Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: August 24, 2018 10:29AM

https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2014/10/07/north-americas-wild-horses-native


Should the wild horses that roam North America be considered native wildlife? They may have been “introduced” by man, but scientific evidence suggests that they are genetically the same as the horses that became extinct on the continent between 11,000 and 13,000 years. In fact, the genus Equus could have been wiped out entirely had it not crossed the Bering Stait land bridge into Eurasia. Jay F. Kirkpatrick, Ph.D. and Patricia M. Fazio, Ph.D. look at the evidence.

Are wild horses truly “wild,” as an indigenous species in North America, or are they “feral” weeds – barnyard escapees, far removed genetically from their prehistoric ancestors? The question at hand is, therefore, whether or not modern horses, Equus caballus, should be considered native wildlife.

The genus Equus, which includes modern horses, zebras, and asses, is the only surviving genus in a once diverse family of horses that included 27 genera. The precise date of origin for the genus Equus is unknown, but evidence documents the dispersal of Equus from North America to Eurasia approximately 2 to 3 million years ago and a possible origin at about 3.4 to 3.9 million years ago. Following this original emigration, several extinctions occurred in North America, with additional migrations to Asia (presumably across the Bering Land Bridge), and return migrations back to North America, over time. The last North American extinction occurred between 13,000 and 11,000 years ago.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Shinehah ( )
Date: August 24, 2018 11:08AM

Interesting scientific debate, however there doesn't seem to be any credible scientist who claims there were horses in the Americas during the time claimed for the Book of Mormon. How can that be?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: August 24, 2018 11:12AM

heh

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: MeM ( )
Date: August 24, 2018 11:19AM

If I could gallop to Kolob!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: midwestanon ( )
Date: August 24, 2018 11:48AM

In the neiggggggghing of an eye

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: richardthebad (not logged in) ( )
Date: August 24, 2018 05:48PM

If I remember correctly, the youngest prehistoric horse remains were found in Alaska and are most closely related to the Przewalski's wild horse in Mongolia.

I consider the current "wild" horses in America to actually be feral. They were not part of the post-Pleistocene ecosystem until introduced by Europeans. And they no longer have the predators that were around when they were here. Although we could clone and re-introduce short faced bears and saber toothed cats to help control them. Naw, lets don't.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: August 24, 2018 06:06PM

And as one with lots of graduate education in English, I'm appalled at the journalistic dishonesty in that headline...

It should read "Some scientists argue..."

Now if we want to "go for the drama" (which is what they've done as a "selling point"), we should probably point out Homo sapiens is a "feral species" in this hemisphere...

Incidentally, wild horses are particularly hard on ecosystems, which is why enlightened wildlife management should severely restrict their numbers... The issue has a political element as well, of course; people will routinely support killing predators indiscriminately, but holler about horses that were only reintroduced by the Spaniards in the 16th Century.

And on the "bridging the Great Divide in Utah," an old friend of mine who's a retired biologist, has a "BLM Rescue" that is a lovely animal. He's a former bishop I keep in touch with who's aware of my heretic nature.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: richardthebad (not logged in) ( )
Date: August 24, 2018 06:27PM

Agreed. The other political aspect is the "Wild Horse and Burro Act of 1971". Prior to that, ranchers would routinely trap and sell them. I've recorded many of their traps.

But, according to that act there are target numbers for how many animals are supposed to be in each Horse Management Area (HMA's) on federal lands. Currently, most HMA's have more than double the number of animals than they should. Resulting in low wildlife numbers (I've seen the horses chasing wildlife away from water holes. In order to try to get the numbers under control, the BLM does regular "gathers" to try to get the numbers down. These are always protested and legally challenged by the "Wild Horse" groups, and held up for years. And they then have a hard time getting them into good homes.

And they are great horses. Sure footed and smart. I had a rancher tell me about getting stuck in a white out blizzard, miles from home, while riding his adopted wild horse. He said that he just gave the horse it's head and hunkered down on it's back. When the horse finally stopped walking, hours later, they were back in the barn.

Options: ReplyQuote
Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: August 25, 2018 07:31AM

"Some Scientists Argue North American Wild Horses Native Species"?

I just checked, and that fits in the available space...

>Perfectionism, thy origin is being raised Mormon." (big smiley face)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anonyXmo ( )
Date: August 24, 2018 07:12PM

Did they come over the Bering land bridge along with the Siberian tribes to arrived in America around the same period of time, and if so had they been domesticated or herded by these people? That seems to be one of the many unknowns about that period of time. Did they go extinct due to over-hunting by the Siberian-Americans of the time period?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: richardthebad (not logged in) ( )
Date: August 24, 2018 08:35PM

No. Actually horses evolved in the Americas and then migrated west into Asia over the Bering Bridge. The ones that remained in America went extinct at the end of the Pleistocene. Why is a bit of a mystery. We do find them in Paleo-Indian sites, where they were used as food and never domesticated. Hypothesis concerning their extinction range from climate change, to over hunting, to combinations of the two.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: August 24, 2018 11:11PM

https://www.sfgate.com/news/science/article/Scientists-find-perfectly-preserved-ancient-foal-13177583.php?utm_source=sfgate&utm_medium=hp&utm_campaign=hpsci

"The fossil discovered in the region of Yakutia has its skin, hair, hooves and tail preserved. Yakutia is also famous having wooly mammoth fossils found in the permafrost.

Scientists from Russia's Northeast Federal University who presented the discovery Thursday said the foal is estimated to be 30,000 to 40,000 years old. They believe it was about two months old when it died."

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: richardthebad (not logged in) ( )
Date: August 24, 2018 11:15PM

Now that is cool!

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **    **  **    **  **    **  **     **  **       
 **   **    **  **   **   **    **   **   **       
 **  **      ****    **  **      ** **    **       
 *****        **     *****        ***     **       
 **  **       **     **  **      ** **    **       
 **   **      **     **   **    **   **   **       
 **    **     **     **    **  **     **  ********