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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: July 09, 2018 03:32PM

The angel Moroni standing a'top some of the Mormon temples is featured holding a trumpet. The symbolism is a reference to NT scripture that the gospel will be spread all over the earth.

The angel Moroni with trumpet isn't really about Moroni. It's a biblical reference ... and Moroni was NO ANGEL either.

More false witnessing by a bogus religion.

And pagan idolatry.

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Posted by: Ohdeargoodness nli ( )
Date: July 09, 2018 08:57PM

Great observation... I always enjoy your posts!

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Posted by: Vuze ( )
Date: July 10, 2018 12:00PM

I believe (in my heart of hearts) that *this* is the comparison you are looking for:

https://i.imgur.com/ntVkZKL.jpg

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: July 11, 2018 03:10PM

Excellent! :)

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Posted by: BYU Boner ( )
Date: July 09, 2018 09:01PM

A trumpet the length of Moroni’s would product a horribly high-pitched buzz, just saying! The Tight-Lipped Boner.

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Posted by: op47 ( )
Date: July 10, 2018 05:38PM

I suspect the trumpet for Brandenburg 2 would be about that length. Though Moroni's "trumpet" is not a trumpet. A trumpet has a cylindrical bore and Moroni's is conical bored. Like a horn or a vuvuzela.

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Posted by: anono this week ( )
Date: July 09, 2018 09:09PM

right they should have a salamander blowing the trumpet.

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: July 09, 2018 09:14PM

Or they should have someone who blows , blow the trumpet.

suggestions?

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Posted by: Aquarius123 ( )
Date: July 10, 2018 01:27PM

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now THIS is a trumpet player...
>
> https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2011/02/28/dizzyg
> illespie-21e2eb6f459435ab400eaab2eb22b938bfd09948-
> s900-c85.jpg

He's the greatest! They could put Dizzy on all the temples! And they can't put him down for being a nonmember, because I'm sure the dummies have dead-dunked him.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: July 09, 2018 09:24PM

Confusing hybrid theology is common to cults, as their founders tend to make up doctrine to suit their ecclesiastical (read: power & exploitation) needs as they go. Your point is that is includes symbols and icons. The Masonic symbols on the SLC temple are another case in point.

I'm especially intrigued by your observation that "Moroni was NO ANGEL either." I always thought it odd that Captain Moroni, last survivor of rag-tag bunch of exhausted, near-extinct New World Hebrews somehow became an angel.

I've asked this before, without getting much of an answer answer, so a retry: Is there specific LDS doctrine, or commonly shared belief, where at least some humans transition through angelhood on their eternal progression/exaltation to godhood? I'm curious about both official doctrine and folk Mormonism.

If this is, or was, so, is it something dropped down the "I don't think we ever taught that" memory hole?

Yes, everybody on this board regards this as silly and false, but I'm asking from the standpoint of what an ordinary Mormon might include in his belief system.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: July 09, 2018 09:30PM

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've asked this before, without getting much of an
> answer answer, so a retry: Is there specific LDS
> doctrine, or commonly shared belief, where at
> least some humans transition through angelhood on
> their eternal progression/exaltation to godhood?
> I'm curious about both official doctrine and folk
> Mormonism.

As usual, what mormons believe and teach evolved.
Smith (and all the other early mormons) called Moroni (or was it Nephi? So many stories about who visited Joseph and where/when) an angel. Later, as they gained more "light and understanding," they decided that he was simply a glorified resurrected being, not specially an angel.

But, wait (you may rightly ask): how come Moroni was already resurrected, isn't the resurrection only supposed to have one exception, and that's Jesus?

Well, sure, the mormons will say -- unless Elohim has some special task for you to perform, such as delivering the gold plates to Joseph and stuff, in which case you get early admission to the resurrection queue. After all, what's a few thousand years when resurrected beings are eternal and all?

So, to summarize: there are no angels. They're just resurrected-early beings that Elohim had a special mission for.

Amen.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: July 09, 2018 09:48PM

And in the inimitable Hie-Too-Kolob style.

Amen & etc.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: July 11, 2018 01:29PM

Hie is right that "angels" are beings who are prematurely resurrected to serve specific purposes; they are often "true messengers," if we use the curious lexicon from the temple. The term also includes, though, spirit beings who are serving particular roles before being resurrected. Those would include spiritual messengers before the tie of Jesus, who was of course the first to be resurrected.

There is also a category of angels in the Celestial Kingdom. That realm is divided into three categories. The gods in training inhabit the top third. Little is known of those in the second and third levels, but D&C 132 says that they are forever "ministering angels," which I interpret as meaning resurrected beings who serve the reproductive beings in the top level.

So messengers and agents, temporarily, during the temporal existence of creation; and suboptimal beings in the celestial kingdom. Two different types of angels.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: July 09, 2018 09:50PM

I think there's some belief that angels are below the spirits in the spirit world, but higher than mortals. Ministering angels biblically, are callings though, and intermediaries between heaven and earth.

Given that we know so little other than folklore and hearsay, there are numerous anecdotal stories passed down through the generations of angelic intervention in the lives of everyday people and events. This is irrespective of what religious ideology someone believes in.

In Mormon teachings I remember as a young girl being taught there's are differences between ministering angels and messengers. Nothing specific as to whether resurrected beings become angels from Mormon teachings, other than pure speculation to my knowledge.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: July 10, 2018 10:15AM

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Given that we know so little other than folklore
> and hearsay...

It's all folklore and hearsay. No knowledge whatsoever.

> ...pure speculation to my knowledge.

Anything about "angels," mormon or not, is pure speculation.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: July 10, 2018 11:06AM

Well I've experienced divine intercession in my lifetime. So for me, it was based on first hand accounts.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 10, 2018 12:12PM

Have you ever asked ghawd, or yourself, "Why me?"

Many, many believing deists have hoped for, pleaded for divine intercession and not gotten it. Do you ever wonder why you keep getting it, while so many others don't?

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: July 10, 2018 12:31PM

No. I went from being an agnostic though to a believer because of answers to prayer.

I am convinced there is someone up there who hears and answers us. It wasn't always so. Until my teen years when I went through a questioning searching phase. I'm satisfied with the answers I received.

I cannot speak for others, only for myself. There are myriad examples of people having their prayers answered. Mine is not unique. At nineteen, when I was agnostic, it was enough to make a believer out of me. I haven't questioned again whether there's the existence of a deity watching out for us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2018 12:33PM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 10, 2018 12:36PM

How about if and when people ask you straight out, "Why you and not my sister who ...", etc., etc.?

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: July 10, 2018 12:55PM

They don't. Most people I associate with other than here on RfM are believers.

Who believe in the power of prayer and faith in their lives.

Even atheists I've known are mostly respectful of believers they associate with, and don't mind prayers when ill or in hospital said for them, because they have their own form of meditation and personal reflection they keep.. and are not angry atheists. Some just don't know whether there's a god or not. Those would be agnostic though.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: July 11, 2018 01:15PM

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well I've experienced divine intercession in my
> lifetime. So for me, it was based on first hand
> accounts.

Well, let's be honest: you've experienced "something."
That you couldn't explain.
So you called it "divine intervention."
Even though you don't know it was "divine intervention."
Or something else.

Which is fine.
But it's not the same thing :)

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: July 11, 2018 03:15PM

For want of a better definition, it was divine intervention.

You can keep your fuzzy semantics.

"divine intervention
A miracle or act of god (or gods) that causes something good to happen or stops something bad from happening."

YourDictionary.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2018 03:16PM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 11, 2018 04:17PM

Santa Claus

a fat, white-bearded, jolly old man in a red suit, who lives at the North Pole, makes toys for children, and distributes gifts at Christmas time.
Also called Father Christmas,

YourDictionary.com

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: July 11, 2018 04:29PM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Santa Claus
>
> a fat, white-bearded, jolly old man in a red suit,
> who lives at the North Pole, makes toys for
> children, and distributes gifts at Christmas time.
>
> Also called Father Christmas,
>
> YourDictionary.com


hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahhaahhahhaah... I love it.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: July 10, 2018 04:43PM

It’s not speculation if you’ve actually seen angels. Some people have. That doesn’t mean we know anything about them.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: July 11, 2018 01:18PM

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It’s not speculation if you’ve actually seen
> angels. Some people have. That doesn’t mean we
> know anything about them.

Some people have *claimed* to see angels.
Absent evidence to back their claims up (and they have none), there's no reason to believe their claims.

Other people have claimed to see leprechauns. And aliens. And bigfoot. And all sorts of other wacky things. Their lacking-evidence claims go in the same boat as "angel" claims -- unverifiable, making it unreasonable to simply accept them as valid.

Maybe they did see "angels." Maybe they didn't. I don't know which it is. Neither do you. 'Cause there's no evidence that would allow us to know one way or the other.

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Posted by: Titanic Survivor ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 06:01PM

There are people who sincerely believe they have seen something (paranormal). That does not make a miraculous claim true, not remotely. Construct, artifact of the brain.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: July 10, 2018 12:29AM

It’s not a trumpet, it’s a dog whistle.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: July 10, 2018 12:40AM

It's a vuvuzela

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: July 10, 2018 10:18AM


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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: July 10, 2018 11:11AM

The Australian temple should replace the trumpet with a didgeridoo.

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Posted by: TheHumanLeague ( )
Date: July 10, 2018 01:41PM

I figured it was a GIANT sized doobie.

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Posted by: cynful ( )
Date: July 11, 2018 07:06AM

^^^ Now THAT would certainly be calling my name!!!

Yep, get that TR just to be able to fire up a big fatty in the Celestial Room!!! Just don't burn the plastic on all those white couches!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2018 07:07AM by cynful.

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Posted by: Shinehah ( )
Date: July 11, 2018 06:24PM

Hurry up and get it smoked because there's another group coming through!

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 11, 2018 06:51PM

Hahahahahahahaha! Excellent!

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Posted by: Alice in Chains ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 08:21AM

When I was very young riding around SLC with my uncle from California, he told me that the gold person on top of the temple was Herb Albert from the Tijuana Brass. I believed it and I told all of my friends. My mom quickly received several phone calls wondering just where I would get such ghastly information.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 08:41AM

That's really cute. Herb Albert was at least more relevant.

:)

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