I joined the LDS Church in 1979. I went to my first LDS bookstore in 1981, I think. Nobody told me that Mormons had their own bookstores. Nobody told me anything except how to pay tithing. That's it. Anyway, I went to the first LDS bookstore, and I saw lots of books by "Paul H. Dunn": who was a Seventy. I think in the Presidency of the Seventy, which, at that time, was called "The First Seven Presidents of the First Quorum of Seventy". Of course, there weren't "70" members in the "Quorum of Seventy". Not now, not then. I think there were about 34 or so. The "other" quorums of Seventy were considered the Stake Seventies, which were just men about 30 to 40 who thought they knew more about missionary work than the missionary department did. Anyway, it was 1981.

I first saw books, LOTS of books, by "Paul H. Dunn". I didn't know who he was. So, I bought one of his books, and found out he was a "Seventy" and that he had been in World War II, was wounded upteen times, saved upteen lives, was among only 3 survivors in his entire company to survive the war, played for the St. Louis Cardinals, etc. Wow. Yet, I felt there was something "wrong" about his message. I did not feel the Gospel was about "how to be a success in life" or about "feel good" stuff. I didn't see it that way. Most Mormons did. For most Mormons, the Gospel of Jesus Christ was about "getting stuff from God"...basically, God helping you get "the Good Life" as well as being able to bang lots of women in the celestial kingdom: including your "most beautiful" spirit-daughters.

I didn't see it like that, at all. To me, the Gospel of Jesus Christ was about Jesus dying for YOU, so that you had to return the favor, by doing what He said: which was treating everyone by the Golden Rule, and by helping others. Service to others. Most Mormons I knew, didn't see it like that at all.

Anyway, I frequented Mormon bookstores for years. I was so poor, that I'd read the books right there in the store. I'm sure store owners hated me. I'd rarely, very rarely, buy a book. I'd fine one of the few chairs in the store, and read a few books. I was poorer than poor. Paid a full tithe, but was still poor. Most Mormon bishops think THAT is impossible. If you give God (i.e. the Church) money, then God gives you back more money. God was like a Banker. If you loan the bank your money, the bank pays you "interest". The Mormon God, along with being an incestuous pervert (by banging Mary....his spirit daughter), but the Big Banker: for every dollar you gave to him (i.e. the Church), he sent you back "blessings":

*sexy woman to marry
*protection in travel
*job promotions
*success in business/career/investment
*healthy well-behaved children

Hindus think the same thing. When they gave Ganesh (the elepphant-headed god) some flowers, and give some money to the priests of Ganesh, Ganesh gives you earthly "blessings" in return. ALL pagan religions, teach the very same thing, worship this god/goddess, and they'll send you earthly "blessings" in return. All of them...without exception. If Hindus believed that Ganesh was not real, and that he did not send them earthly "blessings", then Ganesh temples would be empty today. They are not empty, they are packed full of "blessing seekers". Mormons are the same. I mean, EXACTLY the same.

Anyway, I started to loathe Paul H. Dunn and his books. I believed he was preaching a false gospel, the Gospel of Gain/Success. But, I also felt guilty that I was "judging" him. After all, he was a Seventy, just under Apostle. So, HOW could he be preaching a false gospel? Yet, that is what I thought.

One day, in 1985, after my mission, I went to Mesa Arizona about a job. Didn't get the job. So, I decided to drive to Los Angeles and look up some old friends. I stopped by a Mormon bookstore in Mesa, and the clerk (a recent RM) said: "Oh, wow, you really need to get the new Paul H. Dunn tape! It's fantastic!"

I really didn't want to, but it was only four dollars and fifty cents, and, I did need something to listen to on my way to Los Angeles. So, I said "Sure" and I bought the tape. I listened to the ape as I drove. Half-way between Mesa AZ and Los angeles, was Blithe California: the "hottest" place in the United States. Gets to 130 in the Summer. Dusty little town. But it was night time, and only about 95 degrees. As I approached the town, I noticed I needed gas. Just then, I heard Paul He. Dunn say on the cassette tape (remember those?):

"It's quite a thing to play for a professional baseball team!"

I KNEW he was lying. Just knew it. Don't know how I knew it. Just knew it. So, when I stopped in Blithe to get gas, I removed the Paul H. Dunn tape from my tape player, and tossed it into the garbage can next to the gas pump, and never looked back.

Of course, not long afterwards, the Arizona Republic revealed, in a series of articles, that Paul H. Dunn's war and baseball stories were BOGUS. Lynn Packer, a former journalist and BYU professor of journalism, had written the story. Packer had also plenty of evidence that Dunn was involved in investment fraud, lots of it, but the Arizona Republic decided NOT to print that part of the story: just an expose' of his false war and baseball stories. Just go to YouTube and type in:

"Paul H. Dunn" and "Lynn Packer"

Watch the videos. They are pretty entertaining.

The Church released Dunn "for health reasons" and claimed it "did not know" if the Arizona Republic articles were accurate or not; both were BIG LIES. The Church had hired former FBI agents to check on Lynn Packer's articles, and the agents found them to be 100% accurate, and Packer was told this by one of the agents hired by the Church, while in the office of a Mormon Apostle. The Church LIES...or didn't you know that already?

Paul H. Dunn never let the truth interfere with a good story. He may be forgiven for embellishing his war and baseball stories, but his major involvement in investment FRAUD in Utah was unforgiveable. The ONLY reason he avoided prison, is because of help from top leaders of the LDS Church. That's all.

A dramatic film should be done about Paul H. Dunn and his lies.

A "funny" dramatic film!

A series of talks from either the pulpit or in front of an adoring fireside audience, and as the "boast" theme starts, we flash back to the real truth about baseball, the war, authoring books, his rise in the church, etc.

Then after the prat fall of each episode, we return to the end of the talk, "...and I say these things in the name of Jesus the gardener, amen. "

The cult got richer off the lies of Dunn. Of course they protected him. It's always been about the money.

Thank you for the trip down memory lane. I will be flipping off every church I drive by today.

Dunn was exposed in 1991. Why did Gordon B. Hinckley protect Dunn, releasing him for "health" reasons? The Brethren protect their own. Simple as that. Same reason Catholic bishops and cardinals protected pedophile priests. You protect your own. That is why blood relatives of Church leaders never see a Disciplinary Council.

In a "Mormon Stories" interview with John Dehlin Greg Prince said he once asked his good friend Paul H Dunn what he attributed his success to. Dunn responded saying "I spoke to the kids and the parents listened too. If I spoke to the parents no one listened." Greg Prince said Paul Dunn made his message interesting. John D. responded "But he did that by not always being truthful." Greg Prince then said " I would take his faults to a lot of other peoples virtues - Hands down."

This response by Greg Prince shows a total lack of regard for truth and represents the attitude of most of the good ol boys at the top. They are more concerned about being loyal to the mission of the church and winning however winning is defined.Dispensing with the truth is something the church has demonstrated it is willing to do anytime it doesn't serve their purposes. They have done this since the beginning and in the writing of their history.

The truth is not something that can be dispensed with when it doesn't serve their purposes. Trust is compromised and once lost they will never get it back. This is especially true of those who claim to represent god. "Whether by my mouth or the mouth of my servant, it is the same."
They don't care about the truth so much as they care about winning.

To me, the big issue behind lying is WHY?

It seems to me that in mormonism the reason GAs lie has everything to do with helping the church, an institution that pays its liars very well, no matter the cost to the members of the institution, who just happen to fund the institution.

When I was a freshman at the University of Arizona we had a
thing called "Religion in Life Week." Representatives from
various religious traditions would be on campus for a bunch of
activities for a week.

The representative from LDS was Paul H. Dunn. He had recently
been called as a GA and was a "rising star" among Mormons.

That week in my ROTC class (back then it was required of all
male undergrads--like religion classes are at BYU) Paul H. Dunn
was the guest speaker.

I sat about 10 feet away from him when he told the story of the
guy dying in his arms. This wasn't an LDS class so he didn't go
into the stuff about how HE, and not the hundreds of others, was
miraculously spared the slaughter.

Afterward our ROTC instructor (not LDS) told us that we had
gotten the best of the Religion-in-Life speakers. He was
definitely inspiring.

In the campus ward he was the only speaker in Sacrament Meeting.
He had us in stitches. I wondered if his hilarious sermon
(which was more like a stand-up comedy routine) was appropriate
for sacrament meeting. I figured if he's a GA, then who am I to
question.

The next year the LDS representative was A. Theodore Tuttle. He
also was the one who spoke to my ROTC class. However he didn't
have anything inspiring to say, just a bunch of BS about how
similarity of blood-type between Polynesian and South American
indigenous people somehow is evidence for the truth of the Book
of Mormon.

Paul H. Dunn married the daughter of a Church of Christ minister. The Church of Christ (or Disciples of Christ...forget which) founded/runs Chapman College (now Chapman University) in Orange, California, a little almost all-white liberal arts college. Very pleasant little college in a very pleasant little area of Orange County that hasn't seen gangs or homeless yet.

Dunn should have become a Disciples of Christ minister, in fact, he left the Church for four years while at Chapman and was intending to go to the DoC seminary. Why he went back to the LDS Church, is unknown. However, he would have made an excellent preacher, or used car sales man, or insurance salesmen. He was a FANTASTIC bull-shitter!!! One has to admit that.



baura Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I was a freshman at the University of Arizona
> we had a
> thing called "Religion in Life Week."
> Representatives from
> various religious traditions would be on campus
> for a bunch of
> activities for a week.
>
> The representative from LDS was Paul H. Dunn. He
> had recently
> been called as a GA and was a "rising star" among
> Mormons.
>
> That week in my ROTC class (back then it was
> required of all
> male undergrads--like religion classes are at BYU)
> Paul H. Dunn
> was the guest speaker.
>
> I sat about 10 feet away from him when he told the
> story of the
> guy dying in his arms. This wasn't an LDS class
> so he didn't go
> into the stuff about how HE, and not the hundreds
> of others, was
> miraculously spared the slaughter.
>
> Afterward our ROTC instructor (not LDS) told us
> that we had
> gotten the best of the Religion-in-Life speakers.
> He was
> definitely inspiring.
>
> In the campus ward he was the only speaker in
> Sacrament Meeting.
> He had us in stitches. I wondered if his
> hilarious sermon
> (which was more like a stand-up comedy routine)
> was appropriate
> for sacrament meeting. I figured if he's a GA,
> then who am I to
> question.
>
> The next year the LDS representative was A.
> Theodore Tuttle. He
> also was the one who spoke to my ROTC class.
> However he didn't
> have anything inspiring to say, just a bunch of BS
> about how
> similarity of blood-type between Polynesian and
> South American
> indigenous people somehow is evidence for the
> truth of the Book
> of Mormon.

"I haven't purposely tried to embellish or rewrite history. I've tried to illustrate points that would create interest. [I was] simply putting history in little finer packages."~Elder Paul H. Dunn (quoted in Associated Press article, 1991)

Hartman Rector, Jr. was anther popular Seventy who got booted for pulling a pyramid scheme. Now he is involved in promoting Rodney Meldrum's FIRM foundation. We all know how honest Meldrum is. Will the scheming never stop?

Hartman Rector, Jr. wrote many too-good-to-be-true conversion stories.

I once, very long ago, PRETENDED to be a Liberal Mormon, and infiltrated SUNSTONE in order to spy on it. Nobody asked me/told me to do that. I did that on my own.

Anyway, yes, I heard several telephone conversations between Hartman Rector Jr. and his son, who worked for Sunstone, and they were laughing (it was on speaker phone) and it quite obvious that HR Jr. was supporting his son at Sunstone etc. I told the son a joke about Joseph Smith, making him look like a fraud, and the son laughed at it, and in phone conversatin he told his father (HR Jr.) who laughed loudly at it.

The editor of Sunstone at that time I could tell was gay, because of his swishy Femm speech.

I also heard conversation on how "George's guys" were getting influence in Deseret Book, and had basically taken it over by that time. Found out that George A. Smith, who financed Sunstone, had some "master plan" to take over Deseret Book, and the bookstores themselves, by sending his "friends" to work in Deseret bookstores, and then having his friends become upper management, and I found out that this did actually take place. That is why Grant Palmer's book sold in Deseret Book for five years, and that is why Dan Volgels anti-Mormon books sold in Deseret bookstores for YEARS; because the head management of DB along with many DB bookstore managers by that time were actually "sent" there as agents-of-change.

Of course, "Google" has now made George's entire "Plan" irrelevant, since one does not NEED to put anti-Mormon books in LDS bookstores anymore. Mormons get their anti-Mormon info on Google now.

I also heard the Sunstone staff talking about "good porn versus bad porn" etc. One gal talk about sex with her girlfriend, etc. I wrote it all up in a report, and mailed it off to the Office of the First presidency. Don't know what happened to it after that.

So, yeah, Hartman Rector Jr was NOT a TBM. He was more like his son. Liberal Cultural Mormon.

Josephina Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hartman Rector, Jr. was anther popular Seventy who
> got booted for pulling a pyramid scheme. Now he is
> involved in promoting Rodney Meldrum's FIRM
> foundation. We all know how honest Meldrum is.
> Will the scheming never stop?
>
> Hartman Rector, Jr. wrote many too-good-to-be-true
> conversion stories.

Never heard of the guy.

I love your story, Angel of Jesus!

I remember all the students raving about Paul Dunn, at BYU. I avoided Mormon meetings and firesides, so I never heard him, personally.

But I know what you mean, about hearing lies. Sometimes, it just hits you like that! It's someone's tone of voice, and how they are saying something (like on the tape) or body language or facial expression. Sometimes it's how the liar is living his life (like JS and church leaders who beat their wife and children).

Once you observe and define a blatant lie, it is easier to see the other lies connected to it, until the whole construct unravels, and you throw away the whole cassette.

And you never want to be lied to again! It's a great feeling!

Somewhere in the back of your mind, your critical reasoning "app" was running, monitoring the BS. Then something happened (in your case, the baseball yarns) and it kicked in. Everybody has that "app," but it can get corrupted by a virus and fail to engage. I think that happens with most Mormons.

Mike Warnke was a successful Christian comic and motivation speaker (1970s & 80s), who wrote a best seller called "The Satan Seller." In it, he claimed to have been the head warlock of a huge Satanic coven. He also had incredible Vietnam stories, and it was those which triggered my suspicions: he related how, as a Navy Corpsman, he was separated from his Marine company and found his way back through the jungles. THAT was too much for me to swallow (I'm a Marine, and served the time he claimed to.)

Incidentally, it was a Christian monthly ("Cornerstone") which examined his flawed timeline and exposed him as a fraud. No, there never was a coven of Satanists, not even a little one.

When I left active duty, I resolved never to tell exotic or embellished war stories, for just that reason: "Truth will out."

The Church of Christ mentioned above calls itself a restoration church. In its formative years many were known as Campbellites and Sidney Rigdon was connected to them before he hooked up with Joseph Smith.

In another thread, about the priesthood ban "revelation", I quoted an article and one the guys quoted in that article gave his description of Kimball during that time, and I doubt its veracity.