I'm in the process of leaving the church, and I now consider myself a born-again, biblical Christian and am loving following the One True God of the Bible. I made the right decision in leaving the church. I left because of doctrinal discrepancies, false teachings, and false translations made by Smith. Although my husband left me as a result of this choice, I feel joy & happiness having left TSCC!

I originally joined because I had been asked by the missionaries to pray over the BOM and, if I felt the Holy Spirit, that meant it was true and the church was true and JS was true, etc.

Well I did read it, I prayed and when I read after praying I felt the Holy Spirit. That to me meant that all the missionaries had said was true and I needed to join. So I joined within the next month. (I didn't learn the vast majority of LDS teachings/doctrines until long after joining.)

Has anyone experienced this? I have a few explanations of my own as to why that happened. Again, it is crystal clear to me now that the church is built on lies, cover-ups, and survival - NOT truth. It is 100% clear that the church is false. But if you have any insight or opinions on why I did feel the Holy Spirit, please share! Thank you!

It was a psychological subliminal suggestion. It is OK for the monitors to give you my email if you want to get in touch

Interesting, I haven't heard of that before. Yes, that would be great!

Elevation - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevation_(emotion)

Seeing/hearing something that can stir your emotions (Families can be together forever, reunite with loved ones who have passed on, be a part of god’s “One True Church”, etc.), combine that elevation with the power of suggestion (You will feel a “burning in your bosom”), and many DO “feel the spirit”.

Nothing special, or “from god”…just a bottle of snake oil being sold to you.

Unfortunately (or fortunately), in my 40 years as a born-in-the-church member, I NEVER “felt the spirit”.

I have "felt the spirit" in many places but especially seldom in LDS settings.

You didn't. What you felt was a self-generated human emotion that the church TOLD you was the Holy Spirit™. The church grants itself the exclusive right to interpret your own emotions – not you or anyone else. It hijacks your emotions and moods for its own self-serving benefit.

The missionaries primed you to feel something. They told you that if you met the conditions, you would receive a confirming witness, so that's what you expected. It could have been anything. For some it’s a "burning in the bosom" while for others it’s a "peaceful feeling." Others get a mildly elevated mood. It doesn't matter, since the church will latch onto anything as validation. Once you've worked yourself up, you're told "see, we told you, the church is true" and you're bound to join and obey for life. The tactics of a cult on full display, right there.

They took you through "Moroni's Promise," right? Look at the conditions: you must pray "with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ." You're supposed to ask while already presupposing it's true, and expecting a confirming response. The church is clearly rigging the game (i.e., cheating) in its favor by doing this. It can't win otherwise.

If you hadn't felt anything, the missionaries would have told you that you weren't doing it right – not enough faith, too much doubt, maybe some unresolved sin – and to try again until you got the "right" answer. In the church's view, there's only one allowable outcome, and anything else is somehow your fault.

Honestly, you can get the same feelings, or stronger, while listening to great music or watching a movie that resonates with you. Everyone gets those feelings. Everyone. Most people just don't have the mormon church trying to make money off them.

Humans have flashes of awe and excitement when they hear beautiful music or poetry or view beautiful sunsets and mountain scenes. Mormons use these normal feelings to sell their religion and collect tithes. Other organizations credit the individual and honor their feelings and do not expect anyone to pay them for this normal emotion.

You didn't feel the "holy spirit."

You felt your own emotions.

Cheryl stated that well above.

Think about this for a moment...

Ever gone to a dramatic movie? Where you were emotionally touched by the compelling story, beautiful visuals, and soaring music? Where you chest swelled up, your heartbeat increased, you felt a "burning in your bosom," and you may have cried?

Over an entirely fictional story?

People who make movies have had a very long time to learn how to manipulate the emotions of human beings. They're very good at it. In fact, them being good at it is one of the big reasons we go see movies.

People who make religions are also very good at it.

You having that feeling doesn't mean it was "true" any more than having that feeling during a fictional movie means it is "true."

Oh, and one thing...after having been a member of a church insisting it was the "one true church," and finding out it was a pack of lies, I'd suggest a little humility when it comes to the new god you're worshiping. Maybe let up a bit on the "one true god" thing. And just be happy with where you are.
'Cause, you know, you could be wrong again just like last time...:)

Peace.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh, and one thing...after having been a member of
> a church insisting it was the "one true church,"
> and finding out it was a pack of lies, I'd suggest
> a little humility when it comes to the new god
> you're worshiping. Maybe let up a bit on the "one
> true god" thing. And just be happy with where you
> are.
> 'Cause, you know, you could be wrong again just
> like last time...:)
>
> Peace.

I completely agree with Hie and thank him for doing the dirty work. Because I wouldn't have dared to be the first to say it.

At the same time, I understand how you feel. When you have always thought there is One True Church, and you find out that TSCC is nothing of the kind, it can be counterintuitive to accept there may not be one at all. So you start searching for the Real One True Church.

But as Hie has already implied, this may well be just a phase you are going through. I know a lot of ex-muslims, and many of them have experimented with other faiths after apostatizing. Christianity is the most accessible. Buddhism is popular with hipsters. Their choices may vary, but the end result is usually secularism. They become Eid-and-Iftar muslims, just like the Christmas-and-Easter christians of Europe.

It's the school of life.
Perhaps you needed the time you had in Mormonism to teach you whatever you were supposed to learn.
You have outgrown it now and you are moving on to the next lesson.

I had this same experience (not with the Book of Mormon, but with the temple) and have also left the church. I don't think people can tell you what you can or should feel and what you can't or don't. That's pretty arrogant, in my opinion. That said, I did feel something beyond my own experience or belief while praying or asking a question in the temple. I worried about it, thinking that if you have a spiritual experience and then leave, are you leaving God?

No. God is beyond the church; Jesus is beyond what the LDS church says he is. And God leads us step by step out of the false and toward what is best for us. Just trust the Lord...all will be well.

This may sound stupid but I'll bet a lot of people "feel the spirit" because they read the BoM in a long session and haven't had anything to eat, so they are a little headed and prone to suggestion.

Why do they have "Fast" and testimony meetings?

You felt your own feelings caused by your own brain and what it

was thinking. There's nothing mysterious or "holy" about it.

Look up confirmation bias. This is what kept you in. However, I don't think it explains everything. I've seen things that absolutely, positively should not have happened. Faith does things. It doesn't mean your beliefs have any correlation with factual reality.

Religion is made out of the stuff of imagination. That clashes with the modern materialist view, but that only means we don't understand the physics of imagination. There's no theoretical framework as to why it works, so we explain it away. That doesn't make it go away. The fact that the world has so many problems should tell you we still have a very incomplete understanding of things.

Don't let Mormonism ruin your faith, if you're a faith person. Your world is as big as you want it to be. My belief is that the body has a mind of its own, one that can see the future better than the brain. It uses feelings to guide you to things that are in your best interest. But, as with the crustacean that outgrows its shell, you can't stay in Mormonism forever.

We are creatures of mind, body, and something larger that is termed "spirit" and/or "soul." Some people really get into dissecting all that, but I side with Wordsworth, "We murder to dissect." Too much analysis and the poetic is killed.

For my purposes, faith involves three primary elements: the emotional, the intellectual, and the will.

Let me start with the intellectual. Having read various treatments on Christ's Resurrection, I find the historic reports credible. 2,000 years ago, something extraordinary happened to an extraordinary Man who made extraordinary claims about Himself and a non-material reality He called "the Kingdom of Heaven." This is an important part of my faith, but not the only part.

Then there's the emotional, or the "spiritual." I get feelings that are sometimes joyous, euphoric even, but also feelings of doubt and uncertainty, usually about my Christian life. I believe the Holy Spirit is doing something, but I can't define or explain it. Here, the "intellectual" part of faith fails me.

And now, the will: I made a decision, a commitment, to follow Jesus and live this Truth. Both the intellect and the emotional (being human) are inconsistent, sometimes erratic, guides. Other times they coalesce powerfully, and it's wonderful when that happens.

Sometimes I'm kind of slogging through things on will alone, waiting for the emotional and the intellectual to catch up. "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak," as Christ said in a powerful moment of humanity.

LDS fails because it depends heavily on the emotional--the "burning in the bosom" or some such "experience." Others may find my explanation of my faith insufficient (I am simplifying things), but that's the way I am. I confess to rarely "feeling" the Holy Spirit. Most of the time I sort of assume that He's there doing things in me I don't know about, like a kind of mystical metabolism.

I like that term mystical metabolism. Living creatures inhabit two worlds at the same time, a material one and an eternal one. The ideal situation is to have one foot in each one. The easiest way to do this may be to “go with the flow”. The right things want to happen, so why fight them? Aspiring to the best things you can imagine sets up the flow, and then you ride that.

I felt the spirit when Paul H Dunn was in Conference talking about his experiences in the Military.

Then I learned those experiences never happened. It was all parable. Or so the lds church now says.

So was it the spirit lying to me?

Nah.

As mentioned in other comments above. It's amazing how our emotions and brain will tell us a story. Not the truth necessarily. But a story never the less.

We are amazing creations of the universe. Personally I believe we create our own reality. But that's another discussion for another time :-)

Throughout my life, people have told me about amazing, overwhelming feelings they have experienced through religion. I remember a woman telling me about a vision quest to get in touch with her Native American roots. It was more impressive than any Mormon testimony or Christian “born again” story I’ve ever heard. I remember someone else telling me about accepting Allah as the one true god and Mohammad as his prophet. She felt driven to do so, despite the fact that it was far from popular in America.

No one religion has better “Holy Spirit” experiences than any other religion. It’s all just emotions.

If there is one true god, why would he/she/it give people such similar experiences to pull them is so many different directions?

I wish I could remember whose story I read originally so that I could both offer credit to the author and could refer you to it. so that I could refer you to it, but someone on the biography board at this site told of his experiences, which essentially mirrored mine.

When someone bore his testimony, it gave me the prickly pins-and-needles feeling that I took to mean that the LDS gospel MUST be true. I had a testimony! The church was true! Then I went with my family on a trip to the east coast. While in NYC, I was privileged to see a live Pavarotti performance, and was further blessed when he performed Nessun Dorma. Voila! The same pins-and-needles feeling was there once again. I had a testimony either of Pavarotti or of Nessun Dorma, or possibly of both! On that same east coast trip I went to Niagara Falls and experienced the wonder that is there, and had a testimony of Niagara Falls, too. In 1999 I was watching the NCAA men's basketball final between Duke and UConn. UConn, despite Duke being favored by something like 9 1/2 points, pulled out a 77-74 victory. I had those same chills, and all of a sudden had a testimony of basketball! Who knew such a thing was even possible?

My take on the phenomenon is that it's the body's response to a highly emotional experience.

Widor's Toccata from his Organ Symphony #5. Saint-Saens Symphony #3 ("Organ"). Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D-Minor. Lizt's 4-hand transcriptions of Wagner...

AND: a good Easter worship service!

Caffiend, if you haven't already seen it, you might enjoy a performance of the last portion of the Saint Saens "Organ" symphony, with Daniel Roth playing the organ of Saint-Sulpice in Paris. I thought it was cool that Daniel Roth's son was conducting the orchestra down below in the church.

Here's the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzCN83XLZco

I felt like I had finally made it in life when I mastered Toccata and Fugue in D minor as a fifteen-year-old. The first time I made it through error-free felt as good as anything except sex.

When you become excited about something and want it to be true and start having faith over it, your body is capable of pouring out Dopamine and sending you on a huge trip.

As a teen, I desperately needed a life-raft. When Mormonism came along, I found myself keenly hoping that this was going to be my rescue, my salvation from the catastrophe of my home circumstances. Guess what happened when I prayed? And the Dopamine releases kept on happening for months. But the first one was the largest, and I felt that I was wrapped in complete joy. The Holy Ghost had spoken! Never again would I be in the dark about the true interpretation of the Bible, and where Jesus could be found. At 15, I had the truth and could never question it.

Or so I thought. It took me 40 years to finally get completely out of Mormonism, because it's mentality has an incredible grip on its victims. Even in the internet era, it took years to even dare to research.

I had endured any number of Mother's Day card-making days in school, having to create a sappy, mushy card experiencing emotions that I did not feel. My mother was a very mean-spirited, harsh person whom I avoided whenever possible, and I was dumbfounded every year when presented with this demand to produce a saccharine piece of crayola and cardstock to celebrate a relationship that clearly did not exist in my family. I tried to explain to my teachers that it was not appropriate, but they would not listen.

After surviving 15 years with her, another 7 without the presence of my loving and gentle father (who had died), and then, in an overflow of ignorance, trying to escape by marrying a dashing young Naval officer who was an adulterous, manipulative piece of garbage who made me doubt every brain-cell in my reasonably bright head, I found myself getting terrible performance appraisals because I couldn't focus on what I was doing. Me, the Straight-A kid. Getting scraping-the bottom-of-the-barrel reviews. Devastating.

After our divorce, (in which I lost my child, another ghastly blow) I was wondering whether there was really any point in going on with life. I wasn't much interested.

Then the mishies found me. I was hardly a Golden Contact, except in the sense that I had a good job and could pay a solid tithing.

But to make a long story shorter, I didn't question the "warm fuzzy" feelings I bot from these two adorable young men who were teaching me. They were sweet, kind, personable, gentle, (I was old enough to be their mother, so don't get any ideas) and they helped me to find ways I could be of help to the ormon community.

ME!! The most useless piece of humanoid trash that ever floated out of the ocean! And as they gradually talked me into accepting speaking assignments, I became pure gold on the Stake Speaking Circuit (which covered three States at that time.)

I could make them laugh. I could make them cry. I could involve each and every one of them in a spiritual experience (or at least, that's what I thought it was.)

After having been told for so long that I was worthless trash, here I found myself among a group of warm, caring people who seemed to care that I had a gift for putting words together and getting the Gospel message out there in ways that hadn't been done before.

Maybe the case of "warm fuzzies" was just the magic of appreciation from people who enjoyed what I had to say and how I said it. They will never have any idea how much their positive feedback helped to heal a very-nearly-broken soul.

Whatever it was, it saved my life. I had a gift worth sharing, and their appreciation made me begin to feel human again.

When you have a 'real spiritual experience' ----- it won't just be a 'feeling of emotions' it will be 'miraculous'.

These 'experiences' are available to all but you have to be patient, ask and not just give up easily or quit being persistent.

Actually, most 'claim' they want one but really won't be persistent in asking and waiting for one. If you give up why should 'spirit' try!

A 'feeling' doesn't cut it in the truly 'spiritual experience' world!

spiritist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When you have a 'real spiritual experience' -----
> it won't just be a 'feeling of emotions' it will
> be 'miraculous'.
>
> These 'experiences' are available to all but you
> have to be patient, ask and not just give up
> easily or quit being persistent.
>
> Actually, most 'claim' they want one but really
> won't be persistent in asking and waiting for one.
> If you give up why should 'spirit' try!
>
> A 'feeling' doesn't cut it in the truly 'spiritual
> experience' world!

Maybe, or maybe not; it could be different for everyone. One cannot know for certain what it is that others experience internally.

Spiritus is right. But he’s also wrong.

A real spiritual experience will be more than just a feeling of emotions. And in that sense he is correct.

But a real true spiritual experience will be more than just miraculous. So, in that sense he’s wrong.

You’ll have to take me at my word, but when Spiritus has the experience that exceeds the miraculous he’ll know what I mean.

jay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> But a real true spiritual experience will be more
> than just miraculous. So, in that sense he’s
> wrong.
>
> You’ll have to take me at my word, but when
> Spiritus has the experience that exceeds the
> miraculous he’ll know what I mean.
__________________________________________________________

Maybe my vocabulary is limited but I will try to 'expand and not limit' my possibilities.

I attempt to leverage the 'ability to get experiences' so I agree I get a lot of 'cool insights and information' that become 'routine' because I attempt (and normally) get 'information' every day. I try to 'exercise' my 'intuition' each day so when something 'miraculous' is necessary hopefully I will not miss it.

I post on a number of 'spiritual information' type websites. Some people are definitely getting experiences. Sometimes I am disappointed at what people don't seem to be getting routinely. Other times I just wonder about some posters.

I am just glad people on this site are getting and 'recognizing' these type of experiences to whatever extent. I believe getting and 'recognizing' experiences will help not only ourselves and families but also our civilization as a whole over time.

Reality isn't that exciting.

We are simply animals, wired for reproduction and then survival.

Odds of survival are greatest when we have a group for security and support.

There is much uncertainty and anxiety in life, but then someone offers you a religion that claims to be something special, promising special protection from a True God. And have many people that appear to really care about you (at least until you get baptized).

So, yes, you tend to have good feelings when you find someone with whom you can reproduce. And then when you and your offspring have a better chance of survival.

Examples are when you get a raise, or when your child excels in whatever, or when your football team (represents your villages army) is wiping out the competition.

I once participated in group therapy, expressing our anger at whatever, and was on a "spiritual" high for days after. Felt good to be part of a group - it was us against the evil world. Then I realized it was a cult.

Cults like to create enemies, against which you can band together and feel more secure. The more threats, the more warm and fuzzy you feel when you have the protection of the group.

I really need to start that new religion.

BTW, government likes to create fear also, which makes us more willing to give up our money and freedom for supposed security.

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -H.L. Mencken

Much marketing also creates fear. Like if you don't have the latest fashion or car or whatever, you will be un-cool, and risk rejection by the group (and subconsciously have greater risk of death).

I tend to be someone who has a lot of premonitions and intuition. The interesting thing to me has been how these "feelings" happen to me more since I left the lds church than when I was in it. I was BIC and very devout. My siblings mostly left the church at young ages.

Nowadays I listen to my inner voice no matter whether it goes along with mormonism teachings or not.

And like others have said, many times I've felt the "spirit" when listening to music, being in nature, seeing a whale next to the cruise ship I was on.

I had some really amazing experiences as a mormon, but just as many as an exmormon. I was the one and only member of my family who knew the significance of the day my mom died. I told my ex that morning, that if my mom was going to leave, she was going to leave that day. When he got hold of me later that evening (as nobody was able to reach me), he said, "How did you know?" Even all the extreme TBMs in the family didn't even have a clue.

So now I just listen to everything that comes my way. It drives my TBM daughter nuts when I predict something and it happens. She hates that I can do this and she is the perfect one.

My childhood family was impressed when I got insights and flashes of intuition. They thought the lord must be speaking to me.As an adult my TBM sister admitted to feeling jealous of this ability. I think TBM attitudes tend to hamper intuition and normal hunches.

I get a lot of 'intuition' also. I would not suggest it just a 'feeling' though. I get 'feelings' by listening to music or seeing things on tv.

I get visions, voices, premonitions, 'knowings', etc. through intuition. I consider this 'spiritual experiences' because I am not sure of the source. I discussed these 'experiences' with an LDS therapist friend who I knew was a devout meditator and 'suspected based on my intuition' he had similar experiences. I was right, he said he got them to help his patients often, and called them 'divine help'. I have not been bold enough to challenge him on using that 'divine help' to find out the 'truth' of Mormonism yet.

Last summer I was picking up on a lot of information and before leaving for vacations by asking myself (internally) did we forget anything. After asking that, something would come to my mind and I would ask my wife (emphasis on not me forgetting) if she packed XXX. That occurred about 3-4 times last summer where it was 'spot on'!

None of the things were 'critical' but it was interesting what you can get using intuition. We just have to ask ourselves the questions and expect a result.

I can tell the difference as I've learned to listen over the years. I can have a dream and know that the dream meant something and when it didn't.

When my mother died, we were not even afraid she was going to die at that time. We knew eventually, but she wasn't in that bad of health. She was still lucid and was in a nursing home for a few days after being in the hospital for an infection. She had visitors all day and my disabled brother had spent the afternoon watching TV with her. She had asked for another dessert and while they were getting her one, my brother just happened to have come by to see her and he walked in and found her dead with a fork in her hand. But I had that message earlier in the day. It gave me a lot more peace having had the message beforehand. My dad left 2 months later and it shocked me much more as I thought I had him for a while longer and I hadn't had the premonition he was going.

But, yes, I don't call them feelings. And I've never been wrong.

See this is what bothers me still; I read this post last night and even though I've not really been on RFM and even though I thought I was over religion (not just LDS but over the whole lot) this point still bothers me.

I'm a convert first and foremost but for some reason I felt what LDS would describe as "the pull of the Holy Ghost" long before I ever even picked up a book of mormon or set foot in church.

I'd love to know if anyone has any explanation beyond simply the power of suggestion about it.

Everyone is responsible for working out these issues. The thinking hasn't be done. These are open questions to ask yourself. No one can do it for you.

mayrach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has anyone experienced this? I have a few
> explanations of my own as to why that happened.
> Again, it is crystal clear to me now that the
> church is built on lies, cover-ups, and survival -
> NOT truth. It is 100% clear that the church is
> false. But if you have any insight or opinions on
> why I did feel the Holy Spirit, please share!
> Thank you!

It is the same drug and just a different brand of it in my opinion.

>>"....I now consider myself a born-again, biblical Christian and am loving following the One True God of the Bible."

I've had only a few times in my life when someone older and wiser said something to me that cause a lifetime of impact.

One of those times was when I was in a bit 'o trouble in 6th grade. I had gone along with a few other kids and honestly don't recall what we did, but it wasn't too bad. No punishment, just a chat with the school guidance counselor, Mr. Keck (nice man too). At the end of our chat he asked me...."So, do you want to be a follower all your life, or a leader?"

Maybe it was that experience, but I never quite got what the excitement of being a religious "follower" was all about.

>>"I originally joined because I had been asked by the missionaries to pray over the BOM and, if I felt the Holy Spirit, that meant it was true and the church was true and JS was true, etc.

Well I did read it, I prayed and when I read after praying I felt the Holy Spirit. That to me meant that all the missionaries had said was true and I needed to join. So I joined within the next month. (I didn't learn the vast majority of LDS teachings/doctrines until long after joining.)"

And what makes you think you aren't just doing the same thing again with your new found religion you're so happy to be following? If you are using the same "test" and your good feelings are proof to you that it's true, you're making the same mistake again.

There is a spirituality that is far beyond what Mormonism teaches or has to offer. I can't explain it, because it is something that can't be taught. It is not feelings alone. Those who have not felt it cannot conceive of it, but many of them feel and conceive this ineffable spirituality later in life.

I felt the spirit too...when Red was headed to the border in shawshank redemption....does that count...or John Joffrey fixed up the wardens wife...hmmm

Your emotional endorphins kicked in. Happens to all of us when we read a touching book or see a touching movie. If we went by that, Charles Dickens' "A Christmas Carol" would be true.

One time I walked into an audio shop (we used to have those), and an expensive system was playing Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. Just as I stepped into the store the choral movement kicked in. A chill went up my spine. I shivered and felt cold for a moment, and then I took a seat and listened to the rest of the record. I never felt that way in church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2018 04:54AM by donbagley.

People used to have good feelings about the Earth being flat as well. And they used to have good feelings about the Sun revolving around the Earth.

Feelings are not an indicator of truth. If they were, we would have a lot more people winning lotteries and having successful outcomes on other forms of gambling.

The feelings that you are referring to are sometimes called "elevation" or "peak experience." They can be found in every religious tradition and in other venues as well. I've felt it at the top of a tall mountain, looking at waves of other mountains and listening to the wind blow. I've felt it at the seashore. I've felt it while sailing.

The Book of Mormon can not possibly be true. There are far too many historical inaccuracies. Hoping that it might be true, and having good feelings about the "truth" of it, still doesn't make it true.

This is the best explanation I have seen for feeling the Holy Spirit.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ycUvC9s4VYA&feature=youtube

After discovering that the church was true, I investigated many other religions, and came to the conclusion there was no God, so I am an atheist. I started meditation, based upon Buddhist principles, not the religion, the principles of meditation, and I have found that I I feel the spirit frequently. However, it is not the spirit that I am feeling, that is something from a supernatural God, but rather a sense of well-being which is created by my own body in a meditative state. I have come to the conclusion that we can Greek creates

Sorry the above post got posted by accident. What I was saying, is that we can recreate that spiritual feeling through our own minds and emotions.

I also consider myself a Born Again Biblical Christian. Because I feel "spiritual", not "religious", it's my opinion that you, myself, and many others received an "answer" or "feeling", but not from who you think. When you go through the temple, the starring character is Satan, and everyone in the endowment session follows his instructions. A few years ago, a man killed his wife, and then his 2 sons and himself. They were married in the temple. People are taught to pray to see if the person you want to marry is the right one for you. I used to wonder why she may have gotten a "yes" answer to marry someone that would become her murderer. It's just my opinion, but I think possibly that rather than going with a gut feeling, or instinct, that was ignored and the yes answer was most important.