It was a second interview, I had the job right in my hand and I (stupidly) mentioned something that had to do with girls camp. He asked me point blank if I am a Mormon. (I resigned some years ago) I stammered.... and said "Well, I was baptized at 8 and married in the temple...." And he said "But you're not practicing?" And I said no. I feel so bad and stupid and I really need a job!

Ok, I think the question was illegal to ask you but I know how these things work. Especially in UT.

gemini Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, I think the question was illegal to ask you
> but I know how these things work. Especially in
> UT.

Well...

No questions are illegal. It is legal to ask people you're interviewing anything you want to ask. Religion, national origin, whatever -- no illegal questions.

What's illegal is to discriminate based on certain "protected" categories, such as religion, national origin, age, etc. So to avoid any possibility of being sued for such discrimination, companies tell their employees NOT to ask about those things. Not because it's illegal to ask them (it's not), but because if you ask those things and don't hire somebody, they might just sue you for discrimination.

Of course, to successfully sue for discrimination, the not-hired person would have to show that the question you were asked was the basis for not hiring you. Which isn't always that easy. The upside, for not-hired people suing, is that to avoid "this company discriminates!" publicity, many companies will simply settle, pay the suing person some money, and forbid them from discussing it publicly. That's cheaper than a lawsuit defense anyway (usually).

But, anyway...there aren't any illegal questions. :)

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-
>
> No questions are illegal. It is legal to ask
> people you're interviewing anything you want to
> ask. Religion, national origin, whatever -- no
> illegal questions.
>

That's highly dubious at the very least. If a prospective employer is allowed to ask, what prevents him from discriminating on the basis of employement, then saying that it was for other reasons that the applicant was not hired? In terms of fair hiring practice, some questions are illegal.

A prospective employee can run the risk of winning the battle but losing the war. It's wise to weigh potential risks against
benefits. The line of questioning may have been benign and incidental in OP's particular case. The interviewer opened a can of worms in asking the question; if he doesn't hire OP, it's something that cn be used against him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2018 08:21AM by scmd1.

scmd1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's highly dubious at the very least.

But factual nonetheless.

> If a
> prospective employer is allowed to ask, what
> prevents him from discriminating on the basis of
> employement, then saying that it was for other
> reasons that the applicant was not hired? In terms
> of fair hiring practice, some questions are
> illegal.

No questions are illegal. What prevents them from discriminating is the threat of government sanctions and/or civil lawsuits. Which is why not asking such questions is *policy* at most companies. But asking them is NOT illegal.

You'll find a number of websites online that -- incorrectly -- say such questions are illegal. They are not. The EEOC spells out explicitly what's illegal in hiring practices, and nowhere does it say any questions are illegal to ask.

From the horse's mouth:

"Although state and federal equal opportunity laws do not clearly forbid employers from making pre-employment inquiries that relate to, or disproportionately screen out members based on race, color, sex, national origin, religion, or age, such inquiries may be used as evidence of an employer's intent to discriminate unless the questions asked can be justified by some business purpose."


https://www1.eeoc.gov//laws/practices/index.cfm?renderforprint=1

(I've been interviewing and hiring for over 30 years, and have had to keep up with the law. One of our attorneys put it this way: "It's not illegal to ask anyone anything. It is, however, patently stupid to do so.")

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of our attorneys put it this way: "It's not
> illegal to ask anyone anything. It is, however,
> patently stupid to do so."

Why do you use a patent attorney in your (in)Human Resources Department? :<)

He multitasks :)

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/job-interview-questions-that-are-illegal-1918488

Age.
Race, ethnicity, or color.
Gender or sex.
Country of national origin or birthplace.
Religion.
Disability.
Marital or family status or pregnancy.

As I pointed out above, lots of web sites (and even some attorneys) get this wrong. The questions *aren't* illegal. As per the EEOC, the government agency that enforces the law in such cases. See above.

In fact, if you actually read the link you posted, you'll notice it says this:

"Illegal interview questions, while not illegal in the strictest sense of the word, have so much potential to make your company liable in a discrimination lawsuit, that they might as well be illegal."

Might as well be is not the same as "they're illegal."
They're not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2018 09:50AM by ificouldhietokolob.

It isn't really illegal to yell "fire!" in a crowded theater either.

Although if a panic ensues you could be prosecuted for incitement or disorderly conduct.

Also...Driving IS a right, not a privilege. But, like any right, the government has the power to regulate it, license it, etc. for safety purposes.

It might not matter if they're open minded. He was willing to hire you when he thought you weren't a mormon, right?

He may not be thinking badly of you. Send a nice thank-you card for the interview. That shows that you are classy and polite. I’ve gotten every job where I’ve done that—-even when I thought I blew it.

I love the way Kathleen thinks. I really do.

Survival is the First Sacrament.

Learn to lie.

The christian ghawd doesn't care if you lie!! The 10 Commandments specifically rule out murder, adultery, and stealing. But when ghawd got to 'lying', he suddenly got mealy-mouthed! He did not say, "thou shalt not lie!"

All he said was, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against they neighbor." To my way of thinking, this means that we are honest and fair-dealing with our neighbors, i.e., our tribe. But anyone who is not a neighbor, lying, by commission or omission, is perfectly acceptable.

The history of the church has tons of examples. Just look at the 1890 Manifesto, which "ended" polygamy. The church says so: (well, not really):

"In 1890, President Wilford Woodruff issued the Manifesto, which led to the end of plural marriage in the Church."

https://www.lds.org/topics/the-manifesto-and-the-end-of-plural-marriage?lang=eng

"...which led to the end of plural marriage..." That's how they can deny that this statement of theirs is a lie. It was a minor pit stop on the way to the end of TSCC practicing polygamy.

Later the essay says, "Under exceptional circumstances, a smaller number of new plural marriages were performed in the United States between 1890 and 1904, though whether the marriages were authorized to have been performed within the states is unclear."

Anyway, my point is that lying for the lord is not only acceptable but often seen as a duty.

So learn to lie!

Chalk it up to experience.

Learn from your mistakes. You'll be more careful next time not to disclose too much. It isn't their business anyway. If you feel/perceive you weren't given the job because of religious discrimination, it could be the basis for filing an EEO complaint with the federal government, or your state's human rights agency, if your state has one.

You still don't know the outcome of your interview. Send that thank-you note, like Kathleen suggested.

Your prospective employer might view this as a plus. In my experience, Mormons are not trustworthy. Lying is a way of life for them. Their first priority is to their cult. The cult takes away a lot of their focus and energy, which could be put into their career. Non-Mormon women usually stay on the job longer than Mormon women, as there isn't that constant cult pressure to NOT be a working woman. Single non-mormon women usually don't take as much maternity leave. Mormons carry along with them too much drama, gossip, manipulation, back-biting, lying, competition, and negativity around the office. They aren't good at working as a team.

I won't hire Mormons. (I never openly say that to anyone, but I'm anonymous on RFM).

I won't vote for Mormons, either.

I hand-delivered the letter.







AND I forgot to sign it.

I suck.

Note though that if he is active TBM, and you came out as an ex-Mo, he is going to naturally view you with disdain, silent contempt, and skepticism. By virtue of your no longer buying into the BS. He isn't going to trust you, according to his code of ethics (the Mormon way..)

He will likely rather hire a never Mo than an ex-Mo, IF his testimony is strong. If it is weak and considering leaving himself, then he may view you with more respect and esteem. It's how the cookie crumbles.

Keep religion out of the job at all times is what I have learned.

Live and learn. If he's Mormon, it might be better if you don't work for him anyway. And if he's not Mormon, but merely familiar with the religion and culture, what you said might be a plus.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Live and learn. If he's Mormon, it might be better
> if you don't work for him anyway. And if he's not
> Mormon, but merely familiar with the religion and
> culture, what you said might be a plus.


If he picked up on a reference as obscure as something about girls' camp, odds are that he's either Mormon or former Mormon.

Please let us know what happens.

This doesn't sound like a good working situation, but if you seriously need the job, that's small consolation.

Good luck.

Might work in your favor. You'll become his "reactivation project".

Great point.

I'll let you preach to me as long as you want as long as you pick up the bar tab.

I start on Monday! Praise Joseph Smith! (j/k)

Yay, Melanie! Hopefully that's the end of any religious discussion. Good luck!

I'm very happy for you!

Congratulations, Melanie.

I think it was the lack of signature on the thank-you card: it showed that you didn't really need the job. That confidence was probably very attractive!

Seriously, you are probably just a great candidate.

If the interviewer is TBM: "But you're not practicing?"

Answer: "I'm not active right now."


If the interviewer is ex-Mormon: "But you're not practicing?"

Answer: "Hell, no!"

You regretted your answer. Your interviewer may have been regretting his question. Especially since this took place outside of Utah. Can you imagine the pickle he might be in if others in the company heard about this interview.

If this were in my company in th SF Bay Area, he would not want it known that he asked a direct religion question in a job interview.

Congratulations! I, for one, thought you might be worried for nothing. But job interviews sure are nerve wracking!

Great News

Congratulations!

You might have a few light generic one-liners ready in case this comes up again.

You are left to wonder what the thoughts are of the interviewer.

To me, if he was hard core Mormon, he would have said, "So you're not active" instead of using the word practicing.

It's a mixed bag. Mormons can be very good worker bees. Inactive ones can be more willing to put work needs before religious rules.

Various coworkers have tried to figure out if I was Mormon at work. I would say things like "My family WAS from that culture" which would leave them wondering. I went a LONG time without letting them know until I figured out who was who and what their views were.

Good luck. Well done.

Congratulations....

I hoped you were worrying about nothing....

About 20 years ago when I was being interviewed for a job, BYU was on my application.....I graduated from there.

The owner/boss/interviewer noticed & said he'd gone to BYU too.
I immediately thought....oh no.
That's it. I won't get this job.

But he went on to say he got a scholarship to BYU but wasn't Mormon. And he was only there a short time.

So I was able to say I was raised Mormon but not active.

I as hired.

So what's my point? You never know for sure how things will turn out until it happens.

Good Luck
I hope you like your new job.
KJ

I wonder if he realized after the interview that he made a mistake and decided he better offer you the job or you might go to the EEOC or something?

Yay! Thanks for reporting back and letting us know.

I have a sign posted in our office: "No religion or politics in the workplace." That's the best way to go.

You've learned a lesson with this (Now I sound like a real "Mother Who Knows", ugh.) Learn some dialogs to help you change the subject away from religion and politics, or just ignore it. Better yet, just laugh it off.

I worked around a devout Christian for about 4 years, and never knew it until much later, as, against type, he never brought it up.



Or, perhaps he realized I would not be receptive to faith-talk?



Oh - congrats to Melanie.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2018 11:02AM by 3X.

That question should never be asked in a job interview.

Here in my part of Florida where everyone is Republican and Christian a teacher that had just moved to the area applied for a teaching position at one of the local schools and the FIRST question the interviewer asked her was, "What church do y'all go to?"

Yeah, I suspect he was thinking "thank god she is not one of those tbm nut jobs!"

(Kidding of course; but I hope this is all behind you and you thrive in your new position!)