that contains a confusing and unstructured mishmash of biblical ideas and more modern enlightenment thinking. The problem is, TBM's cannot read this in the cold light of day, they can only read it as one of the coals of a fire pressed together keeping each other hot with the flame of shared delusional re-enforcement.
You have a story starting in which a family leave everything behind, travel to a new location, some similes likening them to parts of geography, character conflict set out. This isn't something that many people would do really, most people when they attempt to write do not write condensed plot devices the way this extract does.
None of that proves a damn thing but i think we should let the evidence speak.
Smith (assuming it was him) was very creative. Did this story spring instantly from his mind ex nihlo or is this a version of a story he's been telling to his family for a decade or so in which he's evolved and tightened it over time.
Further, is there any real proof this is from the original manuscript v1 and not v9 after some refinement to remove a lot of the waffle?
There is enough in this about the geography to make it reasonably testable. But what is there in the book that confirms truth and the answer is nothing. It is self evident in the cold light of day that it is really a long story that contains a confusing and unstructured mishmash of biblical ideas and more modern enlightenment thinking. The problem is, TBM's cannot read this in the cold light of day, they can only read it as one of the coals of a fire pressed together keeping each other hot with the flame of shared delusional re-enforcement.
lilburne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To be fair to the BOM that passage, even though it
> lacks grammar and punctuation contains a lot of
> content. Whether Smith or another author(s) it is
> actually pretty good.
Yes, but keep in mind that much of the content is ripped off directly from the bible (and other works).
Here are phrases in that passage that come directly from the bible:
"altar of stones"
"steadfast and immovable"
"and it came to pass"
"offering unto the Lord"
"near the shores of the Red Sea"
"the land of their inheritance"
"they did murmur...against their father"
"knew not the dealings of that God who had created them"
"according to the words of the prophets"
...and more. Such as similes likening people to geography.
The content isn't nearly so compelling when you see that it was lifted wholesale from another book, and Smith just made up some character names and a story outline.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2018 10:21AM by ificouldhietokolob.
-------------------------------------------------------
> To be fair to the BOM that passage, even though it
> lacks grammar and punctuation contains a lot of
> content. Whether Smith or another author(s) it is
> actually pretty good.
Yes, but keep in mind that much of the content is ripped off directly from the bible (and other works).
Here are phrases in that passage that come directly from the bible:
"altar of stones"
"steadfast and immovable"
"and it came to pass"
"offering unto the Lord"
"near the shores of the Red Sea"
"the land of their inheritance"
"they did murmur...against their father"
"knew not the dealings of that God who had created them"
"according to the words of the prophets"
...and more. Such as similes likening people to geography.
The content isn't nearly so compelling when you see that it was lifted wholesale from another book, and Smith just made up some character names and a story outline.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2018 10:21AM by ificouldhietokolob.
B. H. Roberts would disagree with them.