In another thread, Lot’s Wife wrote about the threat of Mormon heterodoxy in the 1960s as leading toward church correlation. There’s been a couple of posts on this recently, so we many want to kick this around. (Sorry, BabS, for my smartass reply).

If you’re not familiar with the concept of heterodoxy, it means an idea that’s popular, but never officially becomes part of church doctrine, in fact, it actually becomes baggage. Here’s one that comes to mind for me, which ones stick out for?

We chose our parents in the preexistence.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2018 02:25PM by BYU Boner.

Saucie doesn’t believe me when I tell her that we pledged to meet here during our mortality after falling in love in the pre-existence! Why would I lie!!

Why indeed?

;)

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why indeed?
>
> ;)


Hey Lottie.... don't encourage him. ; )

I heard that, too—many of us had chosen our mates in the PE and had to find them in mortal life. Many unmarried LDS women jokingly would say, “My husband died in the pre-existence.”

Down Syndrome folks fought Satan valiantly in in the pre-existence, so God gave them Downs to protect them from Satan.

I heard something along those lines... basically that they had

already perfected themselves in the preexistance and the only

reason they came to earth was to get a body which was all they

needed to attain perfection.

Yup, heard that one, too. Wouldn't have remembered it if you hadn't mentioned it! Who knows where these ideas come from...

If you lose a baby here in mortality, you will get to raise him/her in the eternities

That one has some doctrinal basis. It was in one of prophet based P/RS manuals. Woodruff maybe? But then you get the infants on thrones quote too that poses some level of contradiction.

Good topic Boner. In Mormonism, I don't think there is a clear line between hetrodoxy and orthodoxy in the case of many popular beliefs. The church wants it that way, and profits from it. This way they can always declare any belief that becomes too politically incorrect, as not being docterine, while benefitting from that same belief in the meantime.

Currently, there is a church essay that referrs to blacks as being less valient in the pre-existance as only a theory that the church doesn't support. But for decades, Mormon missionaries taught that as docterine. It gave prejudiced Americans a church that was perfectly matched to their own prejudiced beliefs, for over a hundred years. Meanwhile a living Mormon prophet can go on TV and say "I don't know that we teach that" when asked if mortal men can become gods. But the church benefits as church members world-wide pay, pray, and obey the church in attempts to earn their own godhood.

Wouldn't it be nice to see the Mormon church put out an encyclopedia of docterines and then say "Here are our docterines. If it isn't written here then it isn't docterine. If it isn't written in here then it never will become docterine, because god doesn't change his mind on what he wants or expects of us". Before anyone says "yes, this sounds like the bible to me", we need something without the BS two-thousand year old history, useless babbling, and cryptic stories, preeching, and conflicting messages and accounts. Just a professionally written encyclopedia of only beliefs, based on the most modern version of English would do the job. Of course the church will bever box itself in this way. Hetrodoxy pays. It allows anyone to believe anything they want, and to attribute that belief to the church's beliefs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2018 03:44PM by azsteve.

Howdy AZSteve, I was thinking a lot of these relics were from the priesthood-ban and Saturday’s Warrior Age. Bro-hugs!

My nephew was born with a missing limb because he was born before his parents were sealed in the temple. Of course the rest of their children (11 total) were born perfect shoring up this belief. Perfect children go to parents who are sealed.

How about this one ...

Have a personal relationship with the Savior (Bruce McConkie loved that one!)

Heavenly Mother

Yes. Exactly.

And women's priesthood.

olderelder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heavenly Mother


https://www.lds.org/topics/mother-in-heaven?lang=eng

Almost anything by Joseph Fielding Smith, also Bruce McConkie, Cleon Skousen, Cain/Bigfoot; then all the the crazy local stuff like the Dream Mine. .

How about "free agency," which had to be reined in along with individual revelation? The Golden Thread idea that all religions had a divine element; polygamy. . . I think shrinking the freedom of teachers to innovate was ultimately as important as codifying the lesson manuals.

Part of it was definitely related to international expansion. The non-Christian missions needed really basic stuff about Jesus and the Bible. You couldn't have Buddhists reading about the Great Apostasy or the role of America in the restoration of the gospel, the Catholic Church as the "whore of all the earth," etc. So everything had to be sanitized.

But that was as much a tool in the hands of the authoritarians as it was about simplification. Lee and McConkie and Kimball and Packer and Hinckley wanted to eliminate the marginal stuff that local idiots would spout and ensure that only what emanated from SLC was orthodox.

It really did resemble what Stalin did when he composed the "definitive" summary of Leninism. It made Stalin the leader doctrinally and laid the foundation for his political tyranny.

There are many heavenly mothers.

We are in the world, but not of the world.

The unwritten policy of: "lying for the Lord."

We chose our spouse and children in the pre-existance.

We chose to come to earth at this time to prepare for Christ's return.

When blacks become righteous their skin will get lighter and lighter.

Years ago: never take the garment completely off. Take only half off to bathe. Leave it on for intimate relations. (They were made so that could be done.)
Wear it to give birth, and on and on and on.

Single members that never marry will be given a mate in the next life if they are worthy

Babies are often fussy in church because there is a full size spirit in that tiny body. (??)

And that full size spirit is fussy because it's reacting to the BS it's hearing.

I miss the talk about the Three Nephites. Those G.A.'s took all the magical fun out of Mormonism!

Here's what we're left with regarding Los Tres Nephites and John the Revelator:

"We don’t know anything more specific about the activities of these men. We know only that they have been transfigured so that they will not taste of death and that, whatever they are doing, it is for the purpose of bringing people to the Savior."

--https://www.lds.org/new-era/2017/11/to-the-point/are-john-the-beloved-and-the-three-nephites-actually-still-on-the-earth-if-so-what-are-they-doing?lang=eng

If these four men are so ghawd-darn special, and their purpose is "...bringing people to the savior...", what are they doing, driving buses to the base of one or another Christ on a Mountain display?

Hmmmmmm, if that’s their purpose, their doing a damn poor job!

I hear the Three Nephites still do occasional rock-and-roll tours.

I’d pay filthy lucre to see that!

Very, very few people know this: Two of the Three Nephites were/are in ABBA! True story! You can't get any more Nephitey than that!

ETA: And doesn't that make the wife-switching easier to understand?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2018 12:39AM by elderolddog.

For a smartass, you sometimes have valid points. This isn’t one of them. Simon and Garfunkel were two of the three, and Mrs. Robinson (in drag) rounded out the trio.

<sigh> Why must everything be a joke with you! Here I am trying to teach gospelly principles and you pull that crap from out'en your butt....

Now, you made the Boner cry BIG tears! I sent you your own topic my friend.

Yeah, well Saucie and I just called you and it went to VM!!! What the hell, man!!!

You guys disappoint me.

The correct answer is ZZ Top.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2018 12:57AM by Lot's Wife.

Yeah, them are some really really Nephite looking dudes!

I can't believe CNN hasn't covered this and done a big "Reveal".

Hard-hitting news provider that it is!

.. . When they aren't changing flat tires

Yup.

Or chasing Bigfoot away from David Patten.

It's been a few years since the vanishing Nephite hitchhiker told a friend of my uncle that they needed to get their food storage by April 6th or it would be too late.

Oh, here’s one to give women hope:

“In the Celestial Kink-dum, men get all the wives they want, but a woman gets to pick the guy she wants.”


Does that make sense mathematically?
But then, the kids ...
But,...

And the guy has to 'submit'?

kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a woman gets to pick the guy she wants.”


So, Brother Boner, where’d you go to school? What was your GPA?Oh, you didn’t serve a mission, hmmmmm, maybe we could work something out. Can I see the last five years of your income tax returns before you died? No, Boner, someone told you wrongly, there ARE diamonds in the Celestial Kingdom, BIG diamonds. BIG gods show their favorite wife just how favored they are with BIG diamonds.

Now, about that planet of yours, just exactly how close is it to Kolob? Is it the the best orbit? Do the other gods and their wives have bigger or smaller planets? Is there upscare flora and fauna? Just how many spirit children do you expect me to have? Oh, and I don’t do windows!

Boner quoted a goddess, who said,

> "Oh, and I don’t do windows!"

Lee Trevino, after a few years on the tour, purchased a magnificent home in a gated community, in the Dallas area. One morning he noticed some streaks on a window and got some Windex and paper towels, but discovered the streaks were on the outside. So he went out and did a wonderful job of cleaning that window, and felt a flush of pride.

As he was admiring his work, he heard the click-clack of high heels coming up his walkway. He turned around to see a stunningly beautiful rubia (blonde) walking toward him. "Excuse me," she said, "How much does the woman who lives here pay you to do the windows?" Being the mischevious Lamanite that he is, he responded, lowering his eyes and acting embarrassed, "Oh, she doesn't pay me money, she lets me sleep with her."

The woman was obviously shocked and she immediately turned and headed back to her Mercedes Benz. Lee giggled as he watched her get in her car and slam the door. But she only went about 40 feet before the car stopped and then started backing up. Mr. Trevino took off running...

Oh EOD,......and you too Boner, .....I’m layin here recouping from a hernia operation....you’re killin’ me man!!

The earth is hollow and the 12 Tribes are inside.

Christ was married to all those groupies hanging out at his tomb.

Resurrected beings don't have blood.

We resurrect with perfect bodies, except Christ who kept his nail holes. WTF.

The handcart reenactments are preparation for walking to Missouri

Christ will return to Missouri wearing red.

BKKKP will clean house when he gets to be prophet. (Oops)

It is remarkable how easily with Mormonism one slips from doctrine to farce and back again.

Every time I lusted after a MIA Maid or a Laurel, I was fornicating in my heart. But every time I lusted after a married woman, I was an adulterer.

Frankly, I never could distinguish between the two sins, even though I was taught that one was much greater than the other!

Especially after I confessed the fornication and all I got was six month til I could go on my mission. Given my thoughts about many married women in the arts (but not the sciences), why was I even allowed to be considered for a mission?

Here’s one:

“If you cuss, you’ll get warts on your tongue.”



Oh wait, that came from my mom.

Your mom was nicer than mine. She washed my mouth out with soap when I was 4 or 5, after saying damn.

Never mind she cussed like a sailor, in case she wondered who I learned it from. And that was a lesson in hypocrisy!

but I can't remember why. It wasn't a word. I probably sassed.

My dad cussed A LOT. All of us took a turn at cussing as little kids. No one ever got disciplined for doing so.

The washing mouth out is one of my favorite parts of "A Christmas Story."

Where are you, BYU Boner?

We miss you and hope you are well!

BYU Boner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> If you’re not familiar with the concept of
> heterodoxy, it means an idea that’s popular, but
> never officially becomes part of church doctrine,
> in fact, it actually becomes baggage. Here’s one
> that comes to mind for me, which ones stick out
> for?
>
> We chose our parents in the preexistence.


The line between Orthodoxy and Hetrodoxy is very blurred in MORmONISM.


At one point it was certainly as good as MORmON doctrine that any really good member of THE (MORmON) church loved the Movies "The Sound of Music" and "Fiddler on the Roof"


My super @$$ hole MORmON enforcement agent male parent certainly (CERTAINLY) believed that I had chosen him to be my parent in mortality, just as he certainly believed that he and my MORmON mother had selected each other as eternal companions in the premortal existence (WARNING: MORmON circular logic ahead) since they had been eternal companions.

That was hetrodoxy based on orthodoxy as good as orthodoxy in his MORmON mind.

Any way, back to my supposed premortal selection of my super @$$ hole MORmON male parent as my parent in mortality, that combined with the generally prescribed actual MORmON doctrine of killing or being able to kill dissenters at certain times (see the Book of MORmON, first four chapters, handling of Laban. see MORmON temple ceremony pre 1990 explicit death penalties for dissenters) supposedly gave my MORmON male parent the right to kill me as I did not live up to his expectations as his offspring in mortality. The fact that he was a CRAPPY excuse for a parent in any conventional sense is a NON issue in his MORmON mind, due to the "fact" that preserving THE standing of THE paramount (MORmON) gospel is far more important than any triviality like my expectations for a parent or my life in mortality.

All of that combined with the notion (personal hetrodoxy on his part) that a PROVEN abject willingness to dispatch offspring like some bothersome insect would make him superior to Abraham, as well as the doctrinal FACT (orthodoxy) that MORmON HF was perfectly willing to have his dearly beloved ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY PERFECT son brutally tortured to death (on a cross) in Mortality for THE grand gospel plan, as well as MORmON HF perfectly willingness to lose a third of his spirit children n 1 ers Combined with my criticism of his beloved MORmON religion, and BAMMMM!! suddenly there is a super MORmON @$$ hole absolutely longing and lusting for the chance to kill one of their adult offspring. .....(Hence a great deal of my sentiment that) MORmONISM IS MENTALL ILLNESS which is fact and reality beyond any orthodoxy or hetrodoxy.


Thank real goodness, in contrast to MORmON "goodness", for the law of land or I would have been mowed down by a blast from a 12 gauge, for my failure to live up to MORmON expectations both orthodox and what ever else, all contrived and much more highly prized and valued than lowly highly expendable me.

The MORmON doctrinal notion that I or anyone else actually chose in to be subjected to the UGLY conditions of mortality in some prior state of existence is currently foreign and HIGHLY OFFENSIVE to me, mostly because I see that notion as a basis for MORmONISM'S assumed license to subject me to ANYTHING that MORmON leaders feel like as MORmON leaders (supposedly) act as God representation in this life.

GENERALLY IF I find out that I really did choose this troubling crap hole existence of mortality for myself at some earlier point in my existence, for whatever reason, then I will be HIGHLY inclined to kick my own ass over that matter.

SPECIFICALLY I have ZERO interest in ever having any further association with the POS that I ended up with as my male parent in mortality.