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Posted by: Cold-Dodger ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 06:22AM

This friend of mine and I have been friends since we were preschoolers. We went at BYUI together. He listened to plenty of my rants about Mormon culture before I lost my faith altogether. He didn't want to listen after that, but we remained good friends and hung out often.

He got married in Rexburg. She's a great woman. They have a kid. She's had doubts about the church before, but they said they worked through it. Still, she knew that my friend and I have that kind of relationship with each other where we talk about almost anything. She also knew I no longer believed. So she reached out to me.

She's my friend's wife, which is awkward on one hand because the whole time I was thinking about what he would think about me anti-ing his spouse. It's not like we were exchanging nudes or anything... just questions about the church. On the other hand, I noticed a human soul burning with questions about Mormonism, so I answered her questions, invited her into a postmormon Facebook group, and sent her some resources.

A few nights later, my friend invited me to go see a movie with him. I figured it was really about his wife's doubts. I was right. But we hung out like we always done did. He's a really passive guy, more passive than me. He did not sound angry at me. He simply said, "I saw what you sent my wife. Thanks for that."

I asked him how they were doing, and he didn't answer that question. Neither did he push the issue further. He changed the topic. If it was consuming his mind, he allowed it to slip away pretty quickly. But that's his personality type. I suppose I should assume that it is consuming his mind.

I've toned down my contrarianism to the church way down. I'm not a member anymore. I don't go to church. But I can be around my family and around old friends, and there's some semblance of normal again. Then something happens that reminds me how divergent my views on everything are now, and it makes me afraid to invite ire on my head again. I shrink away and mind to myself unless someone singles me out and confronts me about something.

I feel like a confidant for both my friend and his wife. I don't mean to set them against each other. I just try to be whatever each of them obviously needs without also being disingenuous about what I am. I'm not pushing an agenda on either of them. I'm just present for them. I'm not sure how to navigate this situation.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 06:44AM

I think you did alright. It's great that you are no longer enflamed by your own passions on the subject. It allows you to simply report the news. Well done.

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Posted by: deja vue ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 04:29PM

I agree. Why should you have to go through your friend to be allowed to speak openly and honestly with his wife? She reached out and you responded in like manner.

I realize this may harm your relationship with your friend but only if he chooses it to. I suspect, down the road, he will either thank you or he and his wife may decide to split. Still, it is not your problem. Just keep being the open, honest person you are and keep your integrity intact.

You done good in my book.

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Posted by: quidprostatusquo ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 05:15PM

Weird that she has your contact info.

Weird that she reached out to you behind his back.

Weird that you engaged in it behind his back.

Just kinda weird, that's all.

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Posted by: Cold-Dodger ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 05:29PM

Was on FB.

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Posted by: quidprostatusquo ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 05:31PM

That's a horse of a different color! Then I say it's all good and you did the right thing.

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Posted by: midwestanon ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 05:57PM

Behind his back implies that it was ever secret or kept from the husband, which it doesn’t sound like it ever was.

So why is it weird?

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Posted by: quidprostatusquo ( )
Date: June 13, 2018 01:05AM

3rd paragraph. But like I said, different story when I realized it was social media.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 06:23PM

Having shared some resources, I would take a step back. Any more help might be construed by your friend as interference in his marriage. I would give them some time to work through this together.

Always good to hear from you, Cold-Dodger. :)

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Posted by: Bill ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 06:42PM

Just assuming you want to weigh opinions about how to "navigate' between your friends wife and your best friend. Are you okay if someone disagrees with you?

Here is my opinion. So this is your friend's reaction, this incredibly passive laid back fellow, ""I saw what you sent my wife. Thanks for that."

Guess what..he didn't like you communicating to his wife about this. The topic is a source of tension, and he didn't appreciate it for probably several reasons. He probably felt a little betrayed by you. I would have. Doesn't matter what other posters are saying that agree with your actions - what matters is how your friend felt about it. He didn't like it. I wouldn't do it again if I were you. You lucky he's passive, because you could have lost a friend. Don't push it.

It is never cool to chat about an issue that is critical to a marriage - an issue that could cause tension. You betrayed your friendship with him. You should apologize to him, refrain from have that sort of conversation with her (a topic that would cause tension between them).

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Posted by: Jane Cannary ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 08:29PM

I disagree. If this were a child I'd agree with you. But the wife is a grown woman. She can decide what she talks about and which questions she asks. She's not an idiot needing her man to tell her what she believes.

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Posted by: Bill ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 08:53PM

Children don't get married???? His wife is a grown MARRIED women, and you f*** w/ another man's marriage at any level - no matter how innocent or benign it may seem. If the involvement causes any potential problem w/ that couple, common respect man to man - would call for ceasing the interaction. The OP needs to show respect for his friend. I am surprised at some of the advice, like yours, given here. Maybe I am just old school, but if a man (friend or otherwise) caused my wife and I to have discord - I would be pissed, and most men would.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: June 12, 2018 08:56PM


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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: June 13, 2018 12:18AM

"Mind your husband, woman"?

"This is an inappropriate conversation, and while I'm honored that you trust me enough to ask my advice about what I know is a damn hard process, sorry. Go find help elsewhere"?

What response do you think would be appropriate for this situation?

The OP isn't causing discord. Causing/sowing discord is giving unsolicited advice to his friend's wife with the intent of dicking up their relationship.


And this "Children don't get married [a bazillion superfluous question marks]". What the hell does the deplorable practice of child marriage have to do with anything? I understand Jane Cannary to be saying that while it might not be appropriate to discuss religious beliefs with a child whose parents are raising her in a different faith, adults are autonomous beings with brains.


Jesus, man. Check your ego and your caveman club at the door.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2018 12:19AM by Beth.

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Posted by: jay ( )
Date: June 13, 2018 12:37AM

I'd say the same thing to the partner of any good friend.

Sometimes the caveman has a vagina.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: June 13, 2018 12:39AM

I don't know what you would have said, Jay. I don't see your name on this thread.

ETA: Above this comment you just made, I mean.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2018 12:41AM by Beth.

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Posted by: jay ( )
Date: June 13, 2018 12:46AM

<<I don't know what you would have said, Jay.>>

"Hi Suzie. I'm glad you felt like you could reach out to me. You know, I really love Kevin and consider him one of my best friends. I'm concerned that discussing this without Kevin being a part of the conversation could impact my friendship. I want to be supportive of Kevin's dream and goals and I'd also like to support you. Do you think we could have this conversation with Kevin?"

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: June 13, 2018 12:50AM

Still, I think Bill's (your?) anger with the OP makes little sense. I think part of the human condition is responding when people ask for help. Her husband is a TBM, IIRC. Having him part of the conversation is not actually conducive to discussing leaving TSCC.

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Posted by: jay ( )
Date: June 13, 2018 01:17AM

It’s conducive to the friendship.

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Posted by: Bill ( )
Date: June 13, 2018 07:30AM

Anger?????? What are you talking about Beth. I have no anger toward the OP whatsoever. I see a young man who is honestly seeking opinion from a forum, and will weigh the opinions given to him. I was just giving my opinion to him like you are. Are you angry w/ the OP Beth?

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: June 13, 2018 12:47AM

your possible alter ego did not offer anything but criticism, not, "Hey - here's how I would have handled it," but "Nah, bruh. You crossed a Man Line."

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Posted by: jay ( )
Date: June 13, 2018 01:19AM

You’re talking with your vagina.

I’m talking about how I choose to treat people. Regardless of whether they have balls.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: June 13, 2018 01:30AM

here's what Bill (you?) wrote (I keep going back to Bill, because I took issue with his comments, and up until your (jay's) response on this branch of the thread, you hadn't written anything in response to the OP, yet you responded to me as if I had posed a question to you - don't worry, Admin will slap me if I'm wrong):

"Maybe I am just old school, but if a man (friend or otherwise) caused my wife and I to have discord - I would be pissed, and most men would."

"common respect man to man"

"and you f*** w/ another man's marriage at any level"


So, Bill made it about gender. A lot about gender. That's what I honed in on. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Posted by: Bill ( )
Date: June 13, 2018 07:34AM

I signed off early after this thread to go to dinner at a local café w/ my wife, and adult children. Beth, I don't know if you are implying that Bill = Jay, but I am not the same person as Jay. You can ask adm if you are in doubt. Who know's who Jay is, people change their moniker's all the time.

Beth, I didn't make it about gender. You misunderstood. I made it about being very careful how a friend interacts w/ another's spouse. I happen to agree w/ Jay though. Gender does not matter to me. It could have been two friends that were women, and a husband that had reached out. I just have a different about than you Beth, but my opinion is not about gender whatsoever, and I certainly was not angry at all..lol.

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Posted by: Bill ( )
Date: June 13, 2018 07:42AM

OMG..Beth..wow...Jane stated, "If this were a child I'd agree with you"...I just didn't understand the relevance because the OP was talking about the "awkwardness" of how his friend might feel regarding the OP talking to his wife out this subject. To me Jane was comparing apples and oranges (i.e. children and married adults). I apologize for offending you Beth.

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Posted by: Aquarius123 ( )
Date: June 13, 2018 06:46AM

When I was married, my husband would confide or just share with other women things he should have been talking about with me. It was very hurtful to me. Some of these women would run with it and get all up in our business. My ex narcissist husband ate that up, and it was a way for him to get attention from women. I just think you should stay the hell out of other people's marriages, period. If someone starts that kind of conversation with you, you can politely tell them that you can't discuss the mater with them and suggest talking to the spouse about it.

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Posted by: Aquarius123 ( )
Date: June 13, 2018 07:42AM

I know you were trying to help, cold dodger (I'm glad to see you again by the way!) I'm just telling you what happened to me, and some things you may want to avoid. <3

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