More Crazy Dept:

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-spiritual-adviser-jesus-immigration-1019023


"Paula White, President Donald Trump’s spiritual adviser, said Monday that Jesus would have been sinful if he had violated immigration laws.

“I think so many people have taken biblical scriptures out of context on this, to say stuff like, ‘well, Jesus was a refugee,’’ White said to the Christian Broadcasting Network. “And yes, he did live in Egypt for three-and-a-half years. But it was not illegal. If he had broke the law then he would have been sinful and he would not have been our Messiah,”

The point of this is that if you lead a cult or have cult-like followers you can bend religion to support any twisted ideology you so choose.

BTW, Jesus did break the law -- according to the Romans.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2018 07:04PM by anybody.

Any relation to Walter White?

So if Jesus had lived in what is now the USA during the 1800s, and had helped slaves escape their captivity, he would not qualify for the Christian title of Mashiach?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_United_States

Fancy" was a code word that indicated the girl or young woman was suitable for or trained for sexual use.[60]:56 Light-skinned girls, who contrasted with the black field workers, were preferred.

The sexual use of black slaves by white men, either slave owners or those who could purchase the temporary services of a slave, took various forms. A slaveowner, or his teenage sons, could go to the slave quarters area of the plantation and do what he wanted, usually in front of the rest of the slaves, or with minimal privacy. It was not unusual for a "house" female — a housekeeper, maid, cook, laundress, or nanny — to be used by one or more white males of the household for their sexual enjoyment. Houses of prostitution throughout the slave states were largely staffed by female slaves providing sexual services, to their owners' profit. There were a small number of free black females engaged in prostitution, or concubinage, especially in New Orleans

Light-skinned young girls were sold openly for sexual use; their price was much higher than that of a field hand. Special markets for the fancy girl trade existed in New Orleans and Lexington, Kentucky. We have this on no less an authority than Abraham Lincoln:

Describing the 1828 trip, Gentry vividly remembered a day in New Orleans when he and the nineteen-year-old Lincoln came upon a slave market. Pausing to watch, Gentry recalled looking down at Lincoln's hands and seeing that he "doubled his fists tightly; his knuckles went white." Men wearing black coats and white hats buy field hands, "black and ugly," for $500 to 800. And then the real horror begins: "When the sale of "fancy girls" began, Lincoln, "unable to stand it any longer," muttered to Gentry "Allen that's a disgrace. If I ever get a lick at that thing I'll hit it hard."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2018 07:27PM by anybody.

All I know is that Jesus didn't pay no damn taxes!

Nor did he collect tithings...

And he was a child. He didn't travel to Egypt all on his lonesome through his own desire but was taken there by his parents.

Kind of like other little kids when they have to go where their folks take them.

So. Even if it was breaking the law, it wasn't his choice to do that.

Ergo: It would not have rendered him "sinful".

Besides, isn't there any age of accountability? Babies and young children are exempt from responsibility until a certain age, no?

So, again, not sinful.

He broke Jewish law and the Romans did crucify him. They at least thought he broke the law. Paula is getting a lot of flake. Apparently she has no theological training and no education beyond high school. I say apparently because I read it and havent confirmed it. Regardless, her theology sounds pretty simplistic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2018 08:08AM by bona dea.

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He broke Jewish law and the Romans did crucify
> him.

I was just referencing the comment that Jesus, the baby, broke the law. Obviously, he couldn't make choices at that age and so could not be held accountable for his parents' actions.

I meant he broke laws, or the Romans thought he did, as an adult which is why they killed him



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2018 12:15AM by bona dea.

I'm more surprised that Trump has "spiritual adviser".

She was there during the campaign. Says he's very spiritual. Some folks can surprise you!

Isn’t Paula White one of those prosperity gospel crooks?

She’s a fine looking woman though.

EDIT: Finding out she’s married to one of the members of Journey kind of ruined that for me.

Trump's Spiritual Adviser: Sure, Jesus Was A Refugee, But He Didn't Do Anything Illegal

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trumps-spiritual-adviser-sure-jesus-was-a-refugee-but-he-didnt-do-anything-illegal/ar-AAzWHA1?li=BBnbcA1

White:

"I sold my soul for some tv time, publicity, and access to a president! Woo-hoo!"

:(

ElderOldDog: Jesus did pay taxes. Joseph and Mary traveled to Bethlehem to register for the tax. There's the miracle of the coin in the fishhead, which he used to pay taxes. One of his more famous teachings is, "Render unto Cesar that which is Cesar's, and unto God that which is God's."

White is correct in that the Holy Family took refuge in Egypt (fleeing Herod), but there is no indication of any border restrictions.

Anybody, Jesus did not break the law according to the Romans (Pilate: "I find no wrong in this man") but according to the Jewish Sanhedrin. The charge was blasphemy, because he claimed the office of Divinity.

Anybody: A general principle of Christ's teachings is that mercy supersedes the law. Going into detail would involve an essay.

What is Trump's spirituality? Who knows? Liberals look for signs of irreligiosity or (even better) religiosity to tarnish him with. Conservatives look for signs of authentic faith to claim him as one of their own. With Trump, I think both are likely to be disappointed. Paula White appears to be a Christian eccentric, more of a highly emotive charismatic than a prosperity preacher. But in all too many cases, those overlap. There's plenty to revile or praise about Trump, depending upon your politics, without getting into his spiritual beliefs.

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's plenty to
> revile or praise about Trump, depending upon your
> politics, without getting into his spiritual
> beliefs.

I would say there's plenty to revile about the man personally, without getting into either politics OR spiritual beliefs.

:)

they could care less about any Jewish charge of blasphemy.


https://source.wustl.edu/2004/02/romans-are-to-blame-for-death-of-jesus/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2018 12:58PM by anybody.

> ElderOldDog: Jesus did pay taxes. Joseph
> and Mary traveled to Bethlehem to register
> for the tax.

I totally agree that the bible recounts the above story. But this episode, starting before Jesus was born, says nothing about Jesus' feelings about paying taxes. It doesn't even say that Joseph and Mary paid any taxes, just that they registered for the tax.


> There's the miracle of the coin in the fish
> head, which he used to pay taxes.

I wish the Matthew had finished the story! Did Peter do as he was instructed? Did he find the 4 drachmae coin? Did he take the coin to the temple to pay for Jesus? Did he get change, or did he pay for one other person? Did he get a receipt?


> One of his more famous teachings is, "Render
> unto Cesar that which is Cesar's, and unto
> God that which is God's."

I totally agree that this is a famous saying. And maybe someone named Jesus said it. But maybe someone associated with the Nicene Council decided that hyping up the Jesus story with a positive message about obeying civil authorities would be just the thing to attribute to Jesus, despite the fact that Jesus himself never rendered a single drachma unto "Cesar". (Your Spanish is excellent!)

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Jesus was taken to Egypt only in Matthew. If you read Luke, the baby Jesus was taken to Jerusalem after the birth to be presented at the temple and then the family returned home to Nazareth and lived there. Just one of the many ways the gospels are inconsistent.

So...are we in favor of illegal immigration, or are we in favor of being a nation? whats the point of this article? Do you want open borders? Just be truthful on what the end goal is here.

transrebelwithclaws Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So...are we in favor of illegal immigration, or
> are we in favor of being a nation?

How about being a nation and being in favor of a reasonable, humane, workable immigration system?

Your false dichotomy above isn't, of course, the only option...

> whats the point
> of this article? Do you want open borders? Just be
> truthful on what the end goal is here.

The point of the article was to point out the hypocrisy of Ms. White. Which it did.

Totally agree. Not putting kids in cages and losing them and then expecting parents to pay for DNA tests in order to be reunited would be a nice start. Then they have to give up their quest to get asylum in return.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2018 04:40PM by bona dea.

Many of the people in question are seekng for asylum which is NOT illegal. We can oppose thisand other policies of the president and not want open borders

Well said. :)

Some animals mark their territory and then fight other animals over it. They’re not a nation. Humans and American human mark land and fight over it.

It’s what animals do.

Woof woof.

Everyone has a picture of the average refugee as a person who comes from a war-torn neighborhood and who only wants to survive amidst flying bullets and bad guys who are out to get them. I don't doubt that some refugees fit that description. I seriously doubt that everyone who makes these claims fits that description. Most of them don't. Sure, they're poor. They would probably rather drive a small car rather than to ride a bicycle or walk to work like they and all of their neighbors do in their home town or village. But the wrong question has been asked here.

If Jesus lied to immigration officials, claimed that his life was in danger when it wasn't, so that he could falsely Qualify for an immigration status that he wasn't really entitled to as a way to make more money and live the American dream, could he still be our savior?

If the power went out and Jesus was walking by a store with a broken window and everyone running out in the dark was carrying a TV or stereo, so Jesus went in and got himself a free TV too, could he still be our savior?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2018 11:53PM by azsteve.

Wow anybody, like anyone here posts their thoughts and expects others to not know what they're thinking? But don't read anything in to it that I did not write.

azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone has a picture of the average refugee as a
> person who comes from a war-torn neighborhood and
> who only wants to survive amidst flying bullets
> and bad guys who are out to get them.

No, actually, everyone *doesn't.*

Assuming "everyone" thinks like you do (or thinks like you think they do) is a very big mistake. It's always wrong.

A pretty significant non sequitur. . .

The topic was whether Jesus was an illegal immigrant. You twist the topic into a discussion of modern immigration and the degree to which today's immigrants are criminals. Jesus is an afterthought.

Again, that tells us more about your reverence for the state than it does about Jesus.

Let's get real here. This thread is about a liberal OP bashing a conservative position and anyone who agrees with the President. Jesus never was the topic. You and "anybody" use Jesus to spread your toxic world view with the pretense that you're not really breaking the board rules here. You tipped your hand when you attacked my post. Whatever you mean when you talk about "reverence for the state", it came from your own assumptions and fear of authority which has nothing to do with what I wrote.

There was some wisdom in what I wrote. The question was about whether or not Jesus could break the law of the land and still be a savior. To fully articulate the concept, you have to consider why he would break the law. Would he do it to save his or someone else's life (a noble cause that could justify anyone breaking the law), or if not would he do it for less noble reasons. Those who saw the hypocracy in the woman in the article couldn't stand seeing today's realities about the dark side of illegal immigration and how Jesus wasn't the real subject of the topic at all, thus spoiling their righteous condemnation of Trump's spiritual advisor. So they attack the poster with the descenting position.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2018 11:24PM by azsteve.

Religious leaders see Trump through the filter of their own beliefs. That is not anything Trump has done wrong. How can a group of people who have all left their church condemn a man for not being religious enough to suit them? What hypocrits! This thread was supposed to be about Jesus according to some people. Should we really believe that?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2018 11:42PM by azsteve.

We are criticizing him for being a hypocrite,not because he isnt religious.

I guess everyone who didn't vote for him needs to hate him for some reason. If you want to go on principal, you can always mail your tax reduction money to me. Is it hypocritical for those who didn't want him to be president to keep their tax reductions instead of donating them to various social programs and to those who are less fortunate? What would Jesus do?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2018 12:05AM by azsteve.

The few dollars I get is more than offset by higher gas prices and the expected hikes due to his trade war. I get a whopping $20.0 per month. Wow.
As for being a hypocrite, he pretends to be religious while committing serial adultery, lying, putting kids in cages and on and on. that meets my defintion

This is a curious thread.

Jesus was God, no? He was God before he came to earth and he will be God forever after. There is no human law that is superior to God; no civil law that can vitiate his divinity or whatever grace he decides to bestow on humanity.

Jesus was the God of the Old Testament, who violated laws right and left. He is the God who will come in blood and glory at the Second Coming, destroying countless humans both physically and spiritually. The laws of the countries that exist at that time will have no power over him nor even any conceivable right to power over him.

Which raises the question why people would ever suggest that his divinity and his ability to save could possibly be dependent on his adherence to human laws, whether just or unjust. That White or anyone else would consider civil law relevant to God's nature and power says more about those people and their bizarre reverence for the state than it does about Jesus.

White's partisans control the US government and, through it, the American people. Now they want that government to control God as well.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2018 01:26AM by Lot's Wife.

So we will add 'mass murderer' to the list of his crimes against humanity!

When Jesus was an infant both Judea and Egypt were Roman
provinces. So there was really no immigration involved.

Good point even if that incident probably didnt happen and was added to make Jesus similar to Moses. As I said above, this woman is.no theologian or even educated.

What concerns me more is this passage from the article:

"White, the leader of a Pentecostal church in Florida, is a long-time friend of Trump’s who has repeatedly touted the president as a highly religious person. “Our president 100 percent is a Christian who understands receiving faith by the grace of the lord, Jesus,”

Trump, religious? what is she smoking? And how convenient to believe in all that Grace, go and self indulge in Palm Beach (maro largo) away from the rift-raft and we'll all make it to the pearly gates! Thanks Jebuass!

I question if a person with the size of ego as Trump displays is capable of putting a god above himself. God would need to get in line and praise Trump.

OTOH, most believers believe in a god that suits their own views. So maybe he thinks he is God's special pet who can do whatever he wants with God's approval. Rules, morals and taxes are for little people!

I think personality types similar to Trump's personality might not be all that into god stuff. What he DOES understand is that having the masses believe in God is useful.

My view is he pretends to be religious to appeal to his base. He doesnt go to church and refers to Two Corintians and instead of taking communion he eats a cracker.He doesnt act like a Christian at all and he doesnt know the lingo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2018 06:48PM by bona dea.

Jesus was a homeless cult leader that broke all sorts of Jewish laws, including breaking the Sabbath, trespassing, stealing corn from farmers, vandalized and killed the tree that had no figs on it, broke into the temple and assaulted people, he desecrated Lazarus' grave and stole his corpse.

The man was sick!