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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: June 11, 2018 08:23AM

So how far would you go, just to prove you were right and that your ideaology is the correct one? Though this question addresses politics, it should be non-partison. As former members of the so-called "only true church on earth", most of us don't like to be proven wrong now.

How many people here would rather see Iran or North Korea get nuclear weapons now, just to prove that Obama was right after all, or to prove that Trump screwed up? Is there anyone here that would like to see California go bankrupt, to prove that illegal immigration or liberal financial policies always result in bad things happening? How many of us here would celebrate good things happening, even if those things were the results of actions that you totally opposed to begin with?

Please no political bashing of the other guy's beliefs. This is only about how far in your own mind, you would go to validate your own ideaology, even if it is done through unfortunate happenings. Are there any boundries and if so, where are those boundries set?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2018 08:29AM by azsteve.

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: June 11, 2018 09:04AM

Where it comes to me predicting that terrible things would happen if so-and-so were elected or some bill were passed, put me in the I-would-love-to-be-proved-wrong camp. Sure, I enjoy being proved right, but not if it comes at the expense of personal harm to others, a crippled economy, or a nuclear war.

At an emotional level, it's a little irritating on those rare occasions when I'm wrong. ;)

On a rational level, those same occasions become datapoints to be plugged into my ideology-forming algorithm.

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: June 11, 2018 09:20AM

Thanks GregS, without baiting a political arguement, you've come pretty close to describing how I see this issue too. For me, it's almost like a game. When I lose, I plug the new data in to my thought processes and move forward.

If the world goes too politically crazy, I climb under a metaphorical rock for four to eight years and wait until the storm blows over with the exception of voting. When you know what's going wrong and why and you can't do anything about it, it's not such a fun game to play. So you kind of watch and wait. Eventually the tide changes and you can do some good.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 08:53AM

Although I think we're at opposite ends of the political spectrum, Steve, I wholeheartedly agree :-)

It's the only way forward.

Tom in Paris

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: June 11, 2018 09:06AM

So tell us what you are right about.

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: June 11, 2018 09:22AM

That would be off topic.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: June 11, 2018 09:53AM

Like all the rest of your posts ?

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: June 11, 2018 10:29AM

How far would you go to label a political post as non-political with loaded questions just prove your point?

Why didn't you just come straight out and ask, "Who here is petty and vindictive?"

I'm with science. Finding out you are wrong means you are getting closer to the truth. Another layer peeled back, and all that jazz! I assume most feel that way. That has been my experience.

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 05:02AM

How can it be political when I ask everyone not to bash the beliefs of others, and then I don't fall in to Dave's lame attempt to trap me in to a partison political arguement so that he can disparage my beliefs, which disparagement is his pattern? Clearly, Dave fears being wrong because of his constant need for self-validation of his own beliefs.

By the way Done & Done, political posts that relate to Mormonism and its accompanying implications and/or dysfunctions is allowed. In this case however, no actual politics were actually introduced in this chain by me. If I wanted to know who is petty and vindictive, I would have asked that question. But the question was more about what role mormon dysfunctions still have in your life, even after leaving the church. It is interesting that you choose to attack both the questioner and the question, rather than to talk about what you really think and feel. It's really not so clear that the person you write about in the third sentence of your post is really the same person who wrote the first two sentences.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2018 05:06AM by azsteve.

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: June 11, 2018 11:56AM

Being proved right isn't much of a priority for me. However, I do get a little joy from I-told-you-so moments, although I rarely ever say it out loud.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: June 11, 2018 12:41PM

Probably 60 miles. I would go only about an hour in a car to prove I was right.

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 05:09AM

I think I would drive all the way to Salt Lake City if the church let it leak that their prophet would be holding a news conference to admit that the church is a fraud and I could see that live.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 03:10PM

I would drive 1000 miles for that.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: June 11, 2018 01:14PM

Who cares about being RIGHT?
As long as I'm not wrong!


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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: June 11, 2018 01:20PM

....not very far at all IF NOT proving it means I get to watch some one that I do NOT like flail away in self punishing error and agony.

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Posted by: readwrite-NLI ( )
Date: June 11, 2018 01:23PM

I wouldn't cross the street. It might cross me back!

That aught to do it. Otherwise it need not occur.

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Posted by: Felix ( )
Date: June 11, 2018 02:18PM

Winning the argument isn't the point of debate; getting to the truth of a matter is. Being well researched is important because one looses credibility if they don't have well documented facts. I have a conviction that the truth matters. I seldom debate because people don't like to engage. I always make it a point to acknowledge I was wrong when I loose but don't require it of others. It is difficult to get them to admit anyway.

I know this must sound arrogant but I seldom loose because I never debate a topic I haven't researched thoroughly. I have done considerable research to prove or disprove the veracity of church claims but members don't want to look at the facts. I have also done considerable research into much of what is dismissed as "conspiracy theory". The reason is because I believe it is important to know the truth. Are there powerful influences who would assassinate a sitting president or by other criminal means usurp the power of government away from it's rightful heirs? The truth matters.

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 05:14AM

A reasonable approach which also takes in to account the fact that others will attack you if you don't agree with what they see as their 'only true' world view.

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Posted by: TheHumanLeague ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 09:21AM

what is Truth? Huh?

Everyone has this conscience inside their head I guess.
The problem is that the "Formula" to decipher all the
issues/facts/questions/answers differs among most folks.

Example: Some folks believe in LDS as the (True Church)
Example: Some folks dont believe its a True Church.
Example: Some folks dont CARE about the History of LDS.
Example: Some folks do CARE about the History of LDS.

Then you can (Divide up various Issues) and then make up
you own mind what is important and what is not important.

Truth is "Subjective" or divisible to many folks. That
does not change the facts but thats why a Trial has jurors.

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Posted by: Babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 01:55PM

Most people reject what they see with their own two eyes if it conflicts with their preconceived notions.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 01:11PM

I would give anything to prove i was right to my entire family at the very least. But their brains are gone so it would not even register to them.

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Posted by: Babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 01:59PM

Sometimes being right just plain sucks.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 07:23PM

Babyloncansuckit Wrote:
> Sometimes being right just plain sucks.

Yes it sucks.

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Posted by: angela ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 01:29PM

Not worth the energy.
To "prove one is right and someone else is wrong" often just engages the ego and a spirit of competitiveness.

So not worth my energy

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Posted by: scaredhusband ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 01:38PM

Proving myself right doesn't keep my current relationships strong or successful. So I would say I don't go anywhere to prove I'm right. My relationships mean more to me than being right.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 02:12PM

"It's a rare person who wants to hear what they don't want to hear."
--Dick Cavett

But that's the only way you learn a lot of very useful stuff.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 03:02PM

I don't argue religion as I think they are all fraudulent, but I will argue a point fairly vociferously if I know I'm right (most of the time).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2018 03:10PM by Lethbridge Reprobate.

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Posted by: BYU Boner ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 07:28PM

I’m looking forward to arguing with you about which beer is best! Fuck religion, we don’t need that to have a good time!

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Posted by: spiritist ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 03:18PM

Unless something can actually be 'proven' it is not worth arguing about.

Just state your beliefs, let the other state their beliefs, agree to disagree and move on!

If anyone really wants to discuss 'evidence' to support their beliefs there are much more 'open' boards on the net to do that. Some people will actually discuss why they believe something versus arguing about something that normally cannot be proven. People on either side can at least see 'why' people believe what they do then research it if they want to.

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Posted by: BYU Boner ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 07:20PM

I’m a lot more existential as I get older—the only things for certain are death, taxes, and me dropping f-bombs. I don’t feel the need to prove anything anymore other than the Boner will rise again! Bro-hugs, AZSteve!

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 09:49PM

Thanks Boner !

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Posted by: Happy_Heretic ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 09:10PM

I would go so far to prove I am right that I always try to prove myself wrong first.

HH =)

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