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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: March 12, 2018 09:06AM

Shakespeare noted how people who are the most stridently vocal about being against something are very often the ones who are doing the very thing they condemn, a long time ago in Hamlet...

Still true about human nature today.

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Posted by: Anon18 ( )
Date: March 12, 2018 09:29AM

The lady protests too much, methinks.

In this case, the psychologist conversion therapist protests too much, methinks.

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Posted by: NormaRae ( )
Date: March 12, 2018 10:25AM

A few years back there was a poster here who said that he went to the mormon group "Evergreen," to overcome his sinful SSA. And all that happened is that he met some really neat guys who were in the same position he was so that when they all "flunked out" of Evergreen, they'd hook up with each other. If I'm correct, he met his partner there. I think that was before marriage equality, so not sure what the followup was.

But I do remember him saying that he didn't personally know of anyone who went to Evergreen and claimed to be cured of their homosexuality, although there were some who came to terms with it and stayed in the church as a single member or tried a hetero marriage. But, hey, what a great way to meet singles who you have a lot in common with. I'd imagine that may be why the program has been abandoned. The powers that be may have finally gotten a clue that all they were doing was facilitating a gay dating group.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: March 12, 2018 10:53AM

What you point out, NormaRae, is so common. Like this one:

Former Love In Action Leader Marries His Same-Sex Partner

"John Smid, the former director of Memphis-based ex-gay ministry Love In Action, has announced his marriage to partner Larry McQueen. The two married in Oklahoma on Sunday, November 16th."



You can only deny your true self for so long. Falling in love is usually the deal breaker when suddenly being gay doesn't look so bad after all.

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Posted by: jacob ( )
Date: March 12, 2018 10:31AM

I know this isn't your point but I'll jump down the hole anyway.

"Sexual orientation and sexual identity are biologically determined and are not mental disorders."

All true, but maybe not inclusive enough. Even if Sexual orientation and sexual identity were not biological they could still be mental and not be a disorder. I see no reason why it would matter either way.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: March 13, 2018 09:11AM

that's the point. It's like "therapy" for being left handed. You can be trained to use your right hand but you'll always be naturally left handed.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: March 12, 2018 10:58AM

Gay conversion therapy--men meeting regularly to desperately convince themselves of some hoped for possibility---reminds me of religious conversion therapy where people meet regularly to convince themselves of some hoped for possibility.

That is the thought that occurred to me the last few times I attended church. By that time I knew a lot about Conversion Therapy and as I looked around the last F&T, it seemed somehow the same.


The natural man is not an enemy to God. Vice versa is more like it.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: March 13, 2018 10:57AM

called "Peculiar People." I'm sure my ex still has it. We read that book and there was some info about a psychiatrist in SLC named Jan Stout I believe. It said that he worked with gays and with straight/gay couples, so we went to him. It was when we stopped paying tithing so we could afford to see him as he didn't accept our insurance.

So after one session, he told us he would meet with us separate. He would tell me that my ex and I had a really close relationship and he could see us being able to make it. He told me ex that he was really nice looking and he'd have no trouble finding a partner. We hadn't really compared notes for a few visits and then we did. I lost it.

On top of this, his daughter had a baby one of the days I had an appt and he took 20 or so minutes of my visit with him talking to her on the phone and still charged me full price.

He died a few years later at a fairly young age. He was married and had kids. I tend to believe he died of AIDS. He was obviously, to us, gay whether he died of AIDS or not.

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Posted by: verdacht ( )
Date: March 13, 2018 03:23PM

David Matheson is LDS and heads an outfit called Gender Wholeness. He was interviewed by Fair Mormon.
The interview is pretty scary.
Wonderer how many people he damages everyday?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2018 03:25PM by verdacht.

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