"As LDS researcher Allen Roberts explains...'Joseph’s Masonry was not a conventional one. He attempted to restore it in much the same way the gospel was restored. That is, he saw Masonry, like Christendom, as possessing some important truths which could be beneficially extracted from what was otherwise an apostate institution.' "

So this was Joseph's MO then? Declare an existing institution apostate and then "restore" it. How nice for him.

"In similar fashion, Catholics understand that Mass is not the Holy Communion but how Holy Communion is given to the congregation."

WTH?

See? A square peg can fit in a round hole.

I like what summer picked up on . . . "He attempted to restore it in much the same way the gospel was restored."

I'll take Plagiarism for $200 Alex.


The most sacred and important ordinance and ceremony in all of creation! The key to returning to the Father, to exaltation, to getting the big mansion with the black credit card! And Mormons only have this glorious saving ordinance because Joseph accomplished this like he did when he "restored" the gospel: Borrowed from other sources, pieced something together, and added his own twist as he declared it to be of God. This is basically what this apologist is admitting to, confirming. Seems we're just one of Heavenly Father's side jobs.

Sounds ridiculous, but hey, " a sucker is born every minute!" I know because I was one for a while. And then when you figure it out it is just unbelievable that anyone is still buying it.

With apologists the simple explanation is never the correct explanation:

~The fact that there are multiple accounts of the first vision can't be because Smith made up the story.

~The fact that there is no archeological or DNA evidence for the Book of Mormon can't be because it's a 19th century work of fiction.

~The fact that Book of Abraham is "translated" from funerary scrolls doesn't mean Smith made up his translation.

~The fact that modern prophets never make a prophesy doesn't mean they don't receive revelation.

~The fact that temple ceremonies are copied from the Masons can't be because Smith was Mason and stole the rituals.

And so forth,.......

TBMs are by definition mental contortionists.

Even the Freemasons will admit that their craft is not really of ancient (Solomon) origin. It's just part of the intended aura of mystique.

If I may: there is a connection, albeit an indirect one. There is a plausible theory that Freemasonry in its earliest form was devised by the Templars, after their betrayal, as a clandestine form of trying to hang on to their former glory. Thus the overall theme of things lost which should be restored, as depicted in the story of Hiram Abiff- and thus the setting of the story in the ruins of Solomon's temple, which is where the Templar's main headquarters were. So no, the Masonic rites were not performed in Solomon's temple. They were performed in relation to the temple. There's a big difference.

And please, somebody- tell me what a "spiritual truth" is. My guess is that the greatest spiritual truth is 42.

It's another way to rationalize weirdness, an attempt to say, "Sure, it's weird and plagiarized, but here's why..." The biggest fact is that Freemasonry is just a brotherhood based on masonic (stone cutting) guilds of the Middle Ages. No Temple of Solomon, no actual religion, just an extension and social modification of actual stone masons. Like the Book of Mormon, the doctrines, and everything else, it is a knock-off of stuff belonging to someone else.

Just like stone masonry of old and the later Freemasonry, there is an attempt to keep it secret. Up until 1990, the operational word was "secret." After 1990, the operational word became "sacred" (read: "secret"). In fact, nothing makes a practising Mormon more angry that knowing people who got the "endowment" are out there as non-members and talking about it, blabbing the secrets, like New Name Noah does.

Just think of how much money New Name Noah is saving Mormons by showing endowment videos. No need to pay 10% of your income to watch a lame movie or learn secret handshakes.

They are dragging that up again. It's what my now EX told me when I was exiting in 2000, which he had believed for many years.

It's the Joe Smith "There-is-something-wrong-with-christianity-and-only-I-can-fix-it" argument.

So they’re back to “it’s not the endowment that changes/ can’t be explained/ is a ripoff of masonry, it’s only the PRESENTATION of the endowment.” Ok then, what IS the endowment? What is the thing that never changes? What are the promised blessings? And it’s not the sealing theology I’m talking about, I want to know what the endowment is. But truth is, nobody knows. And more and more people are catching on to the hoax. The temple is the money machine. And the only requirement you’re really held to in order to get in is the one involving 10% of your income. And if you make that income through fraudulent means, it’s ok as long as TSCC gets their cut.