Guys... I'm not sure we're going to make it. I'm like 65-70% positive she's gonna leave me over this. I am being the best husband ever, have gotten us a couples therapist and even got her her own private therapy sessions.

The lack of love I feel is terrible. Sex is starting to dwindle (surprised we kept it up as well as we did for as long as we did), she's very snappy and rude to me all the time, we can barely talk without her breaking down into tears-- the worst part is she 100% blames me and reminds me of that every single day.

Harder even is that she tells me I'm breaking my promises I made in the temple to her. I read over the temple words and I really want to know exactly what I'm breaking here.

What are "all the laws, rites, and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant" as mentioned in the sealing. Aren't these law of consecration, chastity, etc? Weren't those more promises to God than her?

I guess in a sense yes I'm breaking those, but in my heart and by my actions I have done nothing but love and respect her and her continued faith. It's so hard for her to love and respect me and mine.

I read an article online about what to do if your spouse wants a divorce and you don't. The two big points I took away were 1, stop begging for them to stay and 2, stop pressuring them.

Giving this a shot and trying to stay calm. Thank god I graduate in a week and a half-- I can't focus

mightybuffalo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read an article online about what to do if your
> spouse wants a divorce and you don't. The two big
> points I took away were 1, stop begging for them
> to stay and 2, stop pressuring them.

I'm with a believing wife. This is really really really good advice.

I was prepared to leave when I came out to her.

We are all different. If she can't see the pros in the collapsing Celestial Marriage I doubt your marriage will survive.

My wife saw that I was the same good guy that she married Celestially after I left. It is why we are still together.

Hoping she sees that in me. Thanks for the comment

mightybuffalo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What are "all the laws, rites, and ordinances
> pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the
> New and Everlasting Covenant" as mentioned in the
> sealing. Aren't these law of consecration,
> chastity, etc? Weren't those more promises to God
> than her?

You are specifically breaking The Law of Consecration and The Law of The Gospel. Chastity requires sexual relations whatever those are.

But if you resign/get excommunicated you break all your covenants by default including any marriage ones. This is why I haven't resigned. It would effectively be cancelling a Celestial Marriage Sealing.

Cancelling the “sealing”?? No, resigning doesn’t do that oddly enough.
After my divorce and subsequent resignation, my ex wanted to get remarried in the temple. I got a letter from LDS Corp because they needed to cancel our sealing so she could remarry. This was AFTER I had resigned. So I would say no, resignation does NOT cancel your sealing.

Ha that blows my mind. No clue how that makes sense to even the TBM's

gettinreal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got a
> letter from LDS Corp because they needed to cancel
> our sealing so she could remarry.

Interesting. Even after resignation they are patriarchal. Bastards.

I think they just take that as they have all the power. No matter how much we might love them. I've talked about my marriage and it was destined to fail no matter what. (Now he lives downstairs and has for about 10 years, which is what I asked him to do while raising the kids).

I can at least say this, I wouldn't want to stay if that is how she is treating you.

I was showing some pictures to my son's girlfriend some years back and I came across these pictures my ex wanted to take of us in the back yard. I could tell in those pictures that he had completely disconnected from me. I could tell in his eyes. I didn't see it that day. He just wanted pictures of he and the kids. You don't have kids, which is a really good thing. You can find someone else if this doesn't work out.

I would at least print out a copy of the temple ceremony and think about sitting it out somewhere in the house. People change. It's a fact. If she wants to give up a good guy and go shopping yet again in mormonism, more power to her. Has she really taken a look around. Tell her to check out a single adult dance down there in Utah VAlley and see what there is out there.

"Tell her to check out a single adult dance down there in Utah VAlley and see what there is out there."

That's the best advice yet!

Ha-ha-Ha-ha-Ha-ha-ha!!

Been there done that. I never would have had anything to do with the dances, except I was a faithful TBM, and my calling was with the stake single adults, and we had to take our turn hosting the regional dances (which was mostly police work.)

IMO, Mormons are more crazy and defective than other people. Your wife is not likely to find a doctor or a professional man, who is single. Mormons are gold-diggers (just like JS) at heart, and men with money can take their pick--hey, that's YOU! Only, you're not a Mormon, so you will have more normal, sane single women to choose from. Your prospects look better, going out and finding new happiness, rather than beating the dead horse of Mormonism.

I know what it's like, looking into vacant eyes. I know how it is being married to someone who just doesn't care. One ex beat me, and the other cheated on me. I didn't know about the cheating, but I did know he was never there for me and our children. As the years passed, he became more and more passive-aggressive and verbally abusive. The children were afraid of him, and regarded him as a stranger. He never went to their ball games or school performances--he just didn't give a damn. He didn't help around the house, didn't listen to the kids, never had a conversation. He would eat the dinners I made every night, invite his friends and family over to our house, because it was nice, and would go on vacations with us, which I paid for. He told me that he liked having me as a geisha-girl and live-in maid, babysitter, cook, and maid. He treated his children as though they were "things" or pets, and not real people, at all. I went into therapy (he would not) and got help in how to include him in the positive aspects of being a parent, and he did enjoy the fun times. He never picked out a gift for anyone, never paid a compliment, no matter how great his children were.

I would not wish that kind of marriage on my siblings or my children, or my self. I am so much happier single.

Your unhappiness is UNNECESSARY! Just like most of the cult boredom, busywork, expenses, and abuse is UNNECESSARY. There is no God who is telling you to stay in this marriage. God has nothing to do with your wife's delusions and selfish, mean behavior. Cut your losses, and move on:

While you are still young.
Before you have children.
Before your wife finds someone else
Before she runs out of manipulative tactics and resorts to abuse.
Before she finds someone else, and leaves you, anyway.

She will always be looking for that perfect, Mormon eternal companion. All she needs to do is run into a man who can pretend to be all those things, and she will choose him over you.

You need to LISTEN to her and talk honestly to her. What does your wife really want? Does she just cry, and not talk to you at all? Try leaving Mormonism out of it, and find out what she wants of her real life in the real world. Ask her flat-out if she loves you.

Face the facts!

The Truth is, we deserve better than the cult. Most good human beings deserve to be loved. We want to give love, to take care of others, bring happiness into people's lives, to help others--and have just a tiny bit of it reciprocated.

Your wife is violating the marriage vows, and she is violating your human rights, when she treats you like dirt. All of this (and also withholding of sex) is grounds for divorce--even without the "issue" of religion.

Let her know that she needs to stop crying and carrying on like a spoiled child who isn't getting 100% of everything she wants. This is real life. Her children won't be perfect, either, so probably she won't love them as she should, either.

I think you know all of this, and want out of the marriage. Don't feel guilty! Half of all married couples end up getting divorced. Divorce literally saved my life, twice.

Your wife sounds a lot like my ex wife. Lots of women (and men as well) in the LDS church put loyalty to the church ahead of EVERYTHING else... and I mean EVERYTHING. So if you're no longer believing, you've nullified your wife's celestial meal ticket. In her eyes, you've shattered your eternal family and there's no coming back from that because she's been indoctrinated with that silly, stupid, pie-in-the sky Disney-a-fied version of a happily ever after-life - even though there's nothing different in any other religion - Mormons just throw some bastardized Masonic clothing and funny handshakes around the whole idea.

While people certainly can change, this has all the earmarks of what my marriage looked like a few months before we finally separated. What finally made me realize it had to end was that I HATED who I was when I was with her - and I told her as much.

That was the end for me and my ex.

Life has been MUCH better since.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2018 03:06PM by enigma.

Thanks for your perspective. I'm prepping myself for either choice she makes. Prepared to make this work, and also prepared to move on.

I feel bad because she complains about making the decision on her own. But, as I told her, my decision is to make it work. If we're going to split it will be her call-- unless she chooses to stay and make life a living hell, then I'll reconsider. Trying to be patient and tell myself that she is just in mourning and that is why its been hurtful. Who knows.

I don't really feel hate towards the church in any way except for the fact that it trains its members to put church before marriage.

buff, something to think about...

The prototypical mormon reaction to someone not doing what they want is to try and influence them to "come back to the straight and narrow." As other stories on this board clearly show, they do this in various ways: the silent treatment, belittling, "tough love," etc. It's what they've been taught to do. What they haven't been taught is how ineffective those tactics are.

In this case, I suspect someone (your in-laws?) have advised your wife to try to bring you back using the "withhold your affection" tactic. Maybe they convinced her that this would bring you back eventually, and that she has to be "strong" to make it work.

From the little I know, it seems that way to me, anyway. If that's the case, the sooner she knows this tactic won't work, the sooner she might give it up.

Or she could really have given up on you. I don't know.

Hang in there.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or she could really have given up on you. I don't
> know.

mightybuffalo might already. I knew that my wife wanted to stay after a couple of months. It might be obvious from the start (enigma's knowing he didn't like the person he was) or it might take years to finally have the other shoe drop. I'm still waiting. I have no regrets. It is the harder choice. Staying with someone you love and thereby continuing to entangle yourself in something you hate.

> Hang in there.

Great advice.

One thing I have gleaned from all the stories similar to mine is it takes more than "the church" to have the marriage collapse. It might have been the only thing holding it together but when it goes from the mind of one spouse, it exposes all sorts of things in the mind of the other. They hurt like they've been cheated on. It tests their resolve to be with a partner who fundamentally changed the rules.

For the moment, you are stuck in Happy Valley, surrounded by morgobots in whose eyes you are something less than acceptable. I was once in the same spot, and believe me, I was miserable. The Mormon life I'd led up to that point just wasn't working for me, and the coed who'd been stringing me along during all my years at BYU had just announced that she had at long last found a worthy mate. The two of them married in the temple (evidently the hymen grew back) and now they live in Provo and are proud of their arch conservative political views.
Me? After wandering in the wilderness for a couple of years, I discovered that there's really nothing wrong with me. I made new friends and established new social contacts. My physical appearance even changed! I met a lovely girl in the Peace Corps, and recently we celebrated our 48th year together. No telling how miserable and filled with regret I'd be today had I had the great misfortune of having been found "acceptable" according to Mormon norms.
Look forward to graduation day, my friend, and then medical school. It'll be a great adventure of self-discovery. If your wife doesn't want to tag along, fine. If she's unhappy, let her go. We ALL have a constitutional right to the pursuit of happiness. Good luck!

Eight months into our temple marriage my bride told me she had made a mistake marrying me. I was still TBM at the time, but she told me that she had married too young, should have finished college before getting married, I had robbed her of her “college experience”, she should have married someone more spiritual, that she should have married a returned missionary, etc.. All this from the person who asked ME to marry her!!

I should have left her right then, but I was young, dumb, scared, and believed I was in an “eternal” marriage. The counsel we got from our Bishop was worthless (“All young couples go through tough times”). I should have left her right then.

For me, I couldn’t get past the hurtful things she had said to me. It was at that point that our relationship went in different directions. Resentment ruled our marriage. There were no feelings or emotions when it came to intimacy. Considering the frequency of sex (maybe once every two or three months) amazingly we had four kids (and she cussed me out for it being "my fault" when she was pregnant with the last).

I became a shell of myself. The fun, happy-go-lucky, loving, caring, passionate person I once was was replaced by a bitter, uncaring, unloving, mean spirited cold hearted man. My workplace became my cave because I didn’t want to go home. I’m sure my kids suffered because of my absence. There were times when I would go to bed late at night, see my wife laying there asleep, and think, “Life would be so much better if you were dead. Why can’t you just die?”

I knew there was NO WAY I would remain married “for time”, let alone for eternity. I thought I could stay in my marriage though “for the kids”… until they were grown and out of the house. I didn’t make it. One day after an argument (another surprise since we RARELY spoke to each other), I had had enough and left her. I dumped the church at the same time.

I felt like Andy Dufresne in the movie “Shawshank Redemption” emerging from a tunnel of shit and then standing looking skyward with outstretched arms in the cleansing rain. After 19 years of a shit marriage I was on the road to being my true self again. Before long I was once again the kind, caring, loving, warm, emotional person that I had been years ago. My employees were confused…they wondered if aliens had abducted the old Jaxson and replaced him with a newer, nicer model. I rekindled an old relationship from 20 years in the past who always loved and adored me for the person I was. I should have married her instead way back when (ahhhh…the mistakes of youth).

I share my story because I don’t wish for anyone to go through what I did. Get whatever help you need, but if you are being hurt and treated poorly now…those are difficult things to overcome. At some point you will know deep down where things are headed. Don’t hold onto hope for too long. Although you are scared of the unknown beyond your marriage, you would be surprised at the many opportunities that await you. If someone would have told me that at your age, I wouldn’t have believed them. It took me 19 years of being in a crap marriage before realizing and taking the chance on those opportunities. Don’t be like me.

Best of luck to you.

Thank you for your story. Noted.

Mr. Buffalo, graduate, get your diploma and then move out. I'm nevermo, but I think the only way you're going to get a handle on the situation is to separate from it for a bit.

IIRC, you're going to medical school shortly. I think you should concentrate on school and let your wife figure out if she wants to stay married and if so, she can come to you in the city you're schooling in. Med School is going to do it's best to break you. You probably don't need the extra aggravation of dealing with a wife who isn't sure she wants to stay.

Be VERY glad you don't have children to complicate things.

You did get married for time and eternity and took Mormon vows, didn't you? Your wife has a point but enough of that. Everybody that leaves a marriage thinks it can end amicably. Sorry, not true, you will take a beating one way or another. Your wife is a TBM and trust me, you are out gunned. Day after graduation, put your clothes in your car and drive. Leave her everything including the dog. Yes, it will hurt for a while, but you will survive and eventually have a happy life.

That may be the case in most instances but it's not ALWAYS true (but in saying that, it's best to err on the side of caution). In the case of the actual divorce, I was one of the lucky ones. For all of my ex wife's issues with respect to Mormonism and her general coldness towards me, she really did have the best interest of our children at heart and we actually did separate amicably.

She didn't do anything unreasonable in the divorce - in fact, we did it ourselves without lawyers and just had a few (uncomfortable at times) meetings about how to divvy up what few assets we had. And she WANTED me in the kids lives and I've been a fixture for over 10 years now for my kiddos. They KNOW that (in addition to being with me frequently every week) dad is just a 5 minute drive or a phone call/text away.

In fact, I'm doing decently enough financially and my ex hasn't tried to go after me for more than what we mutually agreed to as far as child support. I've made sure to be as proactively helpful with crazy unforeseen expenses over and above child support when it comes to the kids and we have a good rapport of running the business of raising the kids together.

But, in saying all of this, I do realize that my experience is the exception, not the rule.

My wife has family that sounds like yours, but on steroids. For pretty much every family gathering, all the exes and kids/stepkids are invited and everybody gets along. Gets along well. They're dysfunctional as hell, but I've never seen an argument when they get together.

I knew (and expected) some of the responses. I know, it can work out. My ex is invited to family gatherings and there are no issues. MB is young and he will make his own decision eventually but I gave a hard answer. Divorce is not always the answer but nor is staying together just because.

This is way out of my field of experience buffalo. Never did the temple thing or the marriage thing. But this would suck if i were in your shoes. It's hard for me to love people and get attached so i never have this problem. The loner badass

I know you are looking for advice more than sympathy but I've got to say that I'm feeling for you in the present situation. And if you do break-up I'm feeling for her in the future because even TSCC admits that for every single female that is lds there just are not enough worthy men to go around. And from experience I can tell you that among the men who present themselves as worthy, they are mostly pretending. My idea of worthy is not the church's of course. I really mean worthy in the sense of being honest, willing to work, straight rather than gay, and a good father as well as husband. Those men are in short supply if she's limiting herself to only LDS. She could have a really difficult time finding another compatible mate.

I'm curious as to how the therapy is going. I'm not prying about specifics but just wondering if she is following the therapist's directions and whether or not you found a non-Mormon therapist. I suppose it would be asking too much for her to have a private therapist who was not LDS (especially in Provo) but for the couples therapist I'd want someone neutral with regard to religion.

With regard to advice, I think Elder Berry is in the best position to tell you what to expect and what works best. He's been there and done that. In addition you might try finding a couple like Elder Berry and his wife to be your friends in real space and time. The wife could give your wife and you some pointers and the husband could be some support to you as well as a good source of suggestions. It could also backfire if the wife tells your wife something like "Get out now. It became too late for me but you still have time". You'd have to play that by ear. It would probably be more successful if you waited to find supportive friends when you get out of Provo.

And regarding Saucie's comments: We are here for support even more than advice. I cannot imagine there are many in Provo willing to support you. This board is the only place I could find anyone who had even remotely gone through what I've gone through. We may not be professionals but we can still feel your pain. I can feel your wife's pain as well. That can make a big difference when you just need a shoulder.

Pooped Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This board is the only place I could find anyone
> who had even remotely gone through what I've gone
> through. We may not be professionals but we can
> still feel your pain. I can feel your wife's pain
> as well. That can make a big difference when you
> just need a shoulder.

Me too. It was the only truly sympathetic place I found. It took me over a decade to find an ExMormon friend here in real life. I went to church with him 15 years ago.

A word of advice on mixed marriages. Like Pooped said finding like couple friends is something probably really nice that would help your wife I haven't found. We make do with friends who both are out or both were never in.

My wife over the years has moved from Mormon friends to Non-Mormon friends. We have a few Mormon couple friends because these Mormons will entertain an apostate. It is a weird world living on the fringe.

She's talked with my SIL who is TBM and married to my brother who is inactive. Butit's tough because they have kids and are in a slightly different enough situation that DW has a hard time relating to my SIL.

Anyone in the provo/orem area wanna meet up sometime that has some experience with this?

Another nevermo here, and I want to echo captainklutz' comments, as they are almost word-for-word what I was thinking as I read through your threads.

Medical school will keep you way more than busy. I went to veterinary school, and it is orders of magnitude more demanding than undergrad, or even most graduate school programs. Trying to pull your wife along and make yourself right for her should be farthest from your mind.

If she wants to share it with you, along with her challenges (law school, right?) that's great. How about some mutual support? We all need that.

But not this other hoohah, based on a body of cockamamie that you can no longer adhere to. You sound like a good guy, trying your best to do the right thing. I wish you well!

Yea you won't find many that understand you in provo or even here in idaho. It has taken me five years to find a real and physical friend in idaho that understood me even a little bit.

Oh, I almost forgot. It is her prerogative to make you feel horrible. If you end up staying together you have to admit that you upended the relationship. You were the one that changed the goal posts. You rearranged your relationship fundamentally.

It took me a long time to admit this to myself. I admitted to others and right away to her LONG before I admitted to myself.

Feeling horrible doesn't make you wrong or bad. It is simply a consequence of adjusting to a new reality and emotionally devastating the people who are living with your reality.

I had three beautiful 8 year olds (they are close and it was within a few years) distraught and in tears and mad at me for days after telling them I wouldn't be baptizing them. That is something no one should have to go through.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2018 05:15PM by Elder Berry.

Buff, you or she MAY become passive-aggressive. If you see any signs of this, let your counselor know ASAP, any try to get it out in the open. If she’s just moody and irritable, that’s something else—it may be due to the stress of graduation and/or moving.

Instead of sex, try intimacy and closeness with offering to give her backrubs and cuddling. Try going on a date, walk, or picnic that will lead to conversation. If she refuses these, it could be a form of passive-agressive behavior.

Its better to argue than to be passve agressive. You probably still love her and she probably still loves you, but PA behaviors are death for a marriage or relationship.

Bro-hugs, Buff! The Boner



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2018 05:20PM by BYU Boner.

Your wife can only see you as a failing husband (blame in your words) because she is indoctrinated to believe finding fault with LDS,Inc. is the loss of a testimony through the only accepted means, ie. sin. She's not open to the idea of you having an awakening to truth nor the church being wrong about anything. Does she think the church is perfect? Ask her.

You know there is no sinning involved in this process and you only want her to see that you have happened upon new truth you knew nothing about when you were married. It's not about you changing or sinning.

Unless she can open her mind even a tiny bit to the idea that you are not a sinner and you may not have done anything wrong, you two are at an impasse. She hasn't done anything truly wrong either. She just cannot fathom the church having any faults or having lied about anything. Can she ever bring herself to trust you as much as she trusts the church? Can she ever bring herself to trust you MORE than she trusts the church? These are the major questions as I see it.

Unfortunately I've been told on many occasions that she lost all trust in me. I don't know if that means she thinks I would become an alcoholic or druggie or a cheater or what, but there's no way I would ever throw my career and life away like that.

What else is there to trust? That I'll love her no matter what? Well thats the damn plan!

anonandanon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not about you changing
> or sinning.

I categorically disagree about the changing part. Not believing anymore is a fairly big change in Mormon marriage.


> Unless she can open her mind even a tiny bit to
> the idea that you are not a sinner and you may not
> have done anything wrong, you two are at an
> impasse. She hasn't done anything truly wrong
> either. She just cannot fathom the church having
> any faults or having lied about anything. Can she
> ever bring herself to trust you as much as she
> trusts the church? Can she ever bring herself to
> trust you MORE than she trusts the church? These
> are the major questions as I see it.

I don't understand how the church is a part of their relationship now that one of them no longer trusts the church?

They are sealed to God. It is through that ceremony that they have a Mormon marriage.

My wife can fathom the church having faults or having lied about anything. She adopted her father's theory that the church has less of them today than when Joe was doing the maid. No matter what Mormons may say, they understand intuitively that their church isn't perfect. It for them is closer to perfect than the other churches. It is the "most true upon the earth."

My wife trusts me and the church both. It can happen. You can actually love people you don't trust as much as others. She knows I will take care of her. She thinks the church will take care of her soul.

He is changing his thinking, not his being. But I get your point. Yes, it is a big change in a Mormon marriage but she seems awfully immature the way she is being so hysterical about his questioning the church.

If she was open enough to think the church might have faults and may have lied, why doesn't she have at least an ounce of sympathy for Buff's sudden realization? She doesn't seem to be understanding of her husband's feelings AT ALL. Your wife did.

I wasn't aware she had been married before. That should have grown her up a bit more than it seems to have. She seems pretty needy if she can't stop crying long enough to have a mature conversation and cannot stop blaming him for being human.

I was thinking of ways to help these two stay together but I'm thinking Buff may be way better off without this child bride. Find a woman when this girl leaves you.

I pretty much echo these sentiments. Divorce feels like the most miserable failure you can make, but it isn't. Especially if there are no kids involved. You two married each other when in a different mindset and she has proven that she can't handle change when you are in the the most change oriented time of your life. This does not bode well for either of you.

Sometimes a trial seperation works.

But might I add this....


Moving to a new place is stressful and scary. Maybe she is afraid that without the church and its assigned friends she'll be isolated. Maybe she feels she'd be shunned in the new ward. Plus she'd be away from family.

Maybe she's afraid you and her would be target of ministering.

Fear can also make people lash out.

Just a though.

Good luck

I’m sorry you’re headed towards graduation, what should be a time of relief, satisfaction, happiness, etc. with this awful situation weighing on you. Are you doing the graduation ceremony? If your wife can’t support you on the day, do you have any friends or family around who can pat you on the back, applaud you, or take you out for a celebratory meal ?

Oddly enough her folks are coming. Mine will be here as well thanks for asking.

Trying to avoid commencement though- Holland is speaking at it and I'm not about to get my pee-pee ripped off and my ears singed with needles before walking...

mightybuffalo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Trying to avoid commencement though- Holland is
> speaking at it and I'm not about to get my pee-pee
> ripped off and my ears singed with needles before
> walking...


Buff....really....Jowels is a good speaker and nobody is going to touch your “PeePee.” Think of the commencement as putting closure on your BYU and Mormon life. Then use your tassel for some serious tickling and foreplay.

Well you may have me convinced boner... we shall see

I’m glad you’ll have your folks. Try to enjoy the day and your accomplishment, ok? Lifting a glass in your honor.

When do you have to start looking for housing in CO?
And how do you know this won't be her go-to style of conflict resolution in every future marital disagreement?
It may be time to set a deadline, either with her or in your own mind, as to how long you will put up with this if nothing changes.
You deserve better, and after a period of intense pain, you will almost certainly find better, if this marriage ends.

Some additional thoughts:
I would check out the divorce laws in the state where you'll be attending medical school, assuming you will be establishing your legal residency there.
In some states, ex-wives who support their husbands financially during all or some of their years in professional programs are entitled to a percentage of their future earnings. This can be a real financial millstone after graduation when you are trying to pay back loans, buy a house, afford to have kids etc.
If she does go to law school she will have access to cheaper and better knowledge of the legal situation.
Also, you mentioned she has already been divorced once. It's concerning that she still displays the behavior you described with one divorce under her belt already.

Good thoughts.

Yeah, look how it turned out for Dan Broderick.

My wife has not been in a previous marriage. I'm her first.

We are already looking into housing and good advice about the legality of this all. I will definitely start looking into it.

I think it's going to come down to, what is number one in her mind? The church or your marriage? Right now it sounds like the church is the most important thing to her. The only way a mixed faith marriage can work is if both partners put the marriage first.

What I wish she could realize is how much people can change over the course of their lives. I am not very much like the sweet, naïve, hopeful girl I was in college. How I was then is not how I am now. I had to toughen up, I had to realize that my thinking then would grow, change, and adapt. In other words, I had to grow up and be tested, often severely, by life.

Mightybuffalo, you need a partner who will put you and your eventual family first in her life. Your wife may or may not be the one to do that.

You are NOT breaking any promises.

No one can hold you to promises made under deceptive conditions in a Mormon temple.
You simply did not have a clear picture.

Moreover, Mormons in general get married too young.
The decisions people make in their early 20s are not the same decisions they would make in their 30s.

Look around once you get into med school - not too many people there would want the additional stress of an early marriage.

Elyse, how do you describe that to a TBM? She's convinced I am basically breaking my marital vows.

Buff

I have read all the ideas, advice and platitudes so far expressed here. For certain-this turmoil, if it continues in Colorado, will have consequences in the classroom. You will need 3-4 hours per night to absorb all the biochemistry, anatomy,neuroscience and physiology they will throw at you that first year. Then you will get hit with even more in depth the second year. If you fall behind there is little chance of catching up-and the system is designed to be unforgiving.

You had mentioned a great job between now and then somewhere-California I think. You, her or both need to decide before that temporary move to California and certainly before moving to Colorado.

It hurts deeply-being rejected for honesty. Parting ways in thus sense shouldn’t be viewed as a failure but more honesty. You realizing you are not the best match for her. Letting go of someone you love is hard but sometimes best....

Gatorman

I feel that pressure gatorman!

Here's the reason why I haven't given her a "deadline" to decide.

First, that article I read recommended NOT pressuring the significant other.

Second, therapist recommended TIME. How much time is enough time? That's the question...

Such a tough situation. Knowing the mind of TBM women, the outlook is bleak. I admire you for having hope and a positive attitude about making it work, though. Afterall, you do love her. The thing is, if you were 20+ years into your marriage and shared children it might be different. My TBM parents have been married for 40+ years. If my dad suddenly decided to leave the church my mother would be beside herself, but I don't think she would divorce him. You are still early enough on in your marriage (and don't have kids binding you) that even though I hate to say it, now may be the BEST time to break apart.

Best of luck to you and congrats on the upcoming graduation :-)

And keep posting here for support. It helps to just talk about it, complain, seek advice, ideas. This is completely what this forum is for. Naysayers be damned!

"Go ahead and divorce me, Love.

"Down the road, upon learning that your religion lied to you and laughed at you, you'll feel like you sold a Van Gogh for $15 at a yard sale."

"But, do what you need to do."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2018 08:42PM by kathleen.

Hooray! What a great idea!

AND THENNNN, tell her:

"That the next guy--the *worthy* one--may take you to the temple, and all will be ducky until the duck starts reading a bit. Then you'll have another one just like me whom you can abuse and make your poor poor parents disappointed yet again."



Top that off with Tina Turner hammering away at "You Better Be Good to Me!" on your cell.


Lyrics:

A prisoner of your love
Entangled in your web
Hot whispers in the night
I'm captured by your spell

Oh yes I'm touched
by this show of emotion
Should I be fractured
by your lack of devotion
Should I, should I?

You better be good to me
That's how it's gotta be now
Cause I don't have no use
For what you loosely call the truth
You better be good to me

I think it's also right
That we don't need to fight
We stand face to face
And you present your case
And I know you keep telling me
that you love me


And I really do want to believe
But did you think I'd just accept
you in blind faith
Oh sure babe,
anything to please you

You better be good to me
That's how it's gotta be now
Cause I don't have the time
For your over loaded lines
You better be good to me

And I really don't see
why it's so hard to be good to me
And I don't understand what's
your plan that you can't be good to me

What I can't feel I surely cannot see,
why can't you be good to me
And if it's not real I do not wish to see,
why can't you be good to me?

You feel guilty because your are the one who left Mormonism. But you aren't the one being mean and spiteful. It doesn't sound to me that you are treating her badly (other than blowing up her Eternal Family dream).

People need to take responsibility for the way they treat others. She can be disappointed that you no longer believe in Mormonism, but that does not justify her treating you badly. Whether you decide to stay or leave this relationship, quit putting up with abusive behavior. What you tolerate, you encourage.

If your wife says something mean to you, tell her that is not okay. If she wants to talk about something in a reasonable respectful manner, fine. But it is not okay for anyone to use you as a verbal punching bag. If she wants to invest all her energy in resentment and distrusting you, then don't wait for her to officially end the marriage. Her actions will have already ended the marriage. One of the two of you is just going to need to be realistic enough in that situation to make it official.

I am sorry that you are going through this, but my advice is not to put up with abusive behavior. It is corrosive. Over time, people become conditioned to put up with it, even as it escalates. Years later, people cannot believe what they allowed to go on. Stand up for yourself now. Insist on respectful treatment. If she can't do that, don't wait for her to divorce you. Divorce her.

In reading enigma's post, I do remember his story well. Enigma, you had a post about those who are in these marriages some years ago, something about "remembering us." And you found happiness after all that.

I also thought my life was over and, lo and behold, the guy I wanted to marry at age 20 was back in my life and still is after 13 years. Longer than I was "married." (I am not divorced, but we have been emotionally divorced voer over 20 years.) My relationship with my boyfriend hasn't always been perfect, but which one is? I dated him at age 20 and he is a nonmormon. I dreamed of him for years and the memories kept me going through some horrible times.

My ex was the one who has been totally unreasonable about finances. He is anal about money. I said before I finally found out what his pension is. It occurred to me then why he has kept it from me. My therapist thinks I would be stupid not to go after it, but I won't. It isn't my way. My kids will get most of it when he dies (he is taking a lump sum). He is very frugal and I can leave that to my kids rather than beating him up for doing what he did to me. I think it is crazy how the ones who leave are the ones who usually are the meanest in divorce.

BUT my point was going to be--oh how I wish the problem in our marriage had been he had lost his testimony. OH HOW I WISH. These women are stupid. I had planned on waiting to have kids until I knew he could be in a straight/gay marriage, but he insisted he wanted kids right away and we had twins. He was a horrible, horrible case of an "ex" for a long time.

I think the ideas of taking a trial separation. That is a real shocker to live with. I don't think this idea of all the parents being there for graduation bodes well for you. It sounds to me like they are going to do an intervention or something. I'd be worried if I were you. I don't trust these mormons.

TSCC makes people feel horrible.

She's just taking it out on you.

She loves you but she "lives" 'the church' more and it's hurting her inside, because she won't open up and live, as you are learning to do, naturally and normally, and blow off steam, rather than press - and depress you.

Mormonisms fairytale ending - not ending - KEEP GOING (on and on and on) track record is spinning silently and uselessly. The blunt needle scratches a groove in normally developing consciousness and loving self growth and causes mostly fruitless frustration, especially with rational thinking and togetherness in reconciling 'the "truth"' with her-your/ THE truth - that the LDSC is a fraud and WANTS YOU TO FIGHT.

M@t

Buff asks:


"Aren't these law of consecration, chastity, etc? Weren't those more promises to God than her?"

That's the rub. When I truly listened to the last part of the temple ceremony where you have to promise to give "...all that you possess...your means, time, talents, etc. and ALL that God has blessed you with (that covers pretty much everything) TO THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS !!!!!! You didn't promise God anything! You promised a fetching corporation they could have your soul. They own you. It may not be a binding legal contract but it's a pretty big emotional contract. And by that trickery they own her.

When I realized that fact I was literally sick inside. I felt like an A #1, first class fool.

In the sealing (marriage) ceremony you are sealed in "The New and Everlasting Covenant" of marriage. Do you and your wife realize that that expression is merely Joseph Smith's way of making Mormons accept polygamy in the early church? We are told that today we are not expected to fulfill that promise we make at marriage because polygamy is against the law of the land. But you will both be expected to fulfill that promise in the next life.

Maybe your wife would like to hear that you don't want any other wives in this life or the next. Just a thought.

“Oh, and there will be no prestigious Mighty Buffalo Medical Complex And Research Center from which to draw alimony checks. Losing you would send me into a greif-induced crime spree where I'd be lucky to get community service picking up dog poop at City Hall and mowing Kathleen’s lawn for $5 every Saturday where she and DH hold their coffee cups and comment, 'He seems so bright!’ Then I'll retire to my shanty at night and work on my novel titled:"

JOSEPH SMITH GOT MY WIFE, TOO
(subtitle) Just call me Henry Jacobs