This is a question i have been trying to answer forever it seems. Who is the real adam? And when he emerges will i even recognize it? Spent most of my life suppressed and with a false created cover that i don't know exactly who i am or how to become who i am. Sure you could give anyone any type of label like kind, angry, or dickhead but is that really who they are? Not really. Kind of a crazy thing to struggle with, having no sense of real self or real identity. Am i just a blank person that calls himself the badass? Maybe. Hard questions to answer.

I totally relate.

Religions like Mormonism (and a lot of society and culture too) (and people like your father) start off by convincing us that whoever we are, whatever we are, it's broken, insufficient, wrong. Because they want to change us into something that better serves their needs.

It was tough figuring out who/what I am after I stopped listening to the people who wanted to remake me. Self-doubt and the need for external validation had been trained into me.

I found a humorist and writer in there.

donbagley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I found a humorist and writer in there.

Nice. I think there might be a smart person within me somewhere as crazy as that sounds.

Why not?

Sometimes I look back to who I was in my early 20s, and wonder, is there anything of that girl left? And I think there is. I also think there are certain things that need to be recovered, such as a sense of adventure that has gotten buried under life demands. I'm hoping that my eventual retirement helps me to shed some of the mental toughness that I've needed in my career. I've needed that toughness, but I want to step back from that as I am able.

I am glad to be out of the cult. But in all honesty I would rather not exist.

jett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am glad to be out of the cult. But in all
> honesty I would rather not exist.

I feel like we have a lot in common. I too would rather not exist if i had a choice. But the body keeps breathing so i keep going.

I'm with you, Jett. A lot of heartache would have been spared. I suspect that existence is overrated.

Nonexistence is not an option. You'd just be someone else dealing with some other issue.

xxMMMooo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nonexistence is not an option. You'd just be
> someone else dealing with some other issue.

Are you sure we would be someone else? Our intelligence would always exist somewhere type of thing?

xxMMMooo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nonexistence is not an option. You'd just be
> someone else dealing with some other issue.


That is an interesting theory. I wonder if it could hold up, scientifically.

The fact that you don't really feel that way is self-evident.

I really appreciate the Buddhist concept of, If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.
Once you realize that the guru is no Buddha, that he is just another human struggling. Understanding the shape of your own personal pain will lead you on your journey to recovery.
Idemtity is ego. Kill your ego. What remains is what you really are.
In the end, Love is all that really matters.
Being loved deeply gives you hope.
Loving another deeply gives you courage.

koriwhore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really appreciate the Buddhist concept of, If
> you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.
> Once you realize that the guru is no Buddha, that
> he is just another human struggling. Understanding
> the shape of your own personal pain will lead you
> on your journey to recovery.
> Idemtity is ego. Kill your ego. What remains is
> what you really are.
> In the end, Love is all that really matters.
> Being loved deeply gives you hope.
> Loving another deeply gives you courage.

Never heard that buddhist concept before. Would it be the same as killing christ and then realizing he was just another struggling human?

Badassadam1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Am I just a blank
> person that calls himself the badass? Maybe.
> Hard questions to answer.


A blank person is the farthest thing in the world from what you are! If I had to chose a user-name for you, it would be:

AdamTheRealDeal.


For me, I'm re-making myself. My sainted mother never wanted to name me "Kathleen." She was over run by relatives and didn't name and my twin sister what she chose--for me, a name that I'd have liked. So, at 65, I'm going up to the court house and changing it to what she wanted for her own little baby, and I'm going to be the person that I chose to be--polite, thin, educated and determined, and with Mom's pretty name.

kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Badassadam1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Am I just a blank
> > person that calls himself the badass? Maybe.
> > Hard questions to answer.
>
>
> A blank person is the farthest thing in the world
> from what you are! If I had to chose a user-name
> for you, it would be:
>
> AdamTheRealDeal.
>
>
> For me, I'm re-making myself. My sainted mother
> never wanted to name me "Kathleen." She was over
> run by relatives and didn't name and my twin
> sister what she chose--for me, a name that I'd
> have liked. So, at 65, I'm going up to the court
> house and changing it to what she wanted for her
> own little baby, and I'm going to be the person
> that I chose to be--polite, thin, educated and
> determined, and with Mom's pretty name.

The realmotherf#ckingdeal haha as i limp around. I don't really have the most lively personality yet but it's trying to come back for sure. I miss what i used to be before pain.

Chronic, intense pain can really change your personality. I only experienced it for one month, but it was enough to be instructive. I think you are on the right track, Adam, in trying to improve your health and be pain-free.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chronic, intense pain can really change your
> personality. I only experienced it for one month,
> but it was enough to be instructive. I think you
> are on the right track, Adam, in trying to improve
> your health and be pain-free.

I'm on a decent track compared to past tracks i have been on i think. Do i wish my body could get out of pain on its own without help? Yes i do. Constant pain does change you for sure. It would be much easier to work through psychological stuff as well without pain.

IcyHot patches work like magic. So does the cream. Aspercream as well. Just be sure it has 4% lidocaine.

My brother has had neck and back surgeries, and he loves the patches.

Costco has a great price on them.

Icyhot and aspercreme doesn't work on me.

>>I'm going to be the person that I chose to be--polite, thin, educated and determined, and with Mom's pretty name.

You will need to change your board name to reflect the new you. :)

I think you are right about being who you choose to be. One thing that I've been trying to reconcile lately is my more conventional nature with my artistic side. When I studied studio art in college I was one of two more conventional students, and we were definitely the outliers. But why can't I be conventional and paint? Who says I can't be both?

summer Wrote:
When I studied studio art
> in college I was one of two more conventional
> students, and we were definitely the outliers. But
> why can't I be conventional and paint? Who says I
> can't be both?

I can relate, Summer. I completed a piano performance major along with my pre-med studies. I was definitely an outlier in relation to most of the music majors even at BYU. The music professors would have preferred for me not to have been in the department.

That's very interesting, scmd. I can see the connection in that music and math performance are known to be linked. Do you still enjoying playing the piano?

I was never made to feel unwelcome in my major by either professors or students. But I was definitely different from the norm.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's very interesting, scmd. I can see the
> connection in that music and math performance are
> known to be linked. Do you still enjoying playing
> the piano?
>
> I was never made to feel unwelcome in my major by
> either professors or students. But I was
> definitely different from the norm.


My dad has told me that back in the day, music majors were often math minors.

I still play for pleasure several times a week. I do a couple of paying gigs a year. I'm on the adjunct faculty at a University of California close to where I live, and I fill in as a piano accompanist there for senior recitals and master recitals on occasion when someone's accompaniment falls through.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2018 02:56PM by scmd1.

now than I was as a mormon. I actually don't worry too much about it. I know who I am in my own quiet places, without anyone else telling me what to be or what to feel. I act more like "myself" now. The big thing I've been dealing with with my therapist is making people around me UNDERSTAND that this is what I expect if you are in my life. It is hard for me to make those kind of demands. I'm definitely a people pleaser and I'm working on not being such a rug.

I'm to the point that I prefer to be alone than have people around me telling me what to be. I like being with my dogs. That's what it comes down to.

There was a time I didn't want to exist. Now I owe it to my kids to exist as I brought them into this world through no choice of their own. I now think it is the ultimate selfishness to bring children into the world.

I feel much more comfortable around the "sinners" than the "saints." I knew that in my 20s when I started dating and associating with nonmormons, but I had to be a mormon. Stupid me. At least I found my way out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2018 06:41PM by cl2.

I never heard that it was selfish to bring children into the world. That is an interesting thing to think about. I fit in with society's rejects really well. They don't seem like rejects to me. But i can't stand to be around a mormon for more than a minute. I know all their quotes, i know their programmed minds. Most can't figure out that they are screwed up people and need professional help. I at least knew something was wrong and admitted it.

There is an old saying: We all are at least three people - The person who we think we are, the person other people think we are, and then there is the person who we actually are.

This is a question as old as humans themselves. Can we really know ourselves? Maybe, but I have my doubts. For one reason, we are so dynamic, both biologically and psychologically, that what we are is always in flux. I just don't think it is possible to step outside of ourselves to gain the necessary objectivity. Still, every now and then we get a glimmer. Enough to make it worth while trying.

MarkJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is an old saying: We all are at least three
> people - The person who we think we are, the
> person other people think we are, and then there
> is the person who we actually are.
>
> This is a question as old as humans themselves.
> Can we really know ourselves? Maybe, but I have my
> doubts. For one reason, we are so dynamic, both
> biologically and psychologically, that what we are
> is always in flux. I just don't think it is
> possible to step outside of ourselves to gain the
> necessary objectivity. Still, every now and then
> we get a glimmer. Enough to make it worth while
> trying.

Never heard that saying that we are at least 3 people but it makes sense.

Quit asking us and ask yourself

what B.S. ?

false predications

So who is my real self without all the false predictions ? Is that supposed to make sense ?

Only if you understand grammar and intuit its application to personality.

All the acquired add-ons--physical identifications, habits, personal reactions, slanted viewpoints (and which aren't slanted?) and ideologies--that we habitually take to be "me."

I came across the term in philosopher Franklin Merrill-Wolff. In philosophy, it is the attribution of a predicate (or attribute) to a subject. False predication is taking wrong, bogus, or superficial attributes to be our real characteristics. In Buddhism, for example, this would include everything that we perceive or conceive about ourselves with our limited senses and biased minds.

Hope that helps.

In more contemporary language, it might be called "fake news" about oneself--that we ourselves make up, from extremely partial data, and believe about us. Of course part of that may be what others call us or say about us, from their own extremely partial data. So, erroneous programming from ourselves and others.

Afraid of a little self introspection Dave?

There is considerable irony, as well as redundancy, in that question.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2018 04:25AM by Lot's Wife.

...the real me is ALL bs... There is no me without bs.

How's that for real bs humility?

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...the real me is ALL bs... There is no me
> without bs.
>
> How's that for real bs humility?

Have you ever told a true story old dog? Haha. I think i believed your moroni one.

Just an old retired farmer, who's kinda lonely most of the time.

I am sorry, again, about your loss.

One gets used to being alone, LW. I had family here this weekend so that was fun and I an getting to the fond reminiscing stage. Thank you for your thoughts.

I can pretty much relate to all of these comments. I find it interesting that when you were in the Church you kind of knew who you were based on false beliefs. And then after you leave you wonder -"who the hell am I"? The earlier you leave the better, but if you have spent decades in the Church I think it is more difficult to find your real self.

PDX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can pretty much relate to all of these comments.
> I find it interesting that when you were in the
> Church you kind of knew who you were based on
> false beliefs. And then after you leave you
> wonder -"who the hell am I"? The earlier you
> leave the better, but if you have spent decades in
> the Church I think it is more difficult to find
> your real self.

Yes, decades in it can rob you of your real self. Kind of scary but accurate.

I left when I was 20 and in the six years since that time, I've only figured out a few things about the real me,

1. I don't get along with authorities and don't trust anyone who claims to know what's best for me
2. I SUCK at talking to most people, in person and on forums (in case you haven't noticed)
3. I tend to prefer the company of "weird" people over "normal" people
4. I'm not interested in being a leader or special. I just want to live my life


My knowing myself is still a work in progress and probably will be for years.

We have those things in common. I had to start out by pointing out things that i didn't like and would not put up with when i was around it. Pretty much anything related to mormonism is unhealthy for my brain. The longer i am away, the more my brain is allowed to heal into something i recognize as myself i think.