The main problem is the species Homo sapiens.

We are like a cancer on the planet. As the philosopher/atheist Nietzsche stated, a pox on the earth. We scar the earth with millions (billions?) of miles roads, among other things, killing countless animals just trying to survive. Planes criss cross the skies. Boats disturb the serenity of the oceans. Plastic debris every where. We build mines for the material for much of our lives, such as cars, cell phones, air conditioners, concrete, etc. Power lines criss cross the earth. We take water from its natural source and redirect it everywhere. We are impotent nobodies without our bazillion sources of electric power. When 5G wireless is implemented the amount of cell towers will increase by 100 times. A solar coronal mass ejection, frying much of our electric "necessities", can't come soon enough. Space is polluted with satellites and thousands of pieces of debris. Even without religion cultural, economic, "racial", sexual differences etc. would be the cause of great conflict.

The earth would work perfectly without us.

Religion is trivial nothingness compared to the problem of Homo sapiens.

I used to ponder the likelihood of A-super-I considering "Meat Bags" (humans) to be a pox on the Universe, and that the only reason anyone would visit the earth was to spray for vermin (again, humans).

But now I don't think that way so much. Humans are a pain in the butt, and almost always way too self-absorbed, and heedless of consequences, but once we start licensing reproduction, we'll get better.

"Meat bags?"

I prefer "ugly bags of mostly water." 'Tis more accurate, surely!

You'll fall in love with "meat bags" after hearing Bender B. Rodriquez say it a few times.

From 0.45. . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paH97dYR6Lg

Data confirms its accuracy. So there.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2018 01:28PM by Lot's Wife.

"There are more truths than there are questions to be answered or issues to be resolved. And from whence spring these truths? From the same human mind that asks to know."

--Judic West, Vicar of Lyme-on-Potash, Sussex.


Plus proving my meat bag pudding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-1ry9zMi4o

That is an awesome quote! I just watched that Star Trek The Next Generation episode.

:)

Aww Star Trek fan.

Mormonism & other cult-like organizations in particular.

No accountability, no thinking that puts others on an equal footing/status...

Jacko Mo Mo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The earth would work perfectly without us.
>
> Religion is trivial nothingness compared to the
> problem of Homo sapiens.

I've been thinking about this for a long time (most of my life, because of the Vedanta/Hinduism I was raised in), and I still don't have any insight.

As a species, we have done so much good...and so much of the opposite.

I don't know why we have evolved as we have (with all our countless aspects, including all of the positive and all of the negative--some probably predictable from the point of view of a sufficiently more-highly-developed species [according to Clarke's Third Law, if I am remembering correctly], though most of them not predictable at all, so far as I am able to reason).

Parts of the broad topic of "religion" (includes tribal religions worldwide, and all religions of any kind throughout history) are attempts to make sense of what we cannot yet understand, and at least in part, some of these appear to have foreshadowed at least some of our most difficult-to-understand scientific concepts and theories. (I am thinking of the Rig Veda here...written at least 4,000 years ago, but plainly describing atomic weapons and flying aircraft.)

And yet, even in First World countries, even in countries extremely proud of their Abrahamic religious roots, we continue to grapple, often with great and intentional cruelty, with the most basic of behavioral norms.

I dunno any answers, but I continue to ponder the questions, and behind those questions, whatever scientific fact and actual truth might exist.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2018 12:42AM by Tevai.

Jacko Mo Mo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> We are like a cancer on the planet. As the
> philosopher/atheist Nietzsche stated, a pox on the
> earth.

You Jacko are the original and boring Luddite of today.

Luddite
noun UK ​ usually disapproving
a person who is opposed to the introduction of new working methods, especially new machines.

Religion is not "trivial nothingness".

Thanks for defining Luddite! We technophobes wouldn't have known it.

Question: who said, "Christians are targeted for drowning in wells dug by tireless Pharisees?"

'Taint who everyone thinks!

Lot's Wife asks:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Question: who said, "Christians are targeted for
> drowning in wells dug by tireless Pharisees?

I dunno. But Russian writer Boris Pasternak said "The Human Race drowns in the stench of the Pharisee."

Is that another translation of Pasternak's observation?

This ancient P-gang is most certainly tireless.

So, dear Wife of Lot... Please answer your question to us. Who wrote the quote that we Christians must be laid low by drowning in digger Pharisee wells?

It was sort of a trick question.

It came from an old post of yours, attributed to the great Russian author. It seems like something Pasternak would write but, curious feline that I am, I couldn't track it down.

If a luddite is not having an insatiable desire to buy into the latest consumer electronics, then I'm guilty.

FYI, I work in applied mathematics for Air Force space command, creating and maintaining digital models to deconflict satellite orbits.

Some of the responses to this thread reiterates what a waste most of social media is. I haven't visited this site in years, doubt I'll ever visit again.

Thank you.

So you are saying that you want to live off the grid, or like the Amish? By all means, have at it. No one here will stop you.

>>"We are...killing countless animals just trying to survive."

We are animals just trying to survive -- and doing a rather good job of it. I'm not going to get down on my own species just because you are having a bad day. Yes, of course the Earth could get along just fine without us (it already has.) But once our species establishes permanent, self-sustaining colonies off-planet (in space, on the Moon, on Mars, etc.) we will have pretty much guaranteed our survival.

Do I really need to point out that many of the animals we kill to survive *also* kill other animals (and other living things) to survive?

Earth once had a trilobite infestation. She took care of that too.

What I see is things are changing. They just aren’t getting better fast enough to suit your taste. Maybe the point is Earth is what we make it. What if the kids get it?

http://assets.amuniversal.com/27f9c56065bc013642be005056a9545d

You're-welcome-ly yrs,

S

My religion is LIFE. I'm taking it for a ride!

Other people are the problem, as am I.

From birth to death to life, I won't die.

I worship how, whom, if and what I May

It's free... So I don't have to Pay.

Politics and Religion can't get in my way.

It's how I work from night today!

Sorry you see it that way.

I guess I am starting to be comfortable with who snd what I am.

Eat meat, sure. Cause pollution, yep.

I am just a semi- conscious being who did not come into earthly existence by choice, no matter what the LDS church teaches. As such, I am doing the best I can to fit into the universe in a harmonoius way. But, I am what I am.

I try not to be wasteful or intentionally destructive because it makes sense to me to protect and preserve what keeps me alive.

I look forward with curiosity to the future, although I have a suspicion that it may not end well. Still, I am alive today and I enjoy many aspects of humanity, even though we can be difficult.

Good luck.

The earth is here and it's doing quite well. If anything is true we can support many more billions on this planet than we currently are. I've been watching a documentary on Israel and the wonderful accomplishments the Jews have made in 70 years. Much of their water is coming straight out of the ocean, they've developed vegetables that can be irrigated with salt water, they have wonderful fields all over previous waste land deserts, solar energy is improving.

Israel is an absolutely waste land yet the average monthly sallary is $4000 a month for a family. There is sooo much potential on this planet.

The trouble with these doomsday folks is that they aren't being honest. They aren't giving up their luxuries, I don't see anyone natavist environmentalist going to go live in a cave and eat spiders all day. Yet we are suppose to buy into the hype, buy their books, support their silly ideas, wink when our taxpayer dollars go to fund their hair-brain projects.

It's all about power and politics.

With all due respect, I think you'll change your opinion once you do some growing up. Humans are amazing crestures.

What good is a planet without humans? Who would enjoy it? Everything we do is perfectly natural. 99.99% of species on this planet have gone extinct and with no intervention from humans.

We're not a threat to the planet. We're the planet's children. We came FROM the earth. NATURALLY. We are nature, and we're a particularly complex window through which nature can see itself.

Do we do damage to the planet? Sure, but no more damage than a fetus does to its mother before it's born.

Eventually this solar system will be kaput, earth will be destroyed, abd we will likely be the coolest thing that ever happened here.

DON'T PANIC

Jacki Mo Mo has a sick mind to see the world this way. It's a guilt-ridden way of feeling bad, just for being born and having any kind of life afterward. The only cure to the so-called malady would be genocide. You might want to rethink this Jacki.

I disagree with you. I don't see it as any more sick than hopeless optimism in human progress or religious enlightenment.

It is a fatalistic take but an understandable and sane one in my opinion.

Either with or without religion, optimism is not hopeless. Wishing for a coronal mass ejection to take us or our critical infrastructure out is morbid. How dare the OP sit in the comfort of their home and belch-out such morbid crap over the very internet and infrastructure that they disparage. This person should be living in a cave, hunting for their own food, and then die if they aren't successful enough living that way. The OP should walk his or her own talk, not pollute the world with a grim world-view as gratitude to past generations for creating this society that makes their very life here both a possibility to begin with, a most hospitable place for our lives.

There is always a Darwin award just around the corner for those who don't quite have a grip on their own realities. There are many different ways in which the OP could apply for that award.... and yet he or she still is, yearning for the benefits of such a reward, while refusing to take the steps necessary to attain it for themselves. Even when optimism is bleak or non-existant, here is Jackie, clinging to the very thing that he or she disparages. The Point is not to aspire to winning such an award. How about overcoming the mental illness and joining the rest of us? Enjoy life! Feel gratitude. Feel pride in your own existance and that of others of your kind who you share the planet with. If you can't do that, then get off your ass and risk that life you claim has no right to be here (assuming you are a home-sapien),for your own betterment and for the betterment of the world you live in. If you can't do either, quit belly-aching. You have no credibality. The planet will still be here, alive and well, long after you and I are gone.



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2018 11:26AM by azsteve.

azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about overcoming the mental
> illness and joining the rest of us? Enjoy life!

How about not disparaging them as mentally ill?

Just because someone complains about Welfare and yet uses it doesn't mean they are mentally ill.

To disparage such people is one of the reasons we are such a "crazy" species on this planet in my opinion.

We do what we do and we think what we think. We are freed from survivalist behaviors and can choose what to think about anything as a result. If we choose to look upon ours or the human condition with contempt calling out people as mentally ill is super offensive to me. They aren't mentally ill in their opinions and just because their behaviors don't match their thoughts won't make them so either.

We all do this sanely when we lie, cheat, steal, murder, etc. and proving we do these things because of mental illness is very hard because sanity has as much a darkness as a lighter side.

There is a difference between being a-moral and being immoral. The a-moral position says "there are no laws, I do what I do without regard to the rest of society and human kind". The immoral person says "there are laws and I choose to break them". To be a law unto yourself without trepidation or empathy for others is a-moral. Our connection to others in this world is a lifeline to our own future existence and prosperity. There is hope for the immoral person because they feel a healthy form of shame which leads to reform. In the meantime, they do not announce their disdain for our entire species. The a-moral person is disconnected and on the verge of death because reality can become difficult to define when you're alone in the universe. Mental illness doesn't need to be a disparaging term. An a-moral person is disconnected and mentally I'll. We are a socially connected species by nature. At best, the a-moral person is a coward, fearful of their own destiny and resentful of anyone with a purpose. At worst, they create atrocities. However terribly a moral or immoral person may fail, they try to better themselves and they want better things for themselves and others.

So Jackie has a choice: get some mental health treatment or remain disconnected and alone, disparaging our whole species. I was wounded mentally quite badly by the mormon cult. I was very alone and disconnected from everyone for several years. Even at your lowest point, you can't blame our whole species and drop out of a sane reality. There's only one way to go. Start building healthy relationships. Find others to love. The church may smack you down but the rest of the world is capable of pulling you back up if you'll let it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2018 11:52PM by azsteve.

"An a-moral person is disconnected and mentally I'll."

This made me literally shudder. You are two steps from concentration camps called mental institutions for people with anti-social ideas/ideals.

Is there not a lack of consonance between your feelings about amorality/insanity in general and your application of such principles to politics?

The roots of tyranny, political or religious, lie in the ability to condemn one's opponents as amoral or insane or inhuman or godess while behaving the same way oneself. I am not saying you personally are doing that, but you are implicitly excusing such behavior.

That is frightening.

azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Either with or without religion, optimism is not
> hopeless. Wishing for a coronal mass ejection to
> take us or our critical infrastructure out is
> morbid.



> How dare the OP sit in the comfort of
> their home and belch-out such morbid crap over the
> very internet and infrastructure that they
> disparage.

Irony spotted /noted !!!!

That kinda makes me glad I’m not getting my own planet.

lol!

Off Topic here but I am of the opinion that it is important to be agreeable in our discussions even when we disagree. Harsh (mean spirited) criticism of others comments or views, even when it may seem warranted is not beneficial to our discussions.

I have several criticisms with the forums policies. The first is there allowance of the use of pejoratives like moron, idiot, stupid, mentally ill, etc. etc.. I would recommend giving strikes and then banning repeated offenders.

The second is not allowing all points of view so long they are offered respectfully. We are adults here and should be able to handle exposure to the opinions of those who differ from our own. If a particular discussion or topic triggers someone they are free to pass over and go on to the next topic. I know of few good reasons for deleting comments so long as they are offered respectfully.

So how does someone's opinion that we are a cancer on the planet, help anyone to heal here? You have to point that stuff out for what it really is. When someone else here says the words 'mental illness' is offensive to them in response, you've got to point that out as unhealthy too. While they talk about their desire to see the destruction of our species and want to glamorize darkness, someone needs to tell them to get a grip on reality (or maybe just to grow up). If that offends some people, that's their problem. Words have power. If the coronal mass ejection only hits Jacko's house, I don't have a problem with it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2018 12:09AM by azsteve.

azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the coronal mass ejection only hits
> Jacko's house, I don't have a problem with it.


And anyone else you deem amoral?

Gosh... OP you want some crackers and cheese with that whine? Your hypothesis is a little bizarre. But, it's just your opinion.

This is life, such as it is.

So now he is taking his marbles and going home. OK. Nice chat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2018 12:20AM by SusieQ#1.

I have always agreed with much of what you say and enjoy your thoughtful input in these discussions azsteve. I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this one.

"We are a cancer" wasn't a personal attack on anyone in particular. To use an old cliche, perhaps we can learn to take some of these things with a grain of salt.

I appreciate your respectful response here Felix. My response wasn't an attack on you personally. We can agree to disagree. Yeah, we may end up using up the planet some day. But we do our best to live a better life and no one seems to be offering any viable solutions, only disparagements and depressing wishes for it to all end. Some people want to ban the use of drinking straws to solve the problem while often the same people want to legalize and fund providing syringes to poor people for illegal drug use. Right now, one of their greatest fears for some people is that Roe vs Wade will be overturned. Why not if the world is going to hell anyway (not)? There are just better ways to see the world.

We can take it with a grain of salt on one hand. On the other hand, it's disappointing to see some of the cry-babies here who would rather disparage literally everything and everyone (as the OP did here), rather than choosing to create their own happiness, given the abundance easily available to them. Elder Berry even said "we are free from our survivalist behaviors and can choose to think what we want about anything as a result", in support of the OP. So why choose morbid thoughts by choice, when we get to choose anything we want?



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2018 01:22AM by azsteve.

OP, if you have not read this, I think it will amuse you: Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe by Douglas Adams.
All books in the short series are great. Don't settle for the movie.

It left me laughing at the absurdity of it all and amazed that we are here!

I actually agree with the OP, Jacko Mo Mo. And, no, I am not mentally off-kilter. If anything, with our human ability to reason, it would be mentally off to not recognise that humans are an out-of-control parasite destroying other species and endangering their host.

Yes, all life is parasitic, however, Nature has a way of balancing life into viable ecosystems. Until modern humans evolved, Nature has not had to deal with a species that can reason and so completely manipulate their environment - thus practically insuring their own survival and dominance. It is both, a-moral and immoral - the height of arrogance - "What good is a planet without humans. Who would enjoy it?" - to think that we are the only species that matter, and that our actions, as the apex, dominate species, have no consequences.

To think is good in my opinion but to think excluding all other life in the thinking is not good.

We are a part of something bigger than ourselves individually and collectively and no I don't believe it is deity.

No one needs to be ashamed of being born into humanity. That's what we are and that's what we'll continue to be. That isn't saying we are the only species that matters. It is saying that we do matter, however. We need to accept that idea because it's real and good.

"The first is easy for many: accept the inferno and become such a part of it that you can no longer see it."

It's not shame, it's disappointment, vexation, and finally disheartenment. Our species has the intelligence and capacity to stop the destruction we inflict on other life forms and on our earth.... but we choose not to. No, rather we accept our destructive behavior because "that's what we are" so we deem it "real and good."

>No one needs to be ashamed >of being born into >humanity. That's what we >are and that's what we'll >continue to be.

By this same reasoning you must then accept as "real and good" the full range of human behavior including the harm and destruction humans inflict on their own species - wars, murders, rapes...etc...etc..etc..

After all...that's just who we are!

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one needs to be ashamed of being born into
> humanity.

They don't need to be called insane if they are.

Jacko Mo Mo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The main problem is the species Homo sapiens.
>

I am no big fan of the human race, however keeping things in perspective, consider the following

> We are like a cancer on the planet.

So what are the many (huge) volcanoes that dot the earth?

> As the
> philosopher/atheist Nietzsche stated, a pox on the
> earth. We scar the earth with millions
> (billions?) of miles roads,

Every broken and elevated fault line, like the Wasatch front, creates huge "scars" also known as mountains, that make human road system look like fine tiny delicate lines, so are those mountain "scars" ugly or beautiful???, fitting or some sort of travesty ??


> among other things,
> killing countless animals just trying to survive.
> Planes criss cross the skies. Boats disturb the
> serenity of the oceans.

I will try to keep that in mind when Mother Nature whips up another storm that swallows boats on a whim...... or consider glass rain storms on other planets ...... or the ongoing nuclear fury /serenity on the surface of the sun ......serenity might be a totally subjective concept

Plastic debris every
> where.

Which is really
NOTHING compared to the aftermath of a volcanic eruption or
glass rain storm other planets


> We build mines for the material for much
> of our lives, such as cars, cell phones, air
> conditioners, concrete, etc. Power lines criss
> cross the earth. We take water from its natural
> source and redirect it everywhere. We are
> impotent nobodies without our bazillion sources of
> electric power. When 5G wireless is implemented
> the amount of cell towers will increase by 100
> times. A solar coronal mass ejection, frying much
> of our electric "necessities", can't come soon
> enough. Space is polluted with satellites and
> thousands of pieces of debris. Even without
> religion cultural, economic, "racial", sexual
> differences etc. would be the cause of great
> conflict.
>
> The earth would work perfectly without us.
>
> Religion is trivial nothingness compared to the
> problem of Homo sapiens.