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Posted by: bobik43 ( )
Date: June 07, 2018 10:37PM

Yesterday was the seventy fourth anniversary of the Normandy invasion. Each year, on June 6th, since it was released, I try to watch the film "Saving Private Ryan". I do it not because the movie is a pleasant one to watch (it certainly isn't - especially the first half hour). I do it because, for me, it's a way to honor and remember the young people who died that day, those who suffered the terrible wounds, both physical and psychological, to defend the liberty that I have enjoyed for my entire life as a member of the post-war baby boom generation. It reminds me to be grateful for the sacrifices of that generation and the sacrifices of their families. Each time I watch it I find deeply myself moved - sometimes to tears, as happened yesterday.

So anyway, I mentioned this to a person I know, roughly my age and devoutly LDS. He is a really decent guy. He is prominent in the local community, a very successful businessman. I actually really like him and respect him and I mention his business success only for the purpose of noting that he has benefitted from the postwar order at least as much as I have. But I asked him, and another guy (similarly devout and decent and accomplished) if they had ever seen the movie, and they replied that they hadn't and based on what I know about them, I'm pretty sure it's because of its R rating.

I find myself quite offended by this. That there are Mormons who will not watch a film that (only partially) depicts the sacrifice laid down by mostly missionary aged Americans to defeat the greatest evil seen in generations is appalling to me. That an adult citizen would use the freedom that these young Americans gave the "last full measure of their devotion" to secure to blindly follow stupid counsel from his or her church "leaders" is just astounding, I believe.

Incidentally, I have seen this same situation with different Mormons and another R rated masterpiece "Schindler's List".

What say you all? Am I getting myself too worked up?

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: June 07, 2018 10:54PM

In that situation, I'm more likely to feel pity.

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Posted by: BYU Boner ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 01:10AM

^^^^+1,000,000^^^^

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Posted by: Anon42day ( )
Date: June 07, 2018 11:08PM

I just did a post on these movies. You might enjoy reading the comments. Right now it is on page 3
Or it has moved to page 4 and the title was A Church of Ignorant contradictions.

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Posted by: Anon K ( )
Date: June 07, 2018 11:18PM

Or ask if they've read the book.

I don't think books are rated R.....or r they? ;)

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: June 07, 2018 11:27PM

Anyone who won't watch The Godfather is no fan of film. More likely a Philistine.

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Posted by: Recovered Molly MO ( )
Date: June 07, 2018 11:42PM

Someone's choice to not watch a movie is really none of your business. No one owes that to you or an explanation of why they haven't.

I am a former military wife and the daughter of a Vietnam Vet. It bothers me when people dont show respect for the flag, for our Vets or taking any sort of pride in our traditions.

But, do I have a right to be offended if someone doesn't do the same? Nope. Instead, I share why these traditions are important to me and how seeing them disrespected bothers me.

If someone does not agree, well thats just peachy. I go on with my day and dont let it bother me any more.

RMM

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 12:19AM


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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 01:19AM

I actually almost bought saving private ryan today haha. It was only 10 bucks at the store. I kind of forgot how that movie went. I just remember tom hanks shooting a pistol at a tank. I know it's a good movie i just can't remember a lot of it. Now i really want to buy it. I kind of want to see that dunkirk movie as well.

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Posted by: bobik43-nli ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 01:46AM

Saving Private Ryan and Dunkirk are both films well worth watching.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 02:13AM

bobik43-nli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Saving Private Ryan and Dunkirk are both films
> well worth watching.

Alright i think i will watch them in the near future here. They just keep popping up when i go to the store like they want me to watch them or something.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 03:19AM

My children watched Saving Private Ryan as required viewing, by high school following its release. They watched Schindler's List in grade school as required viewing, likewise. Parents signed consent forms so they could watch them with their history classes. But they were historical, so I don't know of any parents who refused to allow their children to watch them with their classes.

Both powerful masterpieces. War itself is only a travesty. In the case of WWII, the lesser of two evils.

I'm more prejudiced by Mormons complicity in the Holocaust as Hitler's "Yes Men," than their not watching certain movies. They live lives with tunnel vision, following orders blindly without questioning their leaders - such as they did Hitler in Nazi Germany. While J. Reuben Clark, from as far away as Salt Lake City, did not hesitate to throw asylum seeking Jews under the bus when they tried to flee. Because of his virile anti-Semitism. The buck stopped all the way at the top of the General Authority for its do nothing attitude to support the Jews. While helping Hitler anyway it could.

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Posted by: mikemitchell ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 03:28AM

Have to wonder too how many of those who won't watch Saving Private Ryan or Schindler's List because of the R-rating secretly watch porn.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 03:52AM

mikemitchell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have to wonder too how many of those who won't
> watch Saving Private Ryan or Schindler's List
> because of the R-rating secretly watch porn.

Haha porn does not count in their minds as anything. No rating no nothing.

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Posted by: Lumberjack ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 10:03AM

I taught high school history for 30 years. Many of my colleagues used "Schindler's List" in their classes. I can remember only one incident of a parent refusing to let their child watch the film. Yep, you guessed it: prominent Mormon family. What the parents didn't seem to know was that their son was a "wanna-be" gangster. He was essentially a hoodlum. But, at least, he wasn't corrupted by watching "Schindler's List".

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: June 11, 2018 01:31AM

both saw "Schindler's List," saw it for the quality history that it portrayed, and neither ever regretted having seen it. They both felt that if it could keep nations from committing the atrocities again, it was worth it. Both good people.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 04:42AM


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Posted by: jthomas ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 09:48AM

Or....you choose what you are offended by on your very own.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 10:11AM

We don't choose normal emotions, but we do choose how we react to them.

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Posted by: jthomas ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 10:24AM

Define "normal". My "normal emotions" have VASTLY changed since the days of my mission 15 years ago. Normal is VERY different according to who you talk to.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 02:19PM

Which has little to do with my reply.

The point is that emotions happen. They are not controlled, only blocked. As people grow and change, their reactions also change. There is no standard emotional response that is more honorable than another. We can control our actions but not spontaneous emotional responses.

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Posted by: BrightAqua ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 02:43PM

I figured that I was an adult and could make my own decisions! Radical, I know.

One of my favorite WWII movies is "Mrs Miniver" from the 1940s. It showed the war from the perspective of a British family.

Saving Private Ryan and Schindler's List are great movies, showing more of the grim realities and also the courageous actions of war.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 10:30AM

I certainly agree that it's ridiculous to not watch that movie entirely because of its R rating. Its depiction of the Normandy invasion is honest, raw, and visceral -- and people can learn a lot from watching it.

But you know what the hardest thing about "freedom" is?
Allowing for actual freedom.

You know, the freedom to NOT watch the movie. For whatever reason.
Or anything else that is NOT what you would do.

You're right to bring up this point, IMHO. Seeing as how you're also free to discuss what you feel are the "right" things to do (or the "wrong" ones).

But in the end, if you actually value freedom, you need to accept that not everyone will act like you do. Or feel like you do. Or put the same value on this film that you do. And that they're free to do so -- otherwise we don't have freedom.

I'm reminded of that every time, for instance, someone publicly demeans the choices/actions of someone else as "Un-American." They've missed the point entirely. :)

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Posted by: Moe Howard ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 11:08AM

I'm afraid you are right Kolob. The guy in question may be weird but he doesn't have to watch this movie, regardless of the rating.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 03:09PM

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I certainly agree that it's ridiculous to not
> watch that movie entirely because of its R rating.
> Its depiction of the Normandy invasion is honest,
> raw, and visceral -- and people can learn a lot
> from watching it.
>
> But you know what the hardest thing about
> "freedom" is?
> Allowing for actual freedom.
>
> You know, the freedom to NOT watch the movie. For
> whatever reason.
> Or anything else that is NOT what you would do.
>
> You're right to bring up this point, IMHO. Seeing
> as how you're also free to discuss what you feel
> are the "right" things to do (or the "wrong"
> ones).
>
> But in the end, if you actually value freedom, you
> need to accept that not everyone will act like you
> do. Or feel like you do. Or put the same value
> on this film that you do. And that they're free
> to do so -- otherwise we don't have freedom.
>
> I'm reminded of that every time, for instance,
> someone publicly demeans the choices/actions of
> someone else as "Un-American." They've missed the
> point entirely. :)

Hie for president once again. Man you make sense.

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 11:17AM

Hmmm...in the opening minutes of 'SPR', a guy gets his arm blown off and picks it up; in the BoM a guy hacks the arms off a *bunch* of guys. In 'SPR', medics tend to a guy whose "bowels have gushed out"; in the temple TBM's used to promise to have the same thing happen to them. In 'SPR' a German Flak 38 cannon takes the head of a paratrooper right off; in the beginning of the BoM Nephi takes Laban's head right off.


But 'SPR' has Matt Damon's character telling a story about his brother trying to feel a girl's boobs so that's not OK, I guess...

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Posted by: fossilman ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 11:26AM

Well, in the movie they explain the meaning of FUBAR. So there's that.

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Posted by: Aquarius123 ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 11:37AM

Bobik, I think Saving Private Ryan is such a poignant movie. My own father was there, so I watch it with great interest and do so appreciate all the men and women defending our freedom. Without them, we certainly would not be enjoying the freedom and comfort that is ours. I don't care if not even one person wants to see it or enjoy it. Imo, it's their loss. In tscc, we are told to not watch anything rated R. When I left, I tried to get caught up with good movies I missed because of listening to priesthood guys. Those who are still in the cult are to be pitied. (Unless they hassle me about being exmo, then screw them.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2018 11:38AM by Aquarius123.

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Posted by: Anon42day ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 11:48AM

Ok I have a question. Are the people really offended by these”R”
Rated movies or are they afraid to admit that they are following
Orders from the pulpit and don’t want to get caught.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 12:34PM

and they may have seen some. My dad took us to movies like "The Longest Day," "Battle of the Bulge," etc., when we were young. There are many. I took my kids who were in middle school to "Saving Private Ryan" and "Schindler's List."

My poor now TBM daughter saw all the R movies I thought would be good.

My boyfriend's dad was there for the second day of Normandy. His dad was also hiding from the Nazi's with the resistance for a long time. His father wouldn't watch any of these movies. He was also there to liberate one of the death camps. I'm sure that seeing any of these movies would have triggered his nightmares. He had nightmares for years and his wife would have to wake him up.

When I was in school, we didn't learn much about WWI or WWII or even the Civil War or The Revolutionary War. I learned about most of them in books. BUT I had one history teacher who showed us news reels of the Holocaust. I HAD NO CLUE. It was then I started reading books about WWII.

I think the education system is part of the problem in terms of teaching history. I don't watch SPR every year on D-Day. It is actually my brother's birthday, who nearly died several times, so I spent the day with him.

I have to add that my grandfather was in WWI. I think we know the least about WWI of any war in our history. My GF as on the missing in action list for most of the war and they were surprised when he showed up at home. He chewed tobacco the rest of his life and he was released from being SS president because of it. He quit attending for the most part after that. He'd take my dad to the pool hall in Corinne while his wife played the organ for church. My dad was 3.

Another movie that I liked was I believe "Darkest Hour(s)." My daughter thought Dunkirk was rather slow and she didn't "get it." I told her to see "Darkest Hour." I had NO CLUE about Dunkirk either until I saw the movie. Amazing how many men they saved when it was thought they were going to lose them all.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2018 12:45PM by cl2.

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Posted by: bobik43 ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 03:13PM

Since childhood, I've had a passionate interest in WWII. I was born not too many years after the end of the war and grew up surrounded by people who were affected by it (as we all still are today). For the last twenty years or so, though, I've come to the conclusion (for myself) that WWI was as least equally important, and possibly more so. When the definitive history of the West is written in some future century, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the historical consensus decides on WWI as the beginning of the end. A civilization doesn't easily recover from a trauma like that. Perhaps it can't. And we're only a hundred years out come this November from the end of it. That's nothing in historical terms.

I agree with you that the first World War is not given the attention it warrants.

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Posted by: Honest TBM ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 01:30PM

This "Saving Private Ryan" movie was rated R by the people in Hollywood. The Brethren have said that R-rated movies are forbidden. Heavenly Father's laws are sacred and eternally unchanged. Therefore, thanks to the beloved loving gospel, I cannot ever even consider the idea of watching this "Saving Private Ryan" movie because that would make me disobedient and put me straight on the path to hell where I'll burn for all eternity in a lake of fire and brimstone. In fact I don't even have time to think about such a movie as I am supposed to be super busy doing all the things that the holy middlemen in charge of my Ward/Stake need done. For example, the chapel toilets need to be cleaned so poor Heavenly Father can save money on hiring janitors.

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Posted by: AlmostGone1 ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 01:35PM

Excerpt from http://www.ldsliving.com/R-Rated-Movies-What-Have-the-Prophets-Actually-Said/s/82659

why they don’t watch R-rated movies, their response will be some variation of “because the prophet said not to.” But follow-up questions (Which prophet? What exactly did he say? In what context?)

In fact, the entire pantheon of past prophets has only mentioned R-rated movies in general conference once—three decades ago, in a 1986 talk by Ezra Taft Benson entitled “To the ‘Youth of the Noble Birthright.’”

“Tonight I would like to speak directly to you young men of the Aaronic Priesthood,” he started his talk.

"Don’t see R-rated movies or vulgar videos or participate in any entertainment that is immoral, suggestive, or pornographic (emphasis added).”

I find it interesting that the counsel to avoid R-rated movies was directed specifically to youth (six months later, President Benson delivered nearly identical advice to young women), who often need more specific guidelines to aid their decision-making. It’s also interesting that this counsel is mentioned under the umbrella of avoiding media that promotes lust.

There you go they never said don't watch all rated R movies.

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Posted by: Felix ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 01:44PM

I am going to answer your question the way a tbm would. I would guess that they won't watch r rated because in Mormon doctrine "obedience" is the first law of heaven. They believe the all seeing omnipresent eye of god is watching and obedience brings forth the blessings of heaven.

Next, Obedience is a manifestation of the first principle of the gospel which is faith. This is where I believe religion falls off the rail. Faith is not a reliable means of determining what is true or right. Truth isn't determined by whether or not you believe in it. It stands independent of any ones opinion or decision to believe. Sort of a dry response to your question but I think it is on the mark.

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Posted by: AlmostGone1 ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 02:02PM

But obedience to what? It's not a doctrinal thing (unless you're a youth). It's a mormon culture thing.

Noone except youth were told not to watch R-rated movies and only those that are "vulgar videos or participate in any entertainment that is immoral, suggestive, or pornographic"

Saving private Ryan does not fall into those categories.

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Posted by: Anon42day ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 02:28PM

I fail to see or understand their rationale at by-passing movies
Such as Schindler’s List and Saving Private Ryan where both stories are fact based wonderful movies but “R” rated but it’s ok
to sit down for family home evening wth the Book of Mormon and read aloud about Nephi lopping off Labin’s head and the lamanites losing arms and legs, to only name a few but according to church leaders makes great reading on a Sunday afternoon.

I just don’t get it

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: June 08, 2018 03:04PM

Anon42day Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I fail to see or understand their rationale at
> by-passing movies
> Such as Schindler’s List and Saving Private Ryan
> where both stories are fact based wonderful movies
> but “R” rated but it’s ok
> to sit down for family home evening wth the Book
> of Mormon and read aloud about Nephi lopping off
> Labin’s head and the lamanites losing arms and
> legs, to only name a few but according to church
> leaders makes great reading on a Sunday
> afternoon.
>
> I just don’t get it

That's a good point. There was chopping of heads and limbs in their book. What the hell. It's doublethink or double something. Straight up hypocrisy.

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Posted by: Anon42day ( )
Date: June 11, 2018 04:53AM

Badassadam1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anon42day Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I fail to see or understand their rationale at
> > by-passing movies
> > Such as Schindler’s List and Saving Private
> Ryan
> > where both stories are fact based wonderful
> movies
> > but “R” rated but it’s ok
> > to sit down for family home evening wth the
> Book
> > of Mormon and read aloud about Nephi lopping
> off
> > Labin’s head and the lamanites losing arms
> and
> > legs, to only name a few but according to
> church
> > leaders makes great reading on a Sunday
> > afternoon.
> >
> > I just don’t get it
>
> That's a good point. There was chopping of heads
> and limbs in their book. What the hell. It's
> doublethink or double something. Straight up
> hypocrisy.

Thanks Adam

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: June 11, 2018 10:32AM

EXACTLY. Where would Mormons be without their double standards. Their church was founded on them.

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