Since I left LDS Corp now well over a decade ago I've been able to breath free in my questioning. I'm OCD in analyzing things so being Mormon was Hell. I would wonder and question all sorts of things. In talking with my family about high school LDS Seminary over the weekend I remembered that in Orem, Utah where they have a Seminary building and a principal that principal called me an anti-Christ for questioning so much in class.

Literally, being called that I was being vehemently against Jesus because of questioning was surreal but one of many bricks which fell down in the temple wall I was surrounded by in my life in Mormonism.

So recently I read something which asserted the same old "fact" that there is a causal link between animal cruelty and violence towards humans. I questioned it where I hadn't before. What the Hell? I thought I ought to see if there is a dissenting voice for that and guess what there is one - a government site.

There is also an organization which almost like a religion promotes the causality.

"The link between violence against animals and violence against humans is well established."
https://prime.peta.org/2010/04/only-sociopaths-intentionally-hurt-animals-a-professional-view


"Research reports in the literature are inconsistent and inconclusive regarding a possible relationship between animal cruelty and aggression against people."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3697519

So regardless of where you read something, now that you are out of Mormonism question everything. It is a good thing. Not just angel visitations, authorities of some priesthood, or wildly improbable religious narratives but even things that everyone thinks is a fact.

And just remember a former LDS prophet (SWK) believed masturbation and porn caused boys to become homosexual. That is the power of revelation there.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2018 02:11PM by Elder Berry.

after I've had time to think about things, then I see where someone has been playing me.

My doctor is changing over to a practice called MDVIP (look it up, it will shock you). In order to continue going to her, I will have to pay $1650 out of pocket besides my "good insurance, we need to use it" (her statement), which will pay for all visits and tests, etc. I went in last week to refill my prescriptions so I had a bit of time to look for a new doctor. She proceeded to change some of my prescriptions that I had long-term refills for to new meds and gave me a 1 month refill, which forces me to either get a new doctor quickly OR sign up for her program. Not like they haven't harassed me for 3 months now with 2 calls a week and a letter a week.

So I went along with her new prescriptions and then the next day when I picked up the prescriptions I started thinking. And I wrote her a message and told her what I thought of her new practice and to quit harassing me. Oh, they also want us to pick a new doctor from a list she will mail me. I said, "No thanks."

But at first I'm pretty gullible. I have to have time to think by myself to figure things out as I was raised as such a good little mormon girl. It gets me in trouble.

cl2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But at first I'm pretty gullible. I have to have
> time to think by myself to figure things out as I
> was raised as such a good little mormon girl. It
> gets me in trouble.

No problem just as long as you are pretty right? j/k

Mormonism is really good at raising gullible. They should make a movie about it called, "Raising Utah."

(MDVIP)

"To supplement insurance reimbursements, MDVIP physicians charge patients an annual fee between $1,650 and $2,200 per year. In addition to this annual fee, patients are responsible for applicable co-pays and co-insurance, and maintain primary-care insurance coverage including Medicare. In contrast to the direct-care model, this revenue format, often referenced as concierge medicine, runs the risk of audit or penalty as Medicare and other private-insurance carriers cover a comprehensive wellness exam currently listed as part of the MDVIP package.

MDVIP physicians are not directly employed by the company, instead they pay a royalty or franchise fee of $500 per patient per year for services such as patient conversion, marketing, branding and other support."

You're right, cl2 -- I'm shocked.
They're soaking you for an extra $1k (or more) a year, for stuff most insurance already covers, and for "marketing, branding, and other support."

:(

My doctor sent me 5 letters in 3 months and called my phone 2 times a week. They had little meetings at a nice restaurant to explain the new program.

One day someone from the office called (I let them all go to voice mail) and the girl made the regular statement about "Have you been receiving the letters and calls . . ." and then there was a pause and she said, "There are only 2 spaces left" (of 350). But they kept calling and kept writing. So when I went to my doctor last week, she took me to talk to the patient advocate from MDVIP and as we were walking in, my doctor said, "Oh, and there are only 4 spaces left." I should have burst out laughing, but I didn't.

One of her first comments when I first went to her 3 years ago was "you have good insurance, we need to use it." I should have dumped her then, but I hate looking for new doctors. She is something.

It sounds a lot worse than the "pay as you go" system. Thanks for alerting us to it.

That religion even makes you question if the world is round. The lies were so many and so heavy.

Elder Berry
Does stupity cause blind faith or does blind faith cause stupidity?

Both statements apply ;-)

Thanks Soft.

Dichotomies are too often false for our comfort zones and our comfort zones are too often decorated in black and white.

After my ex had left me, my dad started asking me if I knew he was gay before I married him. I avoided the question. We had many discussions over the years and I kept putting off answering that question. My dad was pretty persistent, but it was a touchy subject and so he kept letting it go. He did tell me once he found out my ex is gay that THEY ARE BORN THAT WAY. He would tell me, "You aren't that stupid that you'd marry someone gay." Now, I knew what he meant by that. He has always considered me to be extremely intelligent. I did better in school than any of my siblings, though 2 of my brothers are by far smarter than I am.

When I finally told my dad a year before he died that the leaders told me it was my job to save my ex, he was FURIOUS. They told me not to tell my parents he was gay, not to tell anyone.

BUT blind faith made me stupid.

I wasn't accused (to my face, at least) of being anti-Jesus or the devil incarnate by the Catholic nuns, but I did get a lot of "God works in mysterious ways", "it is not for us to question God", and "who are you to question the Word of God?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2018 09:58AM by GregS.

Questioning God. Yep. That is what I was doing when I was a teen.

“What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.” (D&C 1:38)
http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2013/05/19/whether-by-mine-own-voice-or-by-the-voice-of-my-servants-it-is-the-same/

That's a hoot. His interpretation of D&C 1:38 is to literally, and very slightly, paraphrase it. It is worse than somebody quoting scripture, regardless of whether the quoted passage is even relevant, as though it were the final word.

I want to know which part of God’s word Joseph was fulfilling when he was banging his followers’ wives.

Go forth and multiple and replenish the earth. But God was ok with playing house for Joe instead of keeping house. As for Joe's house he was with The Lord in playing.

Babyloncansuckit Wrote:
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> I want to know which part of God’s word Joseph
> was fulfilling when he was banging his
> followers’ wives.

John 4

4:13 Jesus said to her, "Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, 4:14 but those who drink of the water that I will give them will never be thirsty. The water that I will give will become in them a spring of water gushing up to eternal life." 4:15 The woman said to him, "Sir, give me this water, so that I may never be thirsty or have to keep coming here to draw water."

Pretty fly for a white guy.*



*LDS Jesus is pale in skin color.

Did he make her moist for eternity?

Apologists are saying that JS polyandrus marriages were, my words, "for the fun of it." Because they say that he didn't screw them. If the marriages were not for eternity, just for time: there was no reason for them other than sex.

The apology goes Joe didn't get sexual and married women just for eternity after this life (time.)

Growing up I was told Joe was dead when he married them. I found out he was very much alive, they were often other people's wives, and a couple were children or very young.

Funny I should have looked into that when I was young.

This seems to be the proper thread for me to air my questions about the church as I try to build up the guts to leave. Being the coward that I am on this issue who can I sit down and talk to? Given the way he has ignored what I have told him about my mental health disease, I don't see him being open minded in the least about what questions
my ,finally honest, research into the church has brought about. Also my reflections on my 49 years as a Mormon. From what I've seen my journey through the church has been atypical. If this is not the right place let me know and I'll crawl back into my psychological hole and figure something else out.

wheredoigonow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If this is
> not the right place let me know and I'll crawl
> back into my psychological hole and figure
> something else out.

I don't know if this is the "right" thread for anything. I'm advocating always questioning in it.

Post what you like here. LDS Corp doesn't take too kindly to questioning in its locals, local reps all the way up to the top.

It sounds like what they are offering isn't for you. I'd follow that hunch and question the motives of those who dismiss your questioning of their offering.

I don't advocate doing anything to harm yourself or others. You have to determine where your questioning is going to take you. Good luck.

As to the "science" contradictions: science can't seem to make up it's collective mind. Idiots and frauds in science don't make me turn my back on science any more than idiots and frauds in religion make me turn my back on Jesus.

wheredoigonow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Idiots and
> frauds in science don't make me turn my back on
> science any more than idiots and frauds in
> religion make me turn my back on Jesus.

We were all more idiotic in our collective human past with regards to what we think is "normal" and rational today. You've turned your back on Mohammed, Lord Krishna, The Buddha and maybe the Dali Llama and the people who promote them when you fully embrace Jesus as your personal Lord.

Human fragility in the face of fraud doesn't make anything coming from "collective" minds a given path to truth. Good luck there as well.