I have always been pretty sure that when I quit the LDS church that I will also irreparably damage or even end my otherwise normalish marriage.

Can I handle that or will I crash and burn? To test the water, I scheduled several consecutive business trips and weekend conferences. I have only been away for a couple of weeks, but I am actually happier than I thought I would be. As I sit here wearing regular underwear (beneath), I feel like I am getting my own personality again. Yep, they control you all the way down to your long leg whitey tighties. Pick your own fabric. Now that's free agency!

Actually, I really do love my wife. In many ways she is cool, but I am wondering if it is worth it to ME to stay married to her. For decades I would have thought that splitting up would be the worst thing ever. It now feels more like the price of staying in is too high.

I thought I was a loyal guy, but this is like being married to a drug addict. I want to support her emotionally, but this church thing is going to consume us both. I remember in Boy Scout training they taught how important it was not to drown when trying to save someone else who was drowning. It's crazy, but I am sure each of us see the situation from the same point of view - the rescuer.

I always thought that she would pull the plug on us. Who would have guessed that it would be me?

Well, LP, if you really love your wife, I think you owe it to her to try and let the marriage work within your limits as ex-mo. Has she been making demands that you attend?

Honest communication is my reccomendation. How is she handling your absence?

She can't wait until I get back...

It's like this-

She is nice, kind, smart, generous, you name it. If it's good, that's her.

She also sees everything in terms of what the church says. It informs her politics, her conversation, and every choice that she makes. Everything positive in life is a testament of some LDS doctrine. Everything negative is due to someone not being obedient. A few years ago she observed that our kids started to struggle with school, employment, and substance abuse around the same time that I first told her I didn't believe the claims that the church made. I was trying to be open and honest, but instead I became the problem.

as she goes out today with another new guy, I'd say think it over. Oh my hell! Do you know what is out there? She's been in 2 long-term relationships, but she wanted MARRIAGE and now she wishes she hadn't been such a bitch with the 2 guys she dumped. One was 8 years long, the other was 11 years long. She was married 14 years and now she is boohooing letting that guy go, too (and she cheated on him twice). The perfect mate IS NOT OUT THERE.

I'm in a long-term relationship with the guy I considered the love of my life back in my 20s, who I let go because he wasn't mormon, although he offered to join, just didn't believe. We've now been in a relationship for over 13 years and we get along great most of the time, but life becomes "life."

I oftentimes now again long for my time to myself. He likes to spend every hour he isn't working together (and that is impossible as I work odd hours and if I want enough work, I have to take what I can get when it is available, which he doesn't like). We don't have a lot of the same interests or shall we say he still skis, but I don't. Stuff like that. It is JUST LIFE.

So if you still love your wife, THINK HARD ABOUT THINGS. Divorce is not pretty. And I can't say that enough. I've helped many of my family members go through divorce and each and every one has been hell.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2018 01:43PM by cl2.

Thanks for your thoughts. I do not want to be single, either. It makes sense and also seems morally right to work out your problems and not just quit when people are different than you hoped they would be.

We've been married for over thirty years. I told her how I felt about the church ten years ago.

I am still being asked to fill callings. She expects that we will pay a full tithe. We are asked to clean the building, give rides to missionaries, have investigators over for dinner. Attend ward parties, give talks, and it just goes on ond on.

I am tired of saying no, and I refuse to say yes. This amounts to one awkward social situation after another. Each one its own special annoyance. Each one is it's own teaspoon of hell.

She is great, but her friends are killing me.

She doesn’t sound like a deal breaker. It’s all about compromise. Yes, it’s difficult but the alternative has all kinds of things in it that you can’t even imagine. Marriage is the art of compromise. Learn it or watch the ensuing train wreck up close and personal.

>>I am still being asked to fill callings. She expects that we will pay a full tithe. We are asked to clean the building, give rides to missionaries, have investigators over for dinner. Attend ward parties, give talks, and it just goes on ond on.

I think it's long since time that you had a talk with your wife. You might consider telling her that you just can't do church anymore. Go inactive. If she wants to attend, do her callings, etc. fine. I'm assuming that she knows how to drive. She is an adult, she can drive herself there!

Tell her and her friends NO to giving rides to missionaries and having investigators to dinner. Give a "maybe" to ward parties. Your wife can do callings and give talks. Block church numbers from your phone.

Cut your tithe down to 5%. Put the money toward your retirement or into a travel fund.

See if inactivity (and establishing boundaries with your wife and her friends) improves your quality of life.

Here's my two cents (maybe not worth that much, but anyway...) I married and divorced the same guy twice. It came down to trying to do the right thing by my kids. And as I've now seen so many times, it's usually not the right thing for kids to have a miserable, unhappy parent. A good divorce can be much better than a bad marriage.

So the second time, I really asked myself, "if I'm single for the duration, is that better than staying in this marriage." There was no question that it was. And I really went into it with the idea that it's for the duration and if Mr. Right ever comes along, it's just icing on the cake. The longer it goes on, Mr. Right doesn't sound like icing anymore, marriage and living with someone sounds like a sunken cake. Mr. Right is the one who is there when I want him, but who I'm not answerable to when I don't. Which, of course means Mr. Right might give me an ultimatum some day, but like Scarlett O'Hara, "I won't worry about that now, I'll worry about that tomorrow."

But I give other people that advice, to think about whether being single for the duration will be better than the marriage they are in. Because there is just no guarantee that a decent marriageable person will come along. And I know some people who are so insecure without a partner that they just keep partnering or marrying the first person who comes along on the internet who are always so wonderful until reality sets in or their true colors show. And I'd think that those kinds of breakups would get really old after awhile.

It sounds like sans church, the two of you are happy with each other. So try to envision yourself alone, only seeing minor children on a scheduled basis, possibly seeing your spouse shack up with (or marry) another person, and really really visualize yourself--just you without anyone else, but with the freedom from mormonism. If that sounds better to you (and I know it would to a lot of us), know you're committed to it before you bring up that solution to her. Start with being ok with that outcome and then any compromise y'all are able to make, might lead to a better outcome, or at least a desire to try it another way. Because you'll always have the final dissolution to fall back on and you'd decided that would be better than the status quo.

Your life is yours to find satisfaction in and with. Playing games like wearing clothing, because someone else likes them or thinks you should, or participating in activities to make others happy, seldom works out in the overall scope of life.

You are responsible for your own happiness and trying to be the source for happiness to flow in lives of others is wearing on both you and the person you are trying to help.

My sisters husband dotes on her completely. She loves him but tells me how she feels suffocated and wishes he would go do things without her sometimes. His neediness to be with her and 'care' for her drives her nuts.

You love your wife but you love others as well and probably don't feel inclined to let them direct your decisions. You wife is a wonderful person but she has no right to try to 'fix' you. It seems you are gaining in love of yourself and wanting to express your own thoughts and follow your bliss.

Whether you wear traditional underwear or none at all is only your business. Same with the religious beliefs. You are the only one who gets to say what makes you happy and that can change as you move along life's path. A trial separation may be exactly what you need right to help you figure things out. No shame in change.

Of course the wearing of garments is just an example. You identified the larger problem which is being able to be yourself and to not be unduly or unfairly controlled by others.

The church is a controlling organization, and she accepts them as an authority.

I suggested that we move a few miles south to another town, but she wanted to stay where we are because she likes the ward. That's fine. I like to exercise give and take. The stake redrew all the boundaries and now we are in a different ward and stake. Most of the people are different. Well, that's ok too because the leaders were inspired.

She loves me, but she loves the church more. It hurts a little every time.

When I first got back together with my old boyfriend, I was afraid to lose him again, let alone having been through what I already had been. So I put up with a lot of things for too long. And I got tired of needing to be together 24/7 it seemed. He didn't even want me to hang a picture of my kids on the wall when I lived with him in Colorado. I had a room for an office. He had 4 bedrooms. I couldn't change anything in it. Not even put a lamp in there, let alone hang any picture.

Then he moved here. Even when he lived with us for 6 months and I was going to stay with him part of the time in his new house, he wants to be in control. I tend to let people control me.

I had to make the decision that I either had to stand up for myself and tell him what my needs were or we just as well break up. And it works. Of course, I have to keep stating my needs when different situations arise like when I could have 3 nights a week to work. Oh well. I have to earn a living. My therapist told me to state my needs and not back down AND to not be someone who is wishy washy. Once I told him what the needs were, I needed to stick to my guns and not let him break me down by pushing me.

But it works. We just went through a tough time of me standing up for my needs and we are doing so much better. I still won't live with him, though. But then my therapist says most couples who get together at this age (65 and 61) don't live together even if they are married.

Take a stand. She needs to tell her friends to stop doing this. That is on her. I think your marriage is worth saving, but you need to stand up for your right to be yourself.

Myself, I have to have a place that is "mine." A place I can decorate in a way of expressing myself. I like having my own room that has my stuff in it, not sharing with someone.

I'm too good at giving over my power to men in my life. I certainly did to my "ex." I've been in therapy forever trying to undo the damage that was done to me as a mormon and what happened because I let people control me. It's a tough road, but it is worth it.

Sometimes I think about letters and advice that I would write to my younger self. Try to project 20 years into the future. Twenty years from now, what letter would you write to your younger self (the person that you are right now?)

What do you want your life to look like in 20 years? Where do you want to be living, who do you want to spend it with, how do you see a typical day? Start forming a vision in your mind of what you want.

Living your life, taking the pain will certainly lead to more of the same as things will fester. Sounds more and more like a trial separation would help you and her get some clarity.

Right now you say you still love her but that will likely change. Time to chart your own course and move out of the control for a while.

Act, rather than re-act. Identify what you Do want and let that develop.

How much is this about her, and how much of this is about you?

You talk about how nice it is to wear regular underwear. That’s a choice that you can make while still living in the same house with your wife.

I understand that you chaffe under the suffocating control of the church. But you are choosing to live under their control.

You don’t feel like you can be yourself. But are you really trying to be yourself in your current life.

Instead of looking at a divorce because you don’t feel like you can be yourself, start really trying to be yourself in your current life.

Instead of looking at a divorce., I would strongly recommend taking steps to retake control of your own life. Ultimately you are going to have to learn these skills if you divorce or not.

Wear whatever underwear you’re comfortable in. Quit going to church if you don’t want to. If you don’t think that all of your money should be going to this church say so. I think it would be better to try and figure out if you and your wife could negotiate a more livable situation for you within the marriage rather than just dumping it.

I would also not tolerate being blamed for everything. One way to address that is to just point out that you feel like you’re being blamed at this time. When your wife says something offensive, you can also turn that around and say the exact same thing back at her, making her responsible for whatever it is that she’s blaming you for so that she could see how it feels to be put in that position.

I think that the fundamental problem here is that you don’t feel like you’re in control of your own life. I think the answer to that is to retake control of your own life. Good luck



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2018 05:51PM by nevermojohn.

I agree with Nevermojohn that you should start making changes now. Try to make your life more livable now. You are living with a Mormon wife, but she is living with an exmormon husband. She should be making accommodations and compromises as well.

Thank you NeverMoJohn. I guess I have been looking at this like a bomb that is about to go off. My previous way of thinking would be to just take control and detonate the damn thing. You seem to say that I don't need to do that. Just live my life and exclude the church from it. Hopefully my wife will be happier doing that. It gives her options, too and respects her as an equal.

I think my own personality is getting in the way here. But I like this approach better than where my thinking was taking me.

Thanks again (and to the others who responded). I have gotten some seriously useful advice today.

I think you need to start talking. I'm surrounded by Mormons and the striking thing is how shallow conversation is. It doesn't have to be that way. When you're shuttling Missionaries around and entertaining your wife's friends, you don't have to play so nice. And not talking about talking about problems with the church's history or JS or polygamy or any of that. The teachings of the church itself are nonsense. There are not special people getting secret messages from God about their stewardship or any of that. Countless ways you've been pretending that it's normal to live in an alternative reality convention

I agree that if you can't live authentically married, you're not going to be able to live authentically unmarried. Also, you accept the role of bad-guy too easily. When your kids abuse substances and your wife points out it's the same time you expressed doubts about the church, you can point out that the problem is that you both raised them in the church and that was apparently a mistake. You really don't have to play this game by your wife's rules. She may dump you if you stand up for yourself, but you'll dump her if you don't--so, take a risk.

I think this is really good advice. Stand up for yourself in the marriage first. See if that works out.

Lowpriest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, I really do love my wife. In many ways
> she is cool, but I am wondering if it is worth it
> to ME to stay married to her.

This really hit me hard.

I've lived with the insecurity of not being my wife's ticket to their Celestial Kingdom for many years. Sometimes it is unbearable.

The reality for my wife is she wants to stay with me as I am. And that is quite wide the mark for Mormonism - by light years from Kolob.

If my wife couldn't accept the ever changing spouse that I am, she wouldn't be with me. But there is something about our deep and abiding emotional connection. Something raw and strong like connective tissue.

She has changed with me as well. Baby steps but they are giant leaps for her. In some ways I'm helping her step outside her Mormon bubble and see things she never would on her own.

It is something I enjoy but I could see other people find this slow process frustrating and stifling. Good luck. I'm someone who understands a bit of what you are dealing with.

I think we are in different places. She feels like I have been unfair to change. By the way, she rarely changes her opinion about anything. Once she knows something, that's it.

I think I have to change my earlier opinion. It's sounding to me like the children are somewhat grown and if she's going to play the victim card, this could be a no-win scenario.

Have you tried counseling (Preferably with a non-mo one)? If that's not working and you're feeling better when you're away, it might be time for a trial separation. See how you do apart from each other. If a separation from each other isn't feasible, perhaps you could completely step away from any church duties and tell her to cut the tithing to her income only. See what happens at that point. I do think communication is the key here. You have to know what to expect from each other.

Good luck to you!

Lowpriest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think we are in different places.

Probably.

> She feels like
> I have been unfair to change. By the way, she
> rarely changes her opinion about anything. Once
> she knows something, that's it.

You have been unfair to her in changing. I'm not saying it was wrong for you to change but marriage in Celestial Mormonism is like a 1 billion years contract with Scientology.

My wife is the same. Rarely changes her opinion and sticks with what she knows. If she were different I wouldn't be married to a Mormon.

It sounds like you have set a course and so good luck. It isn't whether you should stay together or not but what you both get out of the bargain. IF it isn't worth it, I think you will find that out. Many people think my wife and I shouldn't be together. They don't understand what we are bargaining with and for so I understand on their surface understanding what they are coming from looking at our relationship.

You were NOT unfair to her in changing. You both were unfair in believing that one person's choice in this life affects another person's happiness in the next. This life, next life, etc, are all hypothetical. It is unfair to make your spouse miserable over a pretend problem. It's unfair that your parents brainwashed both of you into believing that you've got to suffer and punish each other over imaginary problems, but life's unfair apparently. So stop the guilt. The worldview is screwed up. That's not your fault. Step out of it.

Thank you. It is hard being raised in shame piled on with guilt not to attempt to accept responsibility for a "Celestial Marriage" that is pure fantasy.

It is like feeling responsible for bad things happening for not using "The Force" er, I mean "Holy Ghost" when I was a Mormon in looking for spiritual help.

Many marriages are between two normal people who are happy to work together, be around each other, love each other, whatever. Each marriage is different, of course.

The church turns marriage into worship of family. This is added to by genealogy and temple sealings, which again focuses on the idea of family for eternity.

What if your ancestor was a jerk? What if he or she was some sort of predatory sociopath or worse? Seal them up to you anyway? How would you even know? You don't, but we are led to fantasize that our ancestors were all heroic pioneers and our marriages should be shining examples of eternal heaven on earth. When our lives fall short of perfection, we are told it is because something is wrong with us. We put up with nonsense to support the pusuit of a lie. I intend to stop, but I don't yet know how to stand up for myself without hurting others emotionally.

Since the church creates family worship it owns it. If it can keep us on the hook, it can manipulate us. The church says do what we say or you will be cut off, excommunicated, or excluded from your family forever. It invents something, gets people hooked on it, and then holds it over us. The church is worse than a bunch of drug dealers.

Lowpriest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What if your ancestor was a jerk? What if he or
> she was some sort of predatory sociopath or worse?
> Seal them up to you anyway? How would you even
> know? You don't, but we are led to fantasize that
> our ancestors were all heroic pioneers and our
> marriages should be shining examples of eternal
> heaven on earth. When our lives fall short of
> perfection, we are told it is because something is
> wrong with us. We put up with nonsense to support
> the pusuit of a lie. I intend to stop, but I don't
> yet know how to stand up for myself without
> hurting others emotionally.

I'm related to the daughter of Brigham Young and Zina Huntington. There is a Celestial marriage for ya.

I've stood up for myself and hurt my little family time and again. I almost declined going to my daughter's mission farewell. I don't know what to do.

I stick to my guns and I might be a lonely man in old age. But I figure it beats being a LDS drone beloved by a family I mislead into believing I believed. I contemplated suicide when I was going to tell my wife I had lost my beliefs in Mormonism.

Our marriage isn't the best but I do have a few people who care if I live or die. I'm from a large disconnected and dysfunctional Mormon family that I call a "family factory." I exist because of Mormonism and was told so by my mother. She felt compelled from her beliefs to marry and have a big family despite wanting to be an old maid.

I have no other reason for my wife sticking it out with me other than we care about each other.

> Since the church creates family worship it owns
> it. If it can keep us on the hook, it can
> manipulate us. The church says do what we say or
> you will be cut off, excommunicated, or excluded
> from your family forever. It invents something,
> gets people hooked on it, and then holds it over
> us. The church is worse than a bunch of drug
> dealers.

It is more than drugs but a culturally reinforced mind virus.

Great advice from Summer, ExmoJohn, and others.

I agree that you can make those personal changes, within the parameters of your marriage. As exmoJohn wrote, you need to make those changes, anyway, for your own happiness.

I have been where you are, but I was the one clinging to Mormonism, like your wife is. My husband was honest, and explained exactly why he felt Mormonism is a hoax. He was kind, and never interfered with my church attendance, or the children's, but he absolutely did not support the cult in any way. He did not give them any money, he would not wear the underwear, he would not attend any meetings. He didn't even go to the children's little church talks and performances (which are designed to make the parents attend. I admired his integrity, and understood his human right to make choices for himself. I felt sad, and was treated like an awkward, marginalized single woman in the ward. I witnessed how badly the Mormons treated my husband when he became inactive, and I didn't blame him at all for not wanting to socialize with them. I didn't either, eventually. After about a year, I became inactive, too, along with my children. What a change for the better, for all of us!

You don't really know the outcome! You aren't a fortune teller or a prophet. How do you know your wife won't change, when you change, when her social life changes (it already has, in a new ward), when she had no prestige and is blamed because her husband is inactive, when the children are grown and out of the house, etc.? It would be a happy change, if your children become happier. (The Mormon cult abuses children.) As your wife's narrow, FAKE world changes, she will have no choice but to change. It will be a happy change. Give her the unconditional love that everyone craves, and that no one ever receives in Mormonism!

Once you are free from all those Mormon annoyances you mentioned, you might find that you are very happy in your life, and in your marriage! Really! Mormonism was responsible for 80% of my problems, and I thought I was depressed. After officially resigning from the church, I have been very happy, and able to cope with real life, and all its problems, and difficult people, and even abuse, with strength and courage. The petty things aren't important, anymore. Perhaps, when you're free, the Mormon church will be no more than a petty annoyance to you.

Many couples "agree to disagree."

MCR had a good point, that the cult carries a lot of the blame for your children's rebellion. Your children probably feel even more trapped and powerless and unhappy in Mormonism. Help yourself, and then help them!

My brother and his wife actually wrote their own marriage contract. You and your wife are free to be the heads of your household--make your own rules, and disregard the ones that aren't important.

You can turn around your own thinking.

I agree that the separations will be good for you. Most great marriages involve being separated for business trips, guy camping and fishing trips, girls' nights out, trips alone back home to visit family, even separate vacations. Everyone needs various amounts of "alone time." Schedule it into your marriage--and you don't have to make it a complete "separation", just mini-vacations.

Next time, you might want to take your wife along with you, just the two of you, because parents need together-time away from kids.

Get rid of your Mormon "all-or-nothing" thinking.

Please see a non-Mormon therapist.

So many good points to consider.

Thanks!

To me, being in love with a cult member is like being in love with a drug addict because the cult will always come first.

If it were me (and it was me before my divorce) I would hope to remove my loved one from the cult.

How about you agree to go to church one time if she agrees to watch with you "How the book of mormon destroyed mormonism"? That would seem fair to me. There are dozens of documentaries that deal with cults. Even the "Going Clear" series is great because most cults have a lot of similarities.

Just make it clear that if she wants you to see her side then she should also see your side too.

Also, Don't be fooled by the peace you experience being away from her. Your divorce will not be pretty. Alimony for 15 years and separating all of your assets will be a nightmare. Don't forget that you will also end up with half of her debt too. You will be paying her for the rest of your life. I'm not kidding.

How about you both go to a non-mormon marriage councilor? There are a lot of skills you both can learn to help make your lives together much more pleasant. Re-defining your relationship could be a real game-changer for your happiness and your wife's as well. Professional help really does work.

That said marriage counseling helped me but it did not help my marriage to my first wife because she suffers from Borderline personality disorder. The inbuilt narcissism that comes from that disorder makes it almost impossible for the individual admit wrong doing or make a change.

So...if your wife is not crazy counselling should help you both.

Why is divorce so expensive? Because it's worth it.

I, too, can't recommend communication enough, and would like to add that there is a healthy way of communicating and the opposite. A therapist is worth their weight in gold in the help they can give in this area. If you think you are not being listened to, it is hurtful and demeaning.

I do not think the Mormoncult is an example for healthy communication in the least. Everything sits under the umbrella of the man, the priesthood authority dishing out the instructions for how far you can jump and when you can jump.
I fell for the church's line for a while, hook line and sinker, because my home life was anything but healthy, with emotional abuse galore and often a non-talking atmosphere that resulted from the presence of alcoholism and co-dependency. For a while I clung to Mormonism because at least in some respects there was some pleasant air, plus the promise of forever happiness, if I only did what the church said.

Both your wife's and your backgrounds bring factors into your marriage which could be affecting your situation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2018 05:15PM by presleynfactsrock.