Sorry if this is a silly question, but it's something that's been in my mind for a while. A lot of these Mormon leaders live into their 90s. Even a lot of the "younger" ones are in their late 80s.

Why do they live so long? I always thought it was unusual. Is it something with the Word of Wisdom or Mormon lifestyle, or is this an example of rich, white men with access to healthcare living longer than the general public?

I'm curious if this has been discussed before.

You only hear about the ones living into their 90's because they're the ones to replace those who've died as living the longest among them.

Sort of like "King of the Hill" game. When one of them goes down, the next one in line is pronounced "King," and the cycle repeats itself.

Overall though, Mormons do have a longer lifespan because of the word of wisdom, according to longevity studies of Utahns. They have lower cancer rates for one.

Does it make up for the high rates of addiction and suicide in its population? Not sure since Utah is statistically at the high end for that population as well.

True. Joseph did set the precedent of holding the official leading office until he died. And then ensuing power struggle/vacuum that Brigham Young rose to fill after his death.

From there on out, it was whoever holds that office, does so until they die with all the perks of the official title of "prophet, seer, and revelator." Which you know all too well through your late grandfather.

Joseph became the "martyr" for the cause of TSCC. His legend grew exponentially in death than it had in his life. He was really a scoundrel memorialized as a sacrificial lamb.

Like most con artists, Joseph shied away from real work. He made his living conning others. He might've had a better life if he'd made an honest living, including being a preacher. That kind of lifestyle eluded him. He loved the thrill of the con over being a regular honest hard working citizen. I don't believe he thought he was going to die as young as he did.. he saw himself invincible as someone above the law. Like the sociopath he was.

He's still conning in death too, all these years (and centuries) later. :( It's the con that keeps on taking.

Or then become mentally and physically inoperative, so it doesn’t really matter whether you die quickly or not. At that point, you’ve essentially been looped out of the loop.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2018 09:50PM by steve benson.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KymFaQlc2hQ, even though he does look like LDS president John Taylor: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_(Mormon)#/media/File%3AJohn_Taylor_seated_in_chair.jpg



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2018 10:58PM by steve benson.

good embalming

I'd say it is statistically inevitable.

You start with a pool of hundreds of thousands of priesthood holding men, give them positions of authority. There must be many thousand bishops, thousands of stake presidents, etc. As they move up through the ranks, some are shoved out, some get ill, the rest get higher and higher authority.

The reason the Q15 are so old is because they survived so long. If they'd had lesser genes, lesser health, they would have died long ago. In the Mormon church, longevity is a prerequisite for the highest offices so it should not be surprising to find it.

This is it. When you reward limited positions strictly by seniority and not merit and the only way to be removed is thru death, the oldest in the pyramid naturally gravitate to the top. The younger candidates have no way to supersede the seniors so they have to wait till they’re older, if they live long enough. The only way to stop the upward age creep would to have mandatory retirement at a certain age. Hasn’t happened ...yet. Another way to influence average age would be to choose very young replacements...like early 40s, but men at that age are still raising kids and such. Also, not many men would want the boring life for 40-50 years. It’s a job for older men.

It’s God’s will that they live so long.

Face it, the world lost its moral compass more than 50 years ago when evils such as race equality, women’s rights, and the acceptance of homosexuality crept into popular thinking. God can’t allow his one true church to be polluted by 1960s and beyond attitudes./s

I hope you’re being facetious.

I am. That’s why I ended the post with “/s”

Ok, thanks..I didn’t know the meaning of the /s. Never too old to learn.

“It depends on what the meaning of /s is.”

+1

These guys are bred by a long list of survivors. The weak ones died of starvation, thirst, and hard conditions out on the trail or under difficult conditions in Utah.

And those genes have been kept pure and delightsome, even if inbred a little.

(Weak gene lines were left on the trek in shallow graves).

Best medical care tithing can buy.

MRM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Best medical care tithing can buy.

Yeeeep.

I agree that having top of the line health care plus servants fixing good food and doing upkeep on the home brings an ease to life and cuts down worries (thanks to tithing money) which a lot of folks in this world don't have or will never see.

I like to theorize that the grind of daily commuting takes its toll. I think daily commuting stresses and ages each and every human body participating in it.

Both Saucie and I are 73 and we don't look it and I credit the fact that neither of us were ever daily commuters as being important. And of course, once you get onto the GA path, commuting becomes a thing of the past.

An absence of 'daily cares' has to be useful to health and wellbeing.

"Only The Good Die Young". Simple.

I'm guessing that it's due to lower rates of smoking and good health care.

According to Wiki, Utah ranks #10 in life expectancy for U.S. states. New York, Massachusetts, New Jersey, and California rank higher.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_life_expectancy

. . . it’s because that’s where more progressive liberal types live.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2018 01:50AM by steve benson.

The good die young for sure in this world. I had some badass friends that died young that deserved to live into their 90's but were to selfless. The scumbags at the top are rich and have access to healthcare whenever they want. This is a touchy subject for me just let me know when they all die. They leech off the young until there is nothing left of us.

Normally, prostate cancer would take them out. But they know that frequent masturbation helps to prevent it.

I have to agree with everyone above. It's mostly because they stay away from coffee, cigarettes, highly caffeinated energy drinks. And it's the story of the upper middle class white corporate man, clean shaved always in good shape well into their 60s, and they have wives who take care of their appearance as well who look decades younger than they are.

Now some will disagree with the coffee thing, but hear me out. I work in a highly physical demanding occupation and see lots of people skipping meals breaks for their coffee or energy drinks. They go a whole day without eating any real food. Coffee has zero nutritional benefits, they are called empty calories, It wears out the body if there is no bread or fruit consumed as well.

anono this week Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to agree with everyone above. It's mostly
> because they stay away from coffee, cigarettes,
> highly caffeinated energy drinks.
>
> Now some will disagree with the coffee thing, but
> hear me out. I work in a highly physical demanding
> occupation and see lots of people skipping meals
> breaks for their coffee or energy drinks. They go
> a whole day without eating any real food. Coffee
> has zero nutritional benefits, they are called
> empty calories, It wears out the body if there is
> no bread or fruit consumed as well.

This reasoning is very flawed. 'mostly because'?? No science in your post whatsoever, just anecdotal, subjective junk.

This thread is about the Prophets who lived longer than average life spans.

And who gives a damn if someone is shaven??

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2018 12:49AM by steve benson.

I would say the science is in what I see, the world is full of opinions and I've told you mine, so now I wonder what's your opinion, do you advocate drinking coffee instead of eating a normal meal?

And I haven't been to church in years btw :)

anono this week Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would say the science is in what I see, the
> world is full of opinions and I've told you mine,
> so now I wonder what's your opinion, do you
> advocate drinking coffee instead of eating a
> normal meal?

What you see is a personal observation, most likely colored by personal limited experience and bias. Which isn't science. Science would include a random sample of large size, elimination of bias, from which statistically significant conclusions could be drawn.

Out in that area, most people in the world don't "replace" a meal with coffee -- they have coffee *with* their meals. And out in the real science area, drinking coffee (with or without meals) has certain health benefits, and certain health detriments. Like almost everything else, it's a trade-off.

In your personal, limited observations, the coffee is largely irrelevant. You've observed people who don't eat well. What they replace a decent, healthy meal with could be coffee (which isn't "empty calories" anyway, it's essentially NO calories). They could replace a healthy meal with water and it wouldn't really matter (also no calories) -- except they'd miss out on the positive aspects of coffee drinking (and the few negatives, none of which are "empty calories").

Me, for example, I start off every morning with coffee and oatmeal. Oatmeal is good for your heart, nutritious, and (as long as you don't add a bunch of sugar) low in calories, but not "empty." Coffee didn't replace anything, it's an addition.
Making me a counterpoint to your personal observations (along with most of the world).

So basically, having coffee and no food for breakfast won't impact your health or longevity (except possibly serve to lower your risk of pancreatic and other cancers, and improve your memory) any more than having water and no food for breakfast...making it incredibly unlikely to be any kind of "reason" mormon GAs appear to be long-lived.

anono this week Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would say the science is in what I see, the
> world is full of opinions and I've told you mine,
> so now I wonder what's your opinion, do you
> advocate drinking coffee instead of eating a
> normal meal?
>
> And I haven't been to church in years btw :)


98% of the time I drink coffee for breakfast and nothing else. It's called intermittent fasting, and it's supposed to be quite healthy.

I fast between meals. So far, so good!

A part of the reason our health care system is in crisis is because modern technology has developed medications and medical procedures that are keeping everyone living to more advanced ages. My mother's skilled care unit has almost all people in their mid to late 90's and about half a dozen who are well into their 100's. This was not the case 50, 40, and even 30 years ago.

It doesn't hurt that the Big 15 get regular medical check-ups and are probably on BP, cholesterol, and diabetes meds that didn't exist two generations ago. Even the meds that did exist back then for these ailments have been greatly improved.

But to throw in an anomaly, my great aunt, who was born in 1883 never did a lick of exercise, drank martinis daily, and was quite a bit overweight in her adult years. She never suffered from dementia. She lived 98 years.

An uncle smoked like a chimney and drank like a fish and lived to be 89.

Let's face it. Genes have a lot to do with it as well.

It's the medical care.

To borrow a quote from Scrubs "that's modern medicine. Keeping people alive that should have died a long time ago."

cftexan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To borrow a quote from Scrubs "that's modern
> medicine. Keeping people alive that should have
> died a long time ago."

Yep and screwing over the younger generations at the same time that couldn't get healthcare.

I believe the stress of worrying about money can really impact your health. They are all financially well off and don't have the worry of paying for medical care, property taxes, food, prescriptions, etc. Everyone would probably look and feel better if they didn't have to worry about a lack of funds.

Nice responses! My guesses:
1) One strong correlate to longevity is conscientiousness. People who are highly conscientious attend to their health. GAs as a group are highly conscientious.
2) At each step of the selection, relative health and vigor are part of the assessment. This means by the time someone is chosen to be an apostle, they are going to be healthier and more vigorous than those not chosen. There is a strong correlation between health and vigor at 50 and lifespan.
3) They have a strong sense of purpose. This makes it so you don't give up when faced with aging or health problems.
4) They are drawn from the highly educated, wealthy population, so they have the extended longevity seen in highly educated population---overlap with conscienciousness here. Highly educated people better resist Alzheimer's and other neurodegenerative diseases.
5) They feel their behavior is strongly pro-social and they are in contact with support systems daily.
6) Hard work. They do as much as they can. This keeps their systems functioning.

Regardless of the truth claims of the church, all of the above items are within our reach in a non-mormon context. We should all pay attention to our health and relationships and live as long as them.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2018 01:51AM by steve benson.

I should do so well Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> 6) Hard work. They do as much as they can. This
> keeps their systems functioning.

Uh...no.

Have you watched Monson in the Wikileaks videos? Eating his little candies or whatever, belly like a frickin' whale against the table?

Propped up at the podium?

Vigor?


> We should all pay attention to
> our health and relationships and live as long as
> them.

What is your basis for lecturing us what we should do and how long we should live?

You are displaying major selection bias.

Yeah--don't be like that Jesus dude. Caused trouble everywhere he went. Life full of conflict, drama, and stress. Barely made it past 30.

If he had just had a healthy respect for bowel movements and proper phytonutrients he might have amounted to something.

https://youtu.be/sO93qyZSa0U



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2018 04:42AM by steve benson.

Weekend at Bernie's

They don't 'live long' or live right.

They live till they die.
They eat pie in the sky.

Don't ask me why.

M@t

Free, excellent health care.

don't they get blessed with the ability to live as long as they desire, or some such? That's bound to have an effect, mentally, even if they don't really believe. They probably still want to.

Not to mention never smoking or drinking, and being treated like rock stars. They probably get a boost from that.

In any case, the top 15 are getting younger, as a group. In the process of getting up to speed on what's happened since I've been away from the board, I noticed one of the new apostles is only 2 years older than me ... just under 2 years, actually.

That gave me a little heart attack, because it's always been my thing that the leaders are so old. So I made a spreadsheet. Current average age: 74.2.

One, Nelson, is in his nineties; three are in their eighties; four, in their seventies; and six in their sixties. And Soares is 59 ... gak! But I dare say he looks more than 2 years older than I do.

They all look old, and act old, and are still old. And they'll still all be old the next time one of them dies and they pick a new one who's younger than me. Unfortunate first that that may be. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2018 06:08PM by munchybotazv2.

The US state with the highest life expectancy is Hawaii -- 81.3 years.
California comes in 4th, at 80.8 years.
Utah comes in 11th, at 80.2 years, beaten out by such "heathen" states/territories as Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, and Puerto Rico.

There's nothing magical about Utah's life expectancy (despite the WoW) or the church's leaders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_life_expectancy

As a comparison

The Roman Catholic church has 16 Cardinals in their 90s, the oldest is 99.

Because they know it's a crock and they are afraid to meet the Maker.

Stephen Covey ('7 Habits of Highly Successful People', etc.) could have ascended the ranks to Profit.

But he had a head injury (bicycle accident in Provo) and died at 79.

The church pays good money to keep these old fuckers alive and keep the tithing coffers full of cash.

..maybe you could ask some of the homeless people who have frozen to death in the shadow of the City Creek Center Luxury Condo Tower .....that is largely unoccupied. Maybe they would know!!!

I just hope that every need of every MORmON ASSpostHOLE and general authority is met in abject and utter over abundance since those guys talk about Jesus so often for us. What would we do with out them ??????

It's not long life they're after
Nor a good life they seek
But a life filled with emptiness
And altered life, on the alter

A starting line and a finish line
Dotted lines and connect the dots
Color by number - multiple choice
Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't wanna know

It's not the quality of time
But a race to the finish line
To live longer, not stronger
To live stranger, not familiar

M@t

I've seen research that indicates upper income folks live longer. This Time article, for example, cites a study published in The Lancet (http://time.com/4729816/income-inequality-health-longevity/).

They also don't smoke. Tobacco use is linked with all kinds of horrific health consequences, many resulting in an early death.

They don't drink. While moderate alcohol intake is a benefit, very heavy drinking is hell on the body, again result in a premature death.

Just some theories. That and as the old farts move up the food chain, they receive news coverage, and that makes us notice their age. (shrug)

Only the good die young.

You never heard of Faust?