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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: April 06, 2018 06:05PM

Elizabeth has turned her horrific experience into a cash cow.

It's been sixteen years since her abduction and rescue. This is her second book in four years. Plus her talk circuit, she gets paid to do.

It's become a career for her.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: April 06, 2018 11:01PM

I am a writer, and not only do I not see anything wrong in Elizabeth Smart writing another book about her experiences (or in her speaking about her experiences in speeches or television appearances), I think she is doing a positive public good...

...especially since the facts which led to her kidnapping and confinement still exist in Mormon society, and her experiences as a kidnap victim are applicable to Mormons and non-Mormons alike.

I see nothing wrong with her earning money for teaching the public (including a new generation now growing up) about what CAN happen...HOW it can happen...and discussion about what--if it happened again now--would likely be, possibly, better techniques for anyone who might be victimized in this kind of way.

The more practical education which gets to kids growing up, the better for all of us. Kids (of all kinds) ARE kidnapped in the United States, and Elizabeth Smart's words may be the exact words necessary to allow a current kidnap victim to either avoid the kidnapping from the outset, or to escape from captivity.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2018 11:07PM by Tevai.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: April 06, 2018 11:06PM

I think she is doing a lot of good. I read her book and thought she made some good points, although her first book was more compelling.I believe she donate the proceeds of her first book to the Laura Recovery Center. I could benwrong, but I know her parents did.

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 04:38PM

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Elizabeth has turned her horrific experience into
> a cash cow.
>
> It's been sixteen years since her abduction and
> rescue. This is her second book in four years.
> Plus her talk circuit, she gets paid to do.
>
> It's become a career for her.

Totally agree.

And has anyone ever investigated the NEGLECT from her parents, especially Mormon father? Who does that to their family?

The father is Problem #1 because he followed a cult and let a predator at his family.

Every good father protects his family. He didn't.

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Posted by: anon28 ( )
Date: April 08, 2018 05:01PM

And good on her, IMO. If you have to go through years of kidnapping and rape, at least turn it into money for you and your family. No one should ever have to go through that.

Models and actors use the fact that they're attractive through no work of their own, privileged folks use family connections for internships and letters of recommendation; what's the difference, really? Except that she actually had to go through something truly awful first.

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Posted by: OK? ( )
Date: April 06, 2018 10:29PM

Are you being forced to go or to buy her book? Isn't this blog about people having made a free choice and then talking about it? Why object to her having done the same thing. Give her the same courtesy that you want.Other than having once being a Mormon have you ever had a traumatic event(s) in your life to have to cope with for the rest of your life: like...for instance were you raped when you were 7? Have you died multiple times? Cut her some slack!

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 06:25PM

Why do we have to 'cut her some slack'? Because you tell us to? How does that support free thinking?

Besides, Smart clearly has 'slack' for all eternity. It's recognized as, $$$ aka 'successful sales strategies'.

And hey, we're all talking about her again. Another success!

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: April 06, 2018 10:50PM

It isn't a criticism. It is an observation.

Her father made his very good livelihood selling real estate.

She makes one selling her story. It beats punching a clock and working a 9 to 5 somewhere.

What good it does is great if it helps others learn from her misfortune. Maybe it is therapeutic for her too.

The money she earns from it certainly helps her. It certainly has turned into a cash cow for her, and she's milking it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2018 10:52PM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: OK? ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 12:27PM

Anyone who does the same thing more than once and makes a profit by your posting has created a "cash cow". By your definition your using your own efucation and experience to make money can be declared your cash cow. The phrase is perjorative. You don't like Mormons: that's your choice, I support your right to feel so. When ypou cross the line to being a bigot I oppose you. I oppose all bigots such as those who hate other races. Or, those Mormons who hate questioning members, or those who have left the Church. It's my understanding that the purpose of this blog is to provide exmormons, never been Mormons, and Mormons who have questions that they are trying to figure out the answers to (that's me). When a person who claims the support of everyone else at this site attacks someone else for doing their best to survive and is not assaulting others...it's wrong.

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Posted by: Moe Howard ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 12:58PM

I didn't see anybody on the attack here, just comments.

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Posted by: VZ Gardner ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 12:40PM

She's indeed a role model to all young Mormon girls who can only dream that someday they, too, might be abducted, raped and held captive by some smelly old fart who fancies himself a modern polygamous prophet.

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 01:00PM

That's the issue that most of the world never understood. It was her mormonism that made it able for the "prophet" Brian David Mitchell to get her to cooperate with her kidnapping. If she didn't believe in fairy tales and walking prophets, priesthoods and male authority, she might have fought back tooth and nail.

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Posted by: Jimbo ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 06:41PM

Mitchell had a knife to her throat . What in the f@uck does that have to do with Mormonism? Are you actually saying that I'd she had been Methodist or Lutheran then she would have fought back?It's victim blaming and it is SICK.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 07:37PM

She didnt cooperate. She was a kid,there were two adults and they treatened to kill her and her family if she tried to get away. Her behavior was pretty typical for kidnap victime. Ever heard of Patti Hearst, Steven Staynor, Jaycee Dugard and a lot of other victims?

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 07:54PM

She believed he was a prophet because she believes in prophets. There were many parties and a=other social gatherings where she was left alone and had chances to escape. I understand the Stockholm system. But, at first, instead of "stranger danger" kicking in, she believed he was sent by god for her.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 08:43PM

She never believed he was a prophet. Read her book or the transcripts of her testimony at his trial. She despised him and never bought his prophet act.

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Posted by: anon28 ( )
Date: April 08, 2018 05:09PM

What in the actual hell.

No, she didn't.

This is an extremely common reaction for people experiencing long-term trauma and CPTSD.

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: April 08, 2018 05:55PM

Is it Mormonism or is it a father who, by earlier reports, gave that POS a key to his home?

Another thing that irked me was when the Smart family all appeared in an interview (a 60-Minutes type) where Mom, Dad, and all the rest of the kids appeared each in a matching Icelandic-knit sweater. They looked like the von Trapp family singers. Appearance seemed very important to them.

Poor girl.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2018 06:03PM by kathleen.

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Posted by: anon28 ( )
Date: April 08, 2018 05:02PM

Wow.

What a disgusting comment.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: April 08, 2018 06:58PM

He didnt give Mitchell a key and in fact Mitchell only worked on the roof and in the yard. He was never on the house until he cut a screen and climbed through a window which had accidently been left open and took Elizabeth at knife point. Get your facts straight

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 12:56PM

Why Boise ? Why not Salt Lake ?

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 01:01PM

I think she's kind of saturated the market here. Especially with non-mo's.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 01:06PM

Elizabeth Smart suffered from the Stockholm Syndrome that in turn helped spare her life.

But would her abductor actually have killed her? He was all talk, and delusional, yes. But I'm not sure murder was/is in his DNA.

He seems so impaired mentally.

Her aligning herself with them even when she had ops to escape sort of makes me wonder how easily she was brainwashed by them. When she could have walked away, she still didn't.

She was resigned to her fate of being a nomadic homeless person with a couple of scraggly fugitive felons from the law.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2018 01:06PM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 01:15PM

I agree with your points in this post, Amyjo...which is why I think that she is doing an immense public good by keeping this discussion going.

Unfortunately, this process is too common in our society ("slave contracts," for example--or the experiences of many followers of mega-church religious leaders), and discussion of this process helps immensely to discourage new cases of these kinds of relationships in our greater society from being formed.

She is doing a wonderful public good, and I wish her the best in her continuing efforts to prevent "this" kind of thing from happening to others.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 07:39PM

Lots of non Mormon victims, some much older and experienced, (Patti Hearst for instance) didnt try to escape either.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 01:22PM

I've barely taken notice of the Elizabeth Smart saga, mostly because I don't like sad stories. When I did begin to 'notice' her, it was because she'd accepted a mission call. And then there was the word of her temple marriage, and then her books and speaking tours... It impressed me.

And then I heard something that for all I know could be completely untrue, but I didn't want it to be untrue, so I've never pursued the matter.

What I heard was that after the first sexual attack, what she had absorbed of mormon sexual philosophy led her to believe that she had lost something that was so important that not having it, she might as well be dead.

I don't know enough about the Stockholm Syndrome to know how that fits into her equation. But I can easily believe that the mormon 'what women are worth' equation was the answer for the question regarding why she didn't escape when she could have. I think she believed that she would not have been accepted back into polite mormon society. There was no point to escaping, in her mind.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 01:36PM

I think you point, Elderolddog cannot be understated. That's why I'm glad she's decided to make it her life's work to get that absurd notion out in the open and give it the scrutiny it deserves. Kuddos to her. This is not just a mormon issue.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 07:40PM

In her book she said she felt that way at first but soon realized that it wouldnt matter to her family

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 08:06PM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've barely taken notice of the Elizabeth Smart
> saga, mostly because I don't like sad stories.
> When I did begin to 'notice' her, it was because
> she'd accepted a mission call. And then there was
> the word of her temple marriage, and then her
> books and speaking tours... It impressed me.

Yes, she met her husband during her mission in Paris.

And the ghostwriter of her book, 'My Story' is Mormon Republican senator, Chris Stewart. Also author of other books such as:

Seven Miracles That Saved America

The Brothers (fiction about the pre-existence)

From the End of Heaven (fiction about end times)

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 06:27PM

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Elizabeth Smart suffered from the Stockholm
> Syndrome that in turn helped spare her life.

Right. And, her very own father DENIES she suffered from Stockholm Syndrome.

Even her captors would've agree that she very likely didn't protest due to SS.

Or, that she truly recognized the Prophet, as she was raised to believe.

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Posted by: Jimbo ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 06:52PM

All talked Amyjo? Was he "just talking" when he had her starving dehydrated and chained while he RAPED her numerous times. The victim blaming on this thread is pathetic and sick .

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 07:11PM

Jimbo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All talked Amyjo? Was he "just talking" when he
> had her starving dehydrated and chained while he
> RAPED her numerous times. The victim blaming on
> this thread is pathetic and sick .

This is not victim blaming. If anyone is to blame, it is Smart's father. He exposed his family to massive risk because he is a cult follower.

Mitchell behaved very similarly to Joseph Smith. In Smart's belief system, Joe is a god.

Further, Mitchell, Barzee, and Smart came down from the foothills daily to eat and drink. They were regularly less than a mile from Smart's front door for 9 months. Specifically, Smart testified that she drank beer to get drunk to have sex with Mitchell, which was daily. They were a 'family' in the same ways that Mormonism, as defined by JS, sets up 'family'.

The officer who asked that Smart's veil be removed was persuaded by Mitchell to do nothing. That officer is also to blame.

As are the participants at the party (China Blue) when Mitchell allegedly was rough with Smart and they tolerated Mitchell's up-on-a-chair rant regarding hell, visions, etc., instead of rescuing Smart.

The cult that motivated Elizabeth's father to expose his family to predators of all kinds, not just Brian Mitchell, is the same cult we discuss here. Too bad people just want 'good news' and won't look beneath the motivations for why a father would throw his family to the wolves, why a girl would easily follow a Prophet (Smith, Mitchell, whomever) and why Utah society tolerates and in fact, celebrates rapists, paedofiles, and schizoids.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 07:45PM

BS. He foolishly tried to help the homeless by giving them jobs. He also claimed that Mitchell only worked outside and was not allowed in the house.My dad who was a never Mo who didnt like Mormons at all did similar things. My dad also picked up hitchhikers. Not smart, but it had nothing to do with Mmormonism. Lots of people do ill advised things and the church isnt responsible for every stupid thing people do.

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 07:51PM

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Lots of people do ill advised things and the church isnt
> responsible for every stupid thing people do.

We are talking about Mormons, bona dea. No need to go global on this one.

Further, 'responsible' people do not join cults, nor teach their children to Hail to the Man.

Smart's father raised her as a proper Mormon. They were just unlucky enough to live the Joseph Smith family experience more than they bargained.

Why did Emma Smith's father protest her alliance with Joe so much? Why did they have to elope?

Good fathers don't throw their daughters to the wolves. That includes the wolves in sheep's clothing Jesus warned against.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 08:44PM

I stand by what I said. I dont agree with you at all.He made an ill advised decision when he hired Mitchell without checking him out, but lots of people dont bother to run a background check on every person who comes into contact with their family. Mitchell was not allowed in the house and apparently saw Elizabeth through a skylight. Her father didnt even know Mitchell had seen her. That is hardly'throwing his daughter to the wolves'. Have you checked out every carpet layer or plumber who comes into your house? Have you ever sold anything through a newspaper or online and had prospective buyers come to your home. to see the item? I have and so have plenty of people I know. Since Elizabeth was kidnapped I am a lot more cautious though. Perhaps you should read some of the books written about the case and stop being so quick to judge people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2018 08:53PM by bona dea.

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Posted by: anon28 ( )
Date: April 08, 2018 05:14PM

I mean...Mormonism doesn't help. But her reaction to the rape, to get drunk to deal with it and not fight back, was the norm for long-term rape victims. Not the exception. Especially for women and other vulnerable people (smaller people, disabled people, etc.) who are unlikely to be able to physically fight people off. Her virginity was taken by a rapist, an older man she considered a family friend, and then she was repeatedly threatened and raped by him in ways supported by his wife, and trapped in remote areas while it happened to her over and over again. Do you seriously think that *Mormonism* was the main factor in her behavior in that situation?

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Posted by: loislane ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 02:35PM

I remember reading the book "Bringing Elizabeth Home," written by Elizabeth's parents.

What I remember most about their tale was how the WHOLE world took notice of the situation and how the WHOLE world rejoiced when it turned out that Elizabeth was found, that she was safe, and that she seemed to be handling her situation with grace. Messages of good will came to the Smarts from all over the eworld.

The Smarts were inundated with flowers, gifts, and rejoicing. The Elizabeth Smart story had taken the world by storm. Whether she liked it or not Elizabeth was a huge celebrity.

She could have asked for privacy, faded into the woodwork, pleaded for a life of obscurity.

Instead she chose to go public with her story, but strictly on her own terms. Good for her.

I don't think she is aiming to get as much money out of this as possible. I think she realizes that fate has put her in a unique position, and that she is choosing to use that position to do as much good as possible.

This is a story that the whole world followed. Everyone (including her parents) thought she must be dead. When it turned out that she was very much alive, and that she had survived her ordeal and made the best of the life she had yet to live, the world rejoiced. Plus, her captors were brought to justice. When justice is achieved, everyone feels better about the world we all must live in.

The world needed some good news when Elizabeth was found alive. Whatever she chooses to make of her experience, she seems to be doing nothing but good.

Lois

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Posted by: doyle18 ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 02:50PM

loislane Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> This is a story that the whole world followed.
> Everyone (including her parents) thought she must
> be dead. When it turned out that she was very
> much alive, and that she had survived her ordeal
> and made the best of the life she had yet to live,
> the world rejoiced. Plus, her captors were
> brought to justice. When justice is achieved,
> everyone feels better about the world we all must
> live in.
>

That's true, since in my area around the time Elizabeth Smart was first kidnapped, there was another stranger abduction, only in that case, the victim was murdered in the end. Many other kidnapping cases end that way, so the world rejoiced that Elizabeth Smart beat the odds and managed to survive the ordeal. I do agree that one reason she didn't try to escape sooner was the teachings that she was now a "licked cupcake" and was afraid of not being accepted back into Mormon society. That's probably why she's writing books and speaking about what she went through, in an attempt to get the sex cult to change.

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 08:21PM

doyle18 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's probably why she's writing books
> and speaking about what she went through, in an
> attempt to get the sex cult to change.

Then do not go on a mission REPRESENTING the 'sex cult'.

That's a good way to change things: start with oneself.

And, don't give the 'sex cult' your money (tithe) either. Sure as hell don't raise your kids in it.

Oops!

But hey, the Mormon religion was only FOUNDED by a sex predator! He forced himself on at least one 14 year old but we don't care about that.

Wear the nametag, 'Sister Smart' and try to convince Parisians and the rest of the known world that Mormonism is the way to go.

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Posted by: anon28 ( )
Date: April 08, 2018 05:07PM

She has also directly spoken out against the slut shaming in Mormonism. Repeatedly. The fact that she remains Mormon does not make her messages worthless. In fact, she is probably helping girls who are still Mormon immensely because they wouldn't listen to some ex-Mormon about anything. I would personally rather see people stay Mormon but feel more confident about their sexuality than leave and feel guilty; things are more complex than just Mormon=bad and non-Mormon=good.

And are people really claiming she would have fought back if she wasn't Mormon?! I wasn't raised Mormon and as a virginal teen, if someone like this had kidnapped me there's no way in hell I'd have been gutsy enough to fight back. When I was raped at 22, I did not fight back physically, though I screamed no, because I was afraid I would be killed. MANY victims do not fight back because they freeze, because they are afraid for their lives or being beaten, because they are afraid they'll be made to do even riskier or more intense sexual things, because they don't think they're strong enough and it's better to dissociate, etc. This is common. Probably more common than fighting back.

Are we really still having to explain this in 2018?

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: April 08, 2018 07:00PM

Amen. There are certainly some misinformed and Mormon hating people here.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 05:04PM

If she does well enough, she might (or Has) start an educational foundation, Good On Her!

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 07:57PM

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If she does well enough, she might (or Has) start
> an educational foundation, Good On Her!

The Elizabeth Smart Foundation has existed for years.

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Posted by: britintexas ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 10:20PM

I wonder why she never uses her married name?

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 10:34PM

britintexas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder why she never uses her married name?

Because it confusingly dilutes the value of her now-professional name.

Once you become (or develop into) a public persona, it is important to pick one single version of whatever is your preferred "professional name" and then stick with that name in all of your professional work...although the text will often, simultaneously, mention that you are married to [your husband's name].

[It could also be that she has decided that her legal name is the name she uses for her books, etc. Plenty of female authors have professional AND legal names that do not contain any part of the names of their spouses.]

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: April 08, 2018 02:20AM

britintexas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder why she never uses her married name?

ummmmmm because it would not be smart !

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: April 08, 2018 02:26AM

smirkorama Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> britintexas Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I wonder why she never uses her married name?
>
> ummmmmm because it would not be smart !

:D :D :D

Kudos to you, smirkorama!!!

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: April 08, 2018 03:07PM

I watched her TED talk. It’s great that she’s been able to have a great life after a horrendous ordeal.

Her message was that all trauma survivors could have a great life—they just had to be as smart and positive as she is.

I know some people find her inspiring. I find her arrogant. Like a lot of Mormons, she gives herself credit for the good things in her life. Things that are largely good luck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2018 03:08PM by Dorothy.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 Unregistered. ( )
Date: April 08, 2018 04:12PM

I applaud anyone who has the confidence and self-assurance and just plain old grit to go public about their personal experiences, in this case, kidnapping and rape. There is an audience that will find it helpful in many ways. She is a living example of how it is possible to survive horrific experiences as a child and go on to live a productive life. She is an example of hope. Those who have suffered horrific experiences need a positive example of recovery and that she is!

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Posted by: anon28 ( )
Date: April 08, 2018 04:58PM

Frankly, I don't see the problem in her monetizing her trauma.

If I'd gone through what she's been through and people were willing to pay me for it, I'd use that to make money for my family too! There wouldn't be any money if there was no willing paying audience. At least that's making something good out of her terrible experiences.

How is this any different from using your family background, education or random inherited traits such as looks or IQ to further your financial status? If anything this is MORE understandable and moral than the people who get trust funds or are legacy students at Harvard and move on to plush careers in finance. She went through trauma most of us can never imagine and it will harm her repeatedly throughout her life no matter what she does or what therapy she gets. Why not get money from it?!

It's called capitalism.

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Posted by: logan ( )
Date: April 09, 2018 02:15PM

anon28 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Frankly, I don't see the problem in her monetizing
> her trauma.
>
> If I'd gone through what she's been through and
> people were willing to pay me for it, I'd use that
> to make money for my family too! There wouldn't be
> any money if there was no willing paying audience.
> At least that's making something good out of her
> terrible experiences.
>
> How is this any different from using your family
> background, education or random inherited traits
> such as looks or IQ to further your financial
> status? If anything this is MORE understandable
> and moral than the people who get trust funds or
> are legacy students at Harvard and move on to
> plush careers in finance. She went through trauma
> most of us can never imagine and it will harm her
> repeatedly throughout her life no matter what she
> does or what therapy she gets. Why not get money
> from it?!
>
> It's called capitalism.


So women should start writing books about their rape experience instead of getting jobs?

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: April 09, 2018 02:18PM

logan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> So women should start writing books about their
> rape experience instead of getting jobs?

Definitely! It worked for Jessica Hahn! It also usually gets you an invite to pose nude but then Playboy is doing so poorly these days so maybe you get to just do a book tour and be a YouTuber like Smart, McGowan, et al.

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Posted by: logan ( )
Date: April 09, 2018 02:50PM

carameldreams Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> logan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > So women should start writing books about their
> > rape experience instead of getting jobs?
>
> Definitely! It worked for Jessica Hahn! It also
> usually gets you an invite to pose nude but then
> Playboy is doing so poorly these days so maybe you
> get to just do a book tour and be a YouTuber like
> Smart, McGowan, et al.

yeah I guess so, I suspect we will see a lot more of this type thing.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: April 09, 2018 02:59PM

logan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So women should start writing books about their
> rape experience instead of getting jobs?

As a writer, who grew up among writers, and is married to a writer...

I object, in defense of all writers who have ever lived.

You don't think that writing is "a job"??????

If so, you obviously don't know any writers!!

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: April 09, 2018 03:15PM

Tevai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If so, you obviously don't know any writers!!

Do you use a ghostwriter as Smart did for, 'My Story'? A Mormon ghostwriter? Elizabeth's beloved father introduced them. Just as he introduced Brian Mitchell to the family.

'Writing' varies, 'writers' vary. There isn't one way. Ghostwriters for autobiographies help a lot.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2018 03:20PM by carameldreams.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: April 09, 2018 03:51PM

carameldreams Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tevai Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > If so, you obviously don't know any writers!!
>
> Do you use a ghostwriter as Smart did for, 'My
> Story'? A Mormon ghostwriter? Elizabeth's beloved
> father introduced them. The same dad who
> introduced Brian Mitchell to the family.
>
> 'Writing' varies, 'writers' vary. There isn't one
> way. Ghostwriters for autobiographies help a lot.

This is a complex question.

I have ghosted for people...and some other, lifetime career, writers I know have made (in effect) entire careers out of ghosting for "name" celebrities (some of these "name celebrities," who also have their own writing credits, have been regularly mentioned here on RfM throughout the years).

When these particular "name celebrities" cite their professional (writing, etc.) credits, they DO cite the works which were ghosted (but came out under solely their own by-lines---usually, in the book, with an effusive mention in the Acknowledgements section about how the celebrity just "could not have done it" without the helpful assistance, or whatever, of [person doing the actual writing]).

On the other end of the scale, NON-fiction such as Elizabeth Smart's books are, is essentially (and virtually always) a true collaboration between the celebrity and the writer of the manuscript, and requires mostly the same amount of time and effort. (It is a VERY tedious job for both.)

Fiction (novels, etc., actually written by someone else) is a different "kind" of writing than non-fiction like biography, because this means (often) that the ghostwriter is the actual creator. (Meaning: in large part, the plot arc (etc.) are coming either from the writer who is actually writing the fiction work...or, also often, the editor who has bought it.)

With fiction, the ghost is (most often) the "real" writer (as most people would see it).

But non-fiction is a real collaboration---especially given that the co-writer cannot just invent the narrative arc... dialogue...situations...details, etc. All of that which goes into a non-fiction book (in most cases) has to come from the subject of the book---which means that the subject of the book IS, equally, CREATING the book...which means, in actual legal terms, that that person is (at the very least) "an" author of the work.

As someone who has co-written non-fiction biography with a subject, I know how much work is involved for the subject, and how onerous this work can be for that person, especially if the story involves the things NO ONE wants to talk about (the instance I am thinking about now, when I collaborated on this kind of subject, involved long-term incest).

All of this IS work!!!

Work for the person who lived the story, and work for the "as told to" writer alike.

If "YOU" (anyone who is not already a professional writer) worked on a mass market non-fiction book about your own life experiences with an "as told to" writer, YOU would think it is work too!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2018 03:57PM by Tevai.

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: April 09, 2018 04:01PM

Tevai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> As someone who has co-written non-fiction
> biography with a subject, I know how much work is
> involved for the subject, and how onerous this
> work can be for that person, especially if the
> story involves the things NO ONE wants to talk
> about (the instance I am thinking about now, when
> I collaborated on this kind of subject, involved
> long-term incest).

Then how does the original publishing deal happen? If the subject doesn't want to talk?

Publishing houses aren't typically therapy offices so if truly 'NO ONE', including the victim wants to talk, why do we have a near-endless stream of extremely detailed books regarding such subjects?

No doubt Smart needed a Mormon man to truly understand and 'collaborate' on her autobiography. A priestholder.

As far as work, posing for Playboy and doing a book tour, especially so many interviews IS WORK. Photo ops, travel, TED talks - WORK!

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: April 09, 2018 04:21PM

carameldreams Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then how does the original publishing deal happen?
> If the subject doesn't want to talk?

There are many different ways deals can happen. They can begin with an editor (usually at a "New York house")...or an agent...or a publicist...or an attorney who represents one of the (eventual) parties. If the subject doesn't want to talk, then the deal wouldn't happen in the first place.


> Publishing houses aren't typically therapy offices
> so if truly 'NO ONE', including the victim wants
> to talk, why do we have a near-endless stream of
> extremely detailed books regarding such subjects?

Money (for the non-pro subjects)...or credits (for the professionals involved). Credits for the professionals can be more valuable than the money involved in a specific project, because those credits can then be used to get the work you REALLY want to do, or to establish the professional connections you REALLY want to create.


> No doubt Smart needed a Mormon man to truly
> understand and 'collaborate' on her autobiography.
> A priestholder.

I know nothing about this.



> As far as work, posing for Playboy and doing a
> book tour, especially so many interviews IS WORK.
> Photo ops, travel, TED talks - WORK!

You better believe it is work!!! I have "been there" on photo shoots (not any for PLAYBOY), and they can be extremely difficult, and on all kinds of levels. Book tours can be enormously hard work (especially if the celebrity person doing the tour is not an extrovert).

This kind of business travel...TED talks...Yes: WORK!

Exhaustively draining work, much of the time.

Sometimes you just want to cry...or die.

It can be better (for extroverts, especially) after you have had food and sleep, but there really are times on the road when you just want to die.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: April 09, 2018 04:08PM

She also works on television and has a contract..

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