I mean angel Moroni... Moron-I buried golden plates. I couldn't contain my laughter hearing Moron was pronounced mōr´un. Like TBMs are all a bunch of mōr´uns

Did Old Jo know this was a scam from the get-go and later end up believing his own garbage? What do you think?

No, that was Scientology. And it was more of a bet, really...maybe, anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversies#L._Ron_Hubbard_and_starting_a_religion_for_money

But, yeah -- Joe knew it was a scam. Personally, I think he kind of fell into the religion business.

He had been pulling his treasure-hunting scams for a long time, but he hadn't made much money at it, and it had gotten him thrown in jail at least once. When he came up with the idea to claim he'd found "gold plates," that his treasure hunting had finally paid off, I'm not sure he knew where exactly he was going to go with that. Then Harris turned out to be so damn gullible, Smith thought there might really be something to this religion thing. Then Cowdery and Rigdon got involved -- one smarter and more educated than Smith, the other more radically/nuttily religious, and they had themselves a gang that could fleece the gullible in several states. So they did.

And no, I don't think he ever actually believed his own garbage. The attempts (often successful) later on to get women to sleep with him by claiming angelic visions clearly show he was aware of his fraud, and didn't believe any of it, but knew how to lie to get what he wanted.

still thinks JS believed it all. His old boyfriend and I had a big argument with him about it and he just isn't convinced. I mean, really???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2018 11:15AM by cl2.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
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> Personally, I think he kind of fell into the religion
> business.

I think JS went to tent revivals, saw how preachers were respected and adored and made money, and wanted some of that. Preachers were the rock stars of the day. He could rise from near outcast status, hobnob with the most respected citizens and have young women swoon over him -- and all he had to do was TALK. No manual labor. No running around the countryside at night pretending to hunt treasure.

JS was savvy enough to know he needed a hook, something to separate him from the crowded field of preachers, something to build his reputation. Ah-ha! Heavenly visitors! New revelations! New scriptures! Not the same old same old.

I think Rigdon might have been the driving force behind the "pious fraud" of the BoM; if you're a preacher, why not preach from your bible fan-fiction?

It started with young Joseph entertaining his family with long yarns about ancient Americans. When he married Emma Hale, he took up the family business of grifting.

It was a get rich quick scheme with very little overhead for a startup company.

All of the founders and original members were from the same treasure digging club. Turns out the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

That's just anti-Mormon lies according to my Mormon acquaintances; and who would know more about Mormon history than Mormons...right?

"Would you go to a Chevy dealer if you wanted the truth about Fords? No, you would go to a Ford dealer because he would know the most about Fords. Duh."

And we can trust that no car dealer would ever have any reason to dismiss anything that reflects poorly on their cars. It's a wonder that websites like CarFax and AutoCheck ever came into existence.

The joke that is TSCC did not stop with how it started.

;)

Mormonism is one of those jokes where the point of the joke is to
not admit it's a joke.

Well that's not very funny...:(

TSCC a joke? No, it was a well-greased con-job and here are the details........

Joe, the Joe who was allergic to hard farm labor of any kind, was addicted to the easy buck. He found, with the adoration and encouragement of a doting Mom, that he had the gift of gab by which he could fool others and was also very special and chosen in the eyes of God (also from his Mom's lips).

One thing led to another and soon Joey was on to something big. He could bring in the "fools" and their money. you know, like gullible Martin Harris, and so he was off and running. He literally ran off and eloped with a beautiful girl, even talked his way out of the outs with her Daddy promising to give up his magical pursuits (which he did not). Then he started gathering his family members and newly met friends to his side and indoctrinated them all into his plan.

Still going strong with his scheming and lying, he soon added preying on young, naive, believing girls and even married women with husbands still around. Polygamy he called it, which he said was, of course, straight from heaven to him by revelation.

He basked in this con until the day he met his match in a shoot-out where. before dying, he took took out two lives. No, a martyr he was not!

His "lowly" aim "only" was to be prophet, priest and king, placing himself on the same rung of the ladder with the other person people still, to this day, use that title to describe - Jesus of Nazareth.

I say again that to me he was not a joke nor did he start his con as a joke. He instead was a person to be extremely wary of and a person better to plain avoid at all costs because you just might loose your property, your lovely daughter, and your reputation. And, most likely, all three.

Joseph stopped at nothing - not murder, not planning to be president of the United States, and not even his top grand idea to be the King of the Kingdom of God on the Earth.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2018 04:05PM by presleynfactsrock.

So he died of natural causes?

Yep, you might say he died of natural causes as his actions brought on the "natural" cause that he died from......angry bullets that were shot because people detested and despised him for, hmmm, let's name just a few of their reasons:

1. Rape and incest of their daughters and wives.

2. Leaving people broke, homeless, and property-less after investing in Joseph's bogus bank, along with countless other times he demanded their money, time, and support only to loose everything.

3. Promising that the United Order was from God and that all they had to do was give everything they had and life would be heavenly and wonderful beyond believing once it was up and going. (or not)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2018 02:29AM by presleynfactsrock.

I’d go with 1. Just think of how many women’s virtue was saved that day.

There was also the problem of Joe setting himself up as king and actually being a de facto king due to the Mormon voting bloc. Notice that the Mormons were not above pursuing frontier justice when it suited them. The same frontier justice that Joe had flying at him that fateful day.

It’s possible that Masons were following through on their ceremonial death oaths. But he had plenty of enemies.

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
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> I’d go with 1. Just think of how many women’s
> virtue was saved that day.

Brilliant :)

Agree :)

Saved on the tar and feather too.

presleynfactsrock Wrote:
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> Agree :)
>
> Saved on the tar and feather too.

that was tried at least once, Joe failed to get the message.

so then Joe experience his best and only real revelation ever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQrgLz0tpVA

LadyKorihor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I mean angel Moroni... Moron-I buried golden
> plates. I couldn't contain my laughter hearing
> Moron was pronounced mōr´un. Like TBMs are all a
> bunch of mōr´uns
>
> Did Old Jo know this was a scam from the get-go
> and later end up believing his own garbage? What
> do you think?

No, it evolved into one.

MORmONISM is certainly an UTTER mockery of Christianity

"So why dont we call ourselves MORONS ???"

"it is a serious religion"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vICq4gGFfY

It will end as one too.

IMO, TSCC started one of two ways: Either JS didn't see anything and made it all up, or...Stan and his cohorts appeared to him and others as angels of light. At the Kirtland temple dedication, a lot of people reported seeing "angels" walking on the temple's roof, and inside the temple. They saw "Jesus" in the temple on a gold path. Therefore, my assumption is that both of the two possibilities occurred, plus JS making up the Book of Mormon as he went along.