https://www.cbsnews.com/news/preston-idaho-science-teacher-reportedly-feeds-puppy-to-snapping-turtle-in-front-of-students/

While most people find this outrageous, I read a Facebook post about the incident which claims that over 3000 students and parents have signed a letter of support for him, saying he is a swell guy who helps boys with their eagle projects,etc....which leads me to believe he is Mormon with some kind of visible position in the church, and no one can believe he could have a perverse side to him. Just a guess. We all (used to) put our priesthood leaders on pedestals.

Are people upset because snapping turtles eat mammals?
Or because it was a dog instead of a rat?
Or because it was fed in front of students, no matter what it was fed?

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are people upset because snapping turtles eat
> mammals?

I don't think so.

> Or because it was a dog instead of a rat?

It would have never made the news.

> Or because it was fed in front of students, no
> matter what it was fed?

I witnessed live mice eaten by Boa Constrictors when I was 10. I think that is allowable.

Interestingly I recently read that humans and canines are the only interspecies producers of feel good brain chemicals known to exist. Humans can get brain buzzes from lots of animals. Dogs are the only ones known to experience the same chemical reaction.

Artcile may have been focusing on one neurotransmitter. Bad Science Reporting.

Humans are the only species on earth that do not exist as part of the food chain. We dominate at the top. Most of the time, anyways. When people think of their pets as being equal to humans outside the food chain, they get really defensive.

Everyone smiles when their cat or dog goes outside and kills with their animal instinct. But when the tables turn on those same pets, look out!

I have no feelings toward domesticated animals whatsoever. I would never take one as a pet. It is unnatural for most of them to live within the constraints of a human home. FYI, I have never visited a zoo as well, on a matter of principle. Call me callous if you like. Blame my parents for never buying me a pet. As a result, I have never understood the connection. Probably like this poor science teacher.

Different strokes for different folks.

Cause bacteria will eat garbage.

He is a science teacher. How is this science. The puppy was defective ? I wonder what he wants to do with defective humans.

" I wonder what he wants to do with defective humans."

Make them Stake Presidents.

Some people think that's progressive.

Sick minds feed on each other.

It was depraved, extreme and unusually cruel to a helpless sick puppy. SPCA and animal activists have a right to be outraged. Cannot imagine the majority of Preston's locals are okay with that. The science teacher is not ethical and lacks compassion. Why not feed him to a lion and let him see how it feels?

Really????

Unethical and lacks compassion? How on earth can you make that kind of judgement call based on this event?

Are you a dog lover? If so, I am too, but I don't find what he did bad. South Korea eats a million dogs a year; that are healthy. Are they all unethical and lacking in compassion.

He is a science teacher that fed a sick animal to his turtle, after school hours.

Why aren't you outraged by the science teachers that feed healthy mice to snakes? Or crickets to scorpions/tarantulas? I have had rats, mice, guinea pigs, and hamsters as a kid and never liked to watch those things get fed to snakes, but never hated the science teacher. It's the circle of life.

I think your opinion on this teacher is seriously skewed. Who are you pass that kind of judgement on this guy for doing something that you don't agree with, yet happens millions of times to 'innocent' animals every single day!! If your reasoning is such, there are millions of unethical and immoral people in the world simply for perpetuating what has been happening in nature for millions of years.

I wasn't going to say anything to your post, but it's very harsh to base a very robust and damning opinion of a person on something like that.

jdoubledub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really????
>
> Unethical and lacks compassion? How on earth can
> you make that kind of judgement call based on this
> event?

The grisly deed speaks for itself.
>
> Are you a dog lover? If so, I am too, but I don't
> find what he did bad. South Korea eats a million
> dogs a year; that are healthy. Are they all
> unethical and lacking in compassion.

We aren't South Korea. And no, it is not humane, their treatment of dogs. That is a sick and unhealthy practice that is in decline. Furthermore, it is off topic to this discussion. "[I]n recent years, it has been controversial both in South Korea and around the world, due to animal rights and sanitary concerns.

Consumption of dog meat is uncommon in the modern day, especially among younger Koreans, and the practice is declining rapidly.[2]" Wiki


> He is a science teacher that fed a sick animal to
> his turtle, after school hours.

To a group of junior high students. That were not there for extracurricular activity. It was still part of their structured classroom time. It was not ANY sick animal. It was a sick PUPPY. Get your facts straight.

>
> Why aren't you outraged by the science teachers
> that feed healthy mice to snakes? Or crickets to
> scorpions/tarantulas? I have had rats, mice,
> guinea pigs, and hamsters as a kid and never liked
> to watch those things get fed to snakes, but never
> hated the science teacher. It's the circle of
> life.

I did find it repugnant. So much so that I mousenapped the entire booty of little white mice after school one day in a coffee can to spirit them away to freedom before they could be fed to the snake. I couldn't stand idly by and allow that to happen. It isn't a circle of life in a science lab, if the students have some say in it. Feeding a sick puppy to a snapping turtle was never a part of any discussion. Our science teacher wasn't that sick or depraved to do something that insipid. The real "sick puppy" is/was the science teacher. Maybe he should've fed himself to the snapping turtle to fulfill your destiny for its 'circle of life' in front of the class of students.

>
> I think your opinion on this teacher is seriously
> skewed. Who are you pass that kind of judgement on
> this guy for doing something that you don't agree
> with, yet happens millions of times to 'innocent'
> animals every single day!! If your reasoning is
> such, there are millions of unethical and immoral
> people in the world simply for perpetuating what
> has been happening in nature for millions of
> years.
>
> I wasn't going to say anything to your post, but
> it's very harsh to base a very robust and damning
> opinion of a person on something like that.

Because feeding sick puppies to science lab animals doesn't happen every day. This is unique, which is why it's drawing universal criticism and condemnation globally. I don't think you learned about love or compassion while you were learning your ABC's. Or maybe you never had a dog you loved. If you did, you wouldn't be so heartless about feeding a sick puppy to a zoo animal.

It's also ILLEGAL and against the LAW of the LAND. You obviously don't know UP from DOWN.

In our society feeding puppies to turtles isn't acceptable and he should have known better.

Exactly. It is not acceptable in our society. Doesn’t matter if Asians eat dogs or snakes eat mice. Feeding a live puppy to a turtle in front of kids is a terrible idea.

A science teacher at any level is not hired to demonstrate to his or her students the cruelty of life, or the indifference of nature to life, however true these principles might be. Nature and biology can be explained and taught without demonstrations that appear to acquiesce in, and participate in, what would otherwise be the natural suffering imposed upon life by nature. In fact the science teacher's demonstration had nothing to do with nature. In the wild, multiple ecological forces condition predatory behavior. This teacher was obviously not trying to teach, but to impress upon his young students that they need not be concerned about animal suffering, since it "is natural."

Such conduct projects a value that says that in gaging the appropriateness of human behavior we can defer to the laws of nature, when human behavior is ideally guided by moral values that transcend the laws of nature.

Wow, impressive mind-reading.
You know what he was hired to do despite never seeing his employment contract, you know what he "obviously" was trying to do (not teach, of course!) despite not knowing the teacher or being there.

Can I get you to pick lottery ticket #s for me?

And back in the real world, snapping turtles still need to be fed...

My bad. Never saw the Contract. But here is an idea I am sure you would like. Maybe this was in this nut's contract:

RECOMMENDED CONTRACT FOR BIOLOGY TEACHERS

Section 1A: You will teach a course called "Appreciating the Suffering of Animals" which shall include a feeding demonstration such that a live animal is fed to another live animal. In order to make this demonstration as realistic as possible, the animal being served as food should screech and squeal as much as possible so that the students will appreciate just how cruel nature can be. It is important not to show any emotion of sympathy or regret during the presentation as that would undermine the point of nature’s indifference to life and suffering.

Now, once the demonstration is over you should explain to the students that they need not worry about such things, it's all just part of nature. At that point you should also explain to them that we humans too are really just animals.

MAYBE WE SHOULD SUBMIT THIS PROPOSAL TO THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BIOLOGY TEACHERS (NABT)

Henry Bemis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A science teacher at any level is not hired to
> demonstrate to his or her students the cruelty of
> life, or the indifference of nature to life,
> however true these principles might be. Nature and
> biology can be explained and taught without
> demonstrations that appear to acquiesce in, and
> participate in, what would otherwise be the
> natural suffering imposed upon life by nature. In
> fact the science teacher's demonstration had
> nothing to do with nature. In the wild, multiple
> ecological forces condition predatory behavior.
> This teacher was obviously not trying to teach,
> but to impress upon his young students that they
> need not be concerned about animal suffering,
> since it "is natural."
>
> Such conduct projects a value that says that in
> gaging the appropriateness of human behavior we
> can defer to the laws of nature, when human
> behavior is ideally guided by moral values that
> transcend the laws of nature.

+ 1,000,000

Well said, Henry Bemis.

I don't like that the Koreans eat dogs. If I could do something to save them, I would. I'd save all the dogs in the world if I could.

I, myself, don't understand nature. I've gotten to a point I eat as little meat as possible. This is one reason I question what kind of God would make this type of world? I hate it. I have to not think about it.

What this man did was unacceptable to me. My dad taught Biology part of the time. He would NEVER have done something like this. My dad was big gruff man. The students at the high school called him Kong. He could be very mean and very scary, but he had a heart of gold. He could never have done this. My dad never had a dog until he retired. My brother said, 'I think he loves his dog more than he loves his kids." And we laughed because it was true. I love my dogs like family. They have helped me survive and my kids survive. Someone on this board asked once if my kids would be offended if they knew I loved my dogs as much as them. I asked them. They said they would be offended if I didn't love the dogs as much as them.

My nephew saved a crippled dog that they were going to put down. He was such a great dog. His son cried for weeks after this dog died.

If you want to have snakes as pets, so be it. I could never ever feed an animal to a snake. I hate catching mice, but I can't have them in my house or they'd take over. It saddens me every time I catch one.

I hated the dissecting of mice in Biology. I lucked out and had 2 guys as the ones I "dissected" mice with and I never had to do it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2018 07:35PM by cl2.

The Circle of Life?????Wow why don’t we sanitize everything.
It used to be “graveyards”, then cemeteries. Now it’s memorial
Gardens. No one dies any more they “pass” “go to a better place”
“Return to gods arms” no one seems to be able to make a point
here because of the people using hyperbole to try and explain what this science teacher actually did. Oh he taught a lesson alright. He taught that he doesn’t care. He didn’t care about
The puppy nor did he care about the children observing It screaming as it died. It is just that simple.
And all the people who defend his actions by using the sanitized
Version of cruel and abusive behavior displayed as a science project and call it “The circle of life” are only reaffirming the “who cares”attitude that permeates our “oh so sanitary society.

I might add that countries that eat dogs kill them in the most atrocious ways extending their suffering and claim that the fear they experience makes the meat better. But then “who cares” right??

Just FYI, I wasn't "defending" anything.

I just wonder if the reaction to this episode is because it was a dog-mammal that was fed, instead of any-other-mammal. Would you be screaming "cruel and unusual" (and by the way, it wasn't a "science project." He was feeding a turtle) if he'd fed it a rat?

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just wonder if the reaction to this episode is
> because it was a dog-mammal that was fed, instead
> of any-other-mammal. Would you be screaming
> "cruel and unusual" (and by the way, it wasn't a
> "science project." He was feeding a turtle) if
> he'd fed it a rat?

Yes.

Thanks for replying, Tevai (though you weren't the poster I asked!) :)

My follow-up question, then:

What animal is acceptable to feed to the turtle, and why?

As I said above, turtles still have to eat...or the turtle dies, and wouldn't that be "cruel and unusual" to starve it?

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My follow-up question, then:
>
> What animal is acceptable to feed to the turtle,
> and why?
>
> As I said above, turtles still have to eat...or
> the turtle dies, and wouldn't that be "cruel and
> unusual" to starve it?

Fair question...

The animals acceptable to feed to the turtle (assuming that this particular kind of turtle is carnivore only, and not omnivore) are the animals that same animal would eat in the wild...

...but if those animals must be fed "alive," then---in non-wild circumstances---they should at least be sedated beforehand (not necessarily by drugs of any kind).

Under no circumstances should some animals be fed other alive animals in any classes of students who are observing this take place, where the students are at lower than university level. Doing this as a "teaching moment" for less-than-adult students is "teaching" them that this kind of behavior is not only acceptable in society at large, but is NORMAL and NECESSARY.

This is the kind of "lesson" that sears lasting effects in malleable and growing human brains that none of us want.

Companion animals are off-limits.

Yes, this. ^^^

Dogs are pack animals domesticated by nature and centuries of being socialized. Just because a puppy is sick does not lessen its worth as a canine critter. We don't eat dogs in America. There are laws against cruelty to animals. I can't think of anything crueler than this. To do it in front of a roomful of impressionable high school students? It cheapens the value of life to them.

I find it repugnant and morally reprehensible. It's a sick community that would rally behind the teacher on this and not come to the aid of the weak and defenseless.

Just shameful. I used to be proud to be Idahoan. Those people belong in the Medieval Ages. It's barbarism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2018 07:11PM by Amyjo.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2018 07:17PM by Amyjo.

Obviously he had an audience when he did this or it wouldn’t
Have made the news. If it wasn’t a science project, what was his
Purpose in doing this while children were present in the room. If
He did it for shock value, then he should not be teaching.

The shock value was inherent in what he did. He added just one more example of cruel behavior to the world. Those examples add up. Way up.

I guess I've always been cynical. I've always felt the majority of people are uncaring and many are as twisted and vicious as this "teacher."

Surprised he didn't give the puppy a name first to make it even more traumatizing for the students.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2018 05:00PM by verdacht.

You must know this guy personally. I'm not as cool as you and can't tell other people's feelings by reading an article in the paper. You should use your empathic abilities for some money!

How do you know if he cared or not? You're drawing all these societal issues and problems from the feeding of an animal to another animal.

You really need to get off your pedestal and realize that what he did was simple; not some complex societal problem. Go get your spurned and angry self, look in the mirror and ask yourself whether this guy's life deserves to be ruined because he was feeding his turtle. If you think it does, you're the problem. Lack of perspective is the problem. Not the science teacher.

Perhaps it's lack of feeling that's the problem as well as lacking forethought about the possible effect on the witnesses.

Anon42day,

Read my post. I never said 'who cares' in anyway. I love animals, grew up wanting to be a vet. Nobody has said they don't care.

It's impressive to me how many people can be totally apart from this situation, i.e. don't know the school, the teacher, the circumstances, etc, and pass judgement on other folks as non-caring, unethical, immoral people.

You don't know him, or the people involved. But it's easy to build up your grandiosity by delving out fire and brimstone for us 'uncaring' people.

It so reminds me of all the Mormons that would tell me I was going to hell because I didn't believe anymore; A moment for them to climb onto the judge's bench and hand out moral punishments when the judge is biased and without empathy.

When I wrote what I did it was because I went into the news story
And learned that more than 300 people signed a petition stating that he was just teaching “the circle of life” and should be allowed to continue teaching. I wasn’t judging you as much as
Addressing 300 people who probably signed it not even aware of
The issues involved. It brought up some very unpleasant memories
Of going into a Mormon temple completely clueless and told to say yes to everything.

My bottom line is if it wasn’t a science project, then what was it. Why were children there? Why is he not accounting for doing this. I judge only what I see.

There is a lot of good food for turtles to eat, to choose from.
Why did it have to be a live puppy, out of a bunch of choices?
It sounds like a sick, sadistic thing to do, poor thing.
Who else got rid of a bunch of “ defective “ things?
What does H- I-T-L-E-R spell?
Yes, things, to him , they were things and not living beings.
Talking about PTSD, if I saw something like that, I’d be traumatized.

Wow. I'm out. Hitler. Lets stop eating meat all together. It was wrong but not Hitler wrong.

What he did *was* illegal, hockeyrat. The local prosecutor was going to take the case but recused himself due to a "conflict of interest."

So, another prosecutor perhaps a county or two over will take over the case because the teacher did violate the law by murdering the puppy in front of the kids in a depraved and callous manner.

There are laws against what he did. The weak kneed people in Preston have more feeling for their "beloved" science teacher than they do for sick puppies, and for local heroes who are spokespeople for the helpless.

No wonder their children grow up screwed up. It's Mormon country, and I'm now sadly inclined to agree it is Hicksville.

Yes, it would be traumatizing to witness that.

The poor children with parents sticking up for the science teacher are probably wondering whether their parents love them more, or a snapping turtle, at the end of the day?

They're all "sick puppies" in my book, except for Ms. Parrish.

How many of the appalled here eat meat? How do you think the cows, pigs etc. Feel when they are led o slaughter? Terrified? Give it a rest.

Anonish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many of the appalled here eat meat? How do you
> think the cows, pigs etc. Feel when they are led o
> slaughter? Terrified? Give it a rest.

Over thirty years ago I saw a documentary film on our local PBS station about meat production.

I watched it from the beginning all the way through to the end.

When the film was over I switched off our TV set, and said to myself: "I will never eat meat again."

For the most part (a couple of miscommunication mistakes aside, when I was traveling overseas in non-English-speaking countries), I never have.

I do take some supplements (collagen powder and hyaluronic acid, for example) which are made from meat by-products, but the animals are already fairly long dead by the time the by-products are sold to the supplement manufacturers...NO animals are killed specifically so that I can eat them...and the specific supplements I take, I need.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2018 04:24PM by Tevai.

Thank you Tevai for sharing what you did. While it may not
Matter your comments changed my life.

Anon42day Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you Tevai for sharing what you did. While
> it may not
> Matter your comments changed my life.

I hope in a good way!!!

:)

Absolutely without question.

Anon42day Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Absolutely without question.

:) :) :)

I love the 'emotion' on this site!!!

I think it shows we have certain 'standards', not necessarily spelled out in our society.

I just wish media would point out the truly disgusting things going on in the world to 'unite' people (at least in the US) against them so political and economic actions can be applied.

The US does have a lot of 'power' to affect 'change' in the world.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2018 04:06PM by spiritist.

My first thought was how did he determine that the puppy was sick and could not be saved? He teaches Jr. High science which pretty much rules out that he is a licensed veterinarian.

I read in one story that the puppy was brought to him to see if he could help it, that it's mother had abandoned it. Why wasn't the puppy taken to a vet? Why did a Jr. High science teacher make a determination to kill it without the training, education and credentials that might have saved it?

To me, the proper course of action would be to take the puppy to a vet and have it euthanized by a vet if it could not be saved.

I read in another article this interesting point:

"Usually, the omnivores will chow down on insects, spiders, frogs, snakes, birds, small mammals, and even their own kind, but cute, dying puppies doesn't seem to be a consistent menu item. It's likely then that this incident started, like any well-designed experiment, with Crosland posing a question: Will my snapping turtle eat a live puppy? Then came the background research before Crosland, science teacher that he is, ostensibly formed his hypothesis: When presented with a live puppy, my snapping turtle will, in fact, eat it. Which would make this one of the most fucked up "experiments" of all time."

I agree with you. The teacher should have taken the puppy to a vet or to an animal shelter. The turtle would have been happy eating vegetables, eggs, and insects. No need to demonstrate cruelty in front of the students.

You know what they say about kids who torture puppies and kittens, dogs and cats. It's a big red flag for sociopathy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2018 05:45PM by summer.

"You know what they say about kids who torture puppies and kittens, dogs and cats. It's a big red flag for sociopathy."

Ditto.

Haven't been able to learn from news stories if the student who brought the puppy in wanted the teacher to help it or if his intention in bringing it was to see it fed to the turtle. Was that student one of the three who watched the incident?

It leaves a nagging question in my mind. Did the student who brought in the puppy want to see this and did the teacher willingly help satisfy a student's morbid curiosity?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2018 07:24PM by mikemitchell.

Why is a snapping turtle in captivity?

Dog lover here. I’m appalled.

Next week, he should feed a live snapping turtle to an adult pitbull. That would at least even the score, right?

If creating scenarios where dogs fight each other for entertainment is illegal, then how can feeding a puppy to a turtle (for amusement) be considered legal ????

.....I think somebody is in trouble .....

Solution:

1) Give the teacher a reprimand. Too many people want pubic employees to lose their jobs and pensions because of one wrong, or sometimes embarrassing, act or statement.
2) Feed turtles (and other classroom animals) commercial food. Or minsed meat if "Turtle Chow" is not available.
3) Use nature films to teach the logical beauty of natural selection.
4) In high school, start teaching how this applies to dating and marriage, and how powerful men win beautiful trophy wives. (/s)

Animal activists across the country and the world have threatened violence against the school. FBI was called in and the local law enforcement to protect the staff and student body after the story went virile.

Jill Parrish reported the incident to the police and has been threatened too.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/article204988529.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2018 07:31PM by mikemitchell.

She did do the right thing. The people of Preston are very hateful to turn against her for standing up for the welfare and against the cruelty of helpless animals.

From the Statesman article, "Speaking generally, Rosenthal said the feeding of a live puppy to a turtle would be a violation of the state’s animal cruelty statutes. The Idaho Humane Society also contacted the Idaho Fish and Game to determine if the snapping turtle was legally obtained.

“There’s nothing under state law that would exempt that action from cruelty prosecution,” he said....

Parrish, 40, said the accused biology teacher — whom the Statesman is not identifying without confirmation from police or the school district — was her teacher when she was a child growing up in Preston.

She said that because the teacher is beloved in the community, local officials don’t want to ruin his career. And those who are upset by the alleged actions of the teacher are afraid to speak publicly.

“Everybody is so scared of the repercussions,” said Parrish, who planned to hide out at a family member’s home to avoid threats and other backlash. “Anybody who thinks I am having fun doing this — I’m not. It’s the right thing to do.”

One of my cousins lives in Preston. Their children attend the school district. They're livid about Parrish taking a moral stand, and think nothing about the welfare of the puppy. Absolutely nothing. It sickens me. I see them in a whole different light than before today.

This was one of my first concerns when I began to question the existence of a god.

What kind of all-powerful all-knowing jerk would create a system where animals kill to live? Surely he could have come up with something less cruel. Photosynthesis for all!

Nature is brutal. Even with all its beauty, the astounding cruelty was one of the first reasons I didn't want to worship a god who would mastermind such a thing.

I'm 80% vegan. I feel sad knowing an animal had to suffer for my meal.

I thought about the book Stranger in a Strange Land when the Martian described the reverent process of eating each other upon death. It's interesting sci-fi culture to make us think about why we do what we do.

and I don't know how I could forget. I adopted a little dog about 6 years ago. He was only 3-1/2 pounds and he looked like he was dying. He had a crooked neck. I was never going to get another dog as they are so difficult to lose, but I had to adopt this dog. When I took him to the vet the first time, I was told he had a defective heart, had a horrible heart murmur. My vet, when I was back in Utah, told me that, too. He asked me how long I'd had the dog, etc. He was put on heart medicine and with me feeding him, he gained to 6.9 pounds and stayed that weight until he died.

We only had him 3-1/2 years. He is and always will be one of the greatest loves of my life, as well as my ex's. This little dog was something I can't explain. And yet, he was not a perfect little dog. He changed all of us. What if someone had decided he should be fed to a snapping turtle?

IF PETA, Humane Society and the other animal rights groups can not find some leverage in that situation for their agenda, then they are world class lame asses .....are they world class lame asses?????? .....I think somebody is in trouble....

At a camp ground on the Olympic NP, the elk were calfing and a black bear started stalking the calves.

A concerned camper reported the situation to the park ranger and demanded he do something about it.

He did. He expelled all the campers and locked the gates.

His rational was that the situation was all part of nature.