Diverse in what terms? We have lots of LBGTQ folks, people of color, and a number of people from around the world including Europe, South America, Australia, and Asia. There are people from every economic group. We have single, married, divorced, and widowed people.
I would say that exmos reflect the membership of the church as a whole with perhaps somewhat more people that would have felt marginalized for one reason or another.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2018 07:50AM by summer.
bluebutterfly Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Or....the church doesn't allow for diversity, so > the exmos are the diverse people that didn't fit > into the white and delightsome nonsense! ;-)
Hey i'm white and delightsome haha jk. I picture someone that licks the mirror when i read that.
bluebutterfly Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > LOL I'm white a delightsome too...it's no wonder > my parents are soooo disappointed in me! After > all, we were the chosen ones!
Yes, a choosen generation. What a load of horse manure!
I notice that most of the people on this forum are native speakers of English and/or BIC or at the very least converted by their parents as kids.
But on a global scale, most inactive mormons speak other languages and are very familiar with the faith they were born in, or which their family practiced before they joined TSCC. That gives them a very different perspective. Some even joined a third faith after mormonism, though more often than not, people seem to ditch religion altogether when they've already been fooled twice.
Example: I have a friend in Spain whose grandparents converted a few years before his mother was born. His mother later married a BIC South American. But he grew up in Spain, went to catholic schools and attended all those catholic weddings, baptisms and funerals with the other relatives. And this being Europe, of course he was also exposed to a healthy dose of secularism.
So, although his family has been in TSCC since 1975ish, he never really lived in the mormon bubble like Utah teens or the older folks on this board who grew up pre-internet. The internet is now helping others out of their bubble, so in future this differences wil be blurred, but for now they are all too real.
It looks like the diversity on this board is limited. Despite the fact that everyone is welcomed here, only a select group is interested. 1.) We're mostly American, and a majority of us are in the Western United States. But there are many exceptions. 2.) A disproportionately high percentage of those here are not hetrosexual, or are of a racial minority. 3.) Most of us are former mormons. So within that group of mormons, those of us here tend to be non-stereotypical of mormonism. The occurrance of athiest beliefs are higher here on this board by percentage, than exists in the general population. 4.) A majority of those here are are politically liberal. If the presidential vote were to have come strictly from this board, Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders would be the President right now.
I do not believe that ethnic minorities are present here in disproportionate numbers. The percentages within Mormonism, especially Morridor Mormonism, are much lower than in the US population as a whole. It is conceivable that that same depressed ratio characterizes the ex-Mo community, or even that that ratio is a bit higher, but I see no reason to believe the proportion approaches even distantly that of the broader American public. That is evident in the topics raised for discussion, the choice of words, and the political and social assumptions.
On the politics, I think you are confusing some things. You say that there are more liberals here than conservatives as evidenced by the fact that lots of people dislike Donald Trump. Besides presuming that you know enough about the vast majority of people here who don't engage in political discussion to describe their views, you additionally assume 1) that Donald Trump is a conservative trying to preserve existing institutions, and 2) people who dislike Trump are "liberals."
Both assumptions are incorrect. Trump was elected to destroy, not to preserve. He is not a conservative, by definition. Second, a lot of people who dislike Trump are moderates, conservatives in the true sense of that word, or libertarians. It is a coalition against Trump; as people like Jimbo prove, it isn't just liberals who find the president and his views alarming.
So liberal is this place, you further contend, that "if the presidential vote were to have come strictly from this board, Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders would be the President right now." That is of course true of the country as a whole, isn't it? Clinton receive a majority of the vote. Trump has never had a majority of popular support, nor is the country more pro-Trump than anti-Trump. It follows that the anti-Trump sentiment expressed here could be entirely in line with national trends or even marginally weaker than in the country as a whole.
There is little basis to believe RfM is an unusually liberal community.
I am not sure where the obsession with Trump comes from. He is not exactly a conservative, which is why the Republican party didn't want him to win the election either. He wasn't something I wrote about in my post in this thread. So to gage the hatred of Trump by blaming the liberals here for the anti-Trump sentiment wouldn't make sense and is not what I implied. To frame Trump's presidency with reference to liberalism doesn't seem so relevant either. Liberalism existed long before Trump came along and will exist long after his second term is over. Independant of discussions about Trump, liberal ideologies tend to prevail in discussions on this board. Not to disparage liberalism. Most liberals wear the title proudly. Mormonism is big business. Many people hate anything that is similar to what they hate. To assume things about others incorrectly can be a two way street. I think that most of us pick an ideology as a starting reference point and then make decisions going forward from there, not to there. The anti-Trump hysteria seems to afflict people of all parties equally, and can be characterized by the obsessive need to bring him up when he is not otherwise a part of the discussion. Despite my conservative leanings, I would have probably voted for Bernie Sanders if Trump had not ran. There are more important issues than ideologies, like not losing your country to globalists. Whether or not you agree with me, none of that is about Trump.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2018 10:42PM by azsteve.
My "obsession with Trump" comes from your statement:
"A majority of those here are are politically liberal. If the presidential vote were to have come strictly from this board, Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders would be the President right now."
Who, I ask, won the presidential vote? Was it not Trump? Implicit in any counterfactual exercise is the factual reality. Surely you know that.
You further suggest that it is unnecessary to bring liberalism into a discussion of the presidential election. But you did that when you compared Trump's electoral success with liberal candidates supported by "political liberals."
It is silly to pretend that I didn't follow you to Trump and liberalism.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2018 10:38PM by Lot's Wife.
Whatever Lot's Wife. They're your thought processes. The name of the affliction is "Trump derangement syndrome". There is more involved in complex politics than just Trump or no Trump vs (who ever your champion is).
Yup. You nailed me, AZSteve. I'm the one with a simplistic grasp of politics and the one with an inability to see one's own presumptions and biases.
By the way, you told us you were going to go away until everyone agreed that Trump and his advisors had had no dealings with Russians. Given the 20 arrests and charges, and the guilty pleas, isn't your return . . . premature?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2018 10:57PM by Lot's Wife.
You mis-state my words Lot's Wife, although at one time on this forum, I decided that I had had enough of the one-sided political attacks, the attacks have subsided now. Rather than getting down in the mud with political debate here now, let's just wait to see what happens this coming November. About a year ago, I made a prediction about what to expect in the next congressional races. When November comes and if I was wrong about that, you can say 'I told you so'. Just because there is a witch hunt and people are accused of witchcraft doesn't mean there are real witches out there.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2018 11:24PM by azsteve.
I don't distort your words. That's what you said. If I am off-base, you can show that by reproducing that post.
I have no position on the midterms. Yes, you have offered your prognostications on that score. You may be right; you may be wrong. But the messianic cant that followed your midterm prediction was something to be remembered.
Your contention that guilty pleas and plea bargains and cooperative witnesses are evidence of a "witch hunt" is likewise unfortunate. That you so blithely dispense with evidence that doesn't fit your worldview indicates where the true obsession lies.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2018 11:36PM by Lot's Wife.
I think it can seem like there is a "community" but I've been engaged with my "recovery" in different forum for over 10 years now and what you find is that people make the decision to leave the cult and within a month or two or a year they just scatter out to something authentic to themselves and they don't need an "exmormon community" anymore. They then join another church, get active in some political cause, move away, get a new job, etc etc etc. They basically find a more authentic self and move on with their lives
Okay, Saucie, I'll bite. I think I understand what you are saying and I think I agree with you.
I do not believe there is much ethnic or cultural diversity here. The community started in Mormonism, which is predominantly white and American. People leave that culture and come to RfM. There are some people of color among the immigrants to this community, to be sure, but the board has also offended or frightened some off.
We also periodically see remarkably bald racial stereotyping. There was one post a year or two ago, for instance, that asked why Mormon areas were more organized and successful than non-Mormon areas like a specific city and a specific part of LA. There ensued a lively discussion that largely ignored the point that people were consciously or unconsciously using code to compare white versus black America. There have also been, from time to time, sweeping generalizations about--or, put differently, a lack of appreciation for the diversity of--certain Middle Eastern and South Asian ethnic groups and religions. There are also occasional posters who try to defend elements of the Mormon religious distinctions between different varieties of human beings. Some of those posts would appall most non-white readers.
All of this matters. The LGTBQ community here appears to be roughly what one would expect given their prevalence in broader society. There is also some religious diversity (although atheists and Christians are probably over-represented) and political liberals may be somewhat more common here than in the general Mormon community (although assuredly not as great as in the overall United States). But I am skeptical that the ethnic diversity of this board is anywhere near what one would expect in broader society.
Perhaps that fact is inevitable when you start with a culture that is a real outlier demographically and confined largely to certain geographical areas where the majority's interaction with people from non-dominant groups is quite limited. After all, not all racial preconception is born of ill will; it can arise from lack of experience as well.
With that in mind, it is probably easier to take the person out of the Morridor than to take the Morridor out of the person. It takes an open mind, abundant experience with others, and time, lots of time.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2018 10:37PM by Lot's Wife.
So, yeah. When I was on FB, I think that you and I were the only brown folks from this board in my friends group, which was kind of small, but still - I think it was just us.
There's an aspect of self-selection (remember Yahell?). It made sense for you and me and some other folks to migrate from Yahell to FB, and there was a *huge* RfM Friend Me on FB explosion around 2010.
But unless someone self-identifies here, there's no way to know if they're an ethnic/racial minority.
I've missed you so very much, Saucaaaay. You're Saucie, and I am not. :P
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2018 09:33PM by Beth.
There's a good spread in age, it seems half are female, half are male. Atheists and LTBGQ and Christians and non-Christians, Democrats and Republicans, all seem to be represented. All "stages of grief" are represented. There are newbies with those first few doubts, as well as people who have been out for many years. Those who seek help and those who give help. It's surprisingly diverse for a Mormon-originated group. I love you all!
--All of us are smart enough to ask questions. --Everyone has a good command of the English language. --People either own their own computer, or have access to one at work. --We value the Truth --We abhor abuse. --No one here likes cults. --We have enough self-respect to say "no" to being used and lied to. --We care enough about others, to try to warn them and to help them. --All of this limits the "diversity." We probably have more commonalities than disparities.
anono this week Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The forum is full of lots of older people with > lots of time on their hands and not a lot to do. > But yes there are a few younger people as well. > Sort of like a Mormon Church looks. Just Sassier.
What are the age groups? Has a poll been done? I am not that old.
I'm actually perpetually surprised at how many young people post here. Threads telling high school age posters they have to play by their parents rules while they are still at home are a staple here. Yes, there are retired posters here, but a great many posters, including some of the most frequent posters, are not that old.
I used to hang out with the Sunstone crowd. It has always been overwhelmingly an over-40 crowd. Since it seems now like the same crowd it was 20 years ago, I assume it is a mostly over-60 crowd.
Anyway, I give RFM high marks for age diversity. And good gender diversity. And more than its fair share of Aspergers posters, a group which is particularly poorly suited to Mormon culture.
Brother Of Jerry Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm actually perpetually surprised at how many > young people post here. Threads telling high > school age posters they have to play by their > parents rules while they are still at home are a > staple here. Yes, there are retired posters here, > but a great many posters, including some of the > most frequent posters, are not that old. > … > Anyway, I give RFM high marks for age diversity. > And good gender diversity. And more than its fair > share of Aspergers posters, a group which is > particularly poorly suited to Mormon culture.
These are excellent (and accurate) observations, Brother of Jerry. :)
Diverse how? In thought process? Ethnically? Physiologically? Proclivities? Food preferences? Coke or Pepsi? Easy going vs quick to anger. Beer vs Wine? Steak vs chicken vs vegetarian vs vegan vs bulimia? Dark Chocolate or Milk Chocolate? Bon vivant vs home body? Right side/left side? Continuing this or ending it?
No two snowflakes* are alike and yet from a distance they all seem the same. The more we get to know each other--really know each other--the more the whole world is the same and the more they are different all at the same time.
Exmos are a diverse people with a common denominator. That common denominator is one facet of multifaceted group.
Nobody is like me.
* Not to be confused with Snowflake now used as a trite slur.