I am so glad a Mormon president wasn't elected at all, I love jfk and the first Catholic president in USA, but if mitt Romney was in then you would see book of Mormon everywhere

What do you like about Kennedy? I like him for a number of reasons:
1)he actually served in WW2 in a potentially dangerous situation
2)he said "ask not what the government can do for you, but what you can do for society (we've fallen along way since then)
3)he began civil rights legislation, which overall was a good thing
4)he started the war on poverty (which might bankrupt us?)

Sadly where I live, Romney is expected to be the Senator of Utah with Mike Lee. I'm not excited. Totally unfit,
1)he's not from Utah,
2)he keeps his money off shore,
3)he dismantles american companies and sells off the pieces,
4)he disrespects you-know-who in the white house.
5)He's never had a job.
6)He shows off his religion way too much, it's way too obvious

anono this week Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> 5)He's never had a job.
> 6)He shows off his religion way too much, it's way
> too obvious


???????? huh??

anono this week Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> 4)he disrespects you-know-who in the white house.
>

> 5)He's never had a job.



From where I'm sitting, disrespecting Cheeto doesn't make a person unfit for anything.

Regarding his never having held a job . . . Really? Does a job not count as a job unless it's manual labor? He probably hasn't needed to work for quite some time, as his money can work for him even if he doesn't work, but that doesn't mean he's never held a job.

Yes. At least once in a person's life, outside of profound physical disability, a person should do work that is hard manual labour.
One of my best friends was in charge of hiring Federal Public Defenders for one of the circuit courts. His 1st question to the new law school graduate was always "Can you hang sheetrock?"

It's optimal that a person work at some point in his or her life (ideally early) at a job that is manual labor-oriented, but at the same time, I strongly disagree with you that jobs of a less physical nature are not real jobs. I come home tired after most days of work. Some "white collar" jobs are extremely stressful.


siobhan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes. At least once in a person's life, outside of
> profound physical disability, a person should do
> work that is hard manual labour.
> One of my best friends was in charge of hiring
> Federal Public Defenders for one of the circuit
> courts. His 1st question to the new law school
> graduate was always "Can you hang sheetrock?"

I agree, White Collar work can be much more difficult than blue collar. My most stressful jobs have been white collar and that is why I work blue collar. But I would also argue that working for yourself isn't the same as white collar. Managing a financial investment portfolio isn't work, And Romney doesn't understand the working mans blues.

> One of my best friends was in charge of hiring
> Federal Public Defenders for one of the circuit
> courts. His 1st question to the new law school
> graduate was always "Can you hang sheetrock?"

That strikes me as an ill-advised approach to an interview. Public defenders are generally people who could have made a ton of money in the private sector but chose instead to do something charitable with their time and skills. To suggest to such a person that a history of manual labor is somehow relevant is unreasonable. It isn't the attorney who is the supplicant.

To put the point differently, if I needed a public defender I would want someone who had spent every possible minute learning the law and how to use it. And I would thank that attorney for using his skills, for a pittance, on my behalf.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To put the point differently, if I needed a public
> defender I would want someone who had spent every
> possible minute learning the law and how to use
> it. And I would thank that attorney for using his
> skills, for a pittance, on my behalf.

Good point. I wouldn't care if my PD knew how to hang sheetrock, I'd care if he knew how to argue a legal case.

I did several "manual labor" jobs. Put myself through my first two years of college by plastering swimming pools, for example. The work got me in great shape, and gave me a great tan...it also convinced me that I needed to finish college, and get a job that didn't require my youthful physical strength, 'cause that doesn't last -- my mind did.

Remember, this is the question and he was asking a new law school graduate.

As I mentioned in a post a week or so ago, getting through law school is a piece a cake. Hanging sheet rock isn’t. If somebody’s spent the summer working construction, that might say a lot more about their work ethic than getting a lot agree. I mean, it’s possible.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that that answer to that question may not of been the deciding factor in whether the person got the job. Just a method to explore the person interviewing.

I don’t know if either of you have practiced law, but spending every possible minute learning law and how to use it may not be the best way to prepare yourself to practice law. Maybe experiencing a lot of other aspects of life help prepare you for that. Perhaps. I’ve had a lot of different jobs and spent a lot of time studying thing besides the law, yet I found myself Doing better than probably anybody at the firm that hired me out of school. They’re all still working and I’ve moved on to other ventures - I think the fact that I’ve been in business work for other people and learned a lot about the world before going to law school made it a lot easier for me to excel and be a successful attorney.

I might add that I’ve probably hired around 100 people to work for me. I don’t mean I hired them to work for other companies where I was an employee. I mean to work in my businesses. I don’t see it as an unreasonable question at all. I see it as a way to learn something about a person. Questions are powerful.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2018 08:06PM by jay.

"I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that that answer to that question may not of been the deciding factor in whether the person got the job. Just a method to explore the person interviewing."

Very possible. It is also possible that the question was a joke to lighten the mood for the interview. It is also possible that the question was never really asked.

I'm sure there are lots of life experiences that would add to an attorney's portfolio of skills as would be true of medical doctors and virtually every other sort of professional. Of course the converse is also true: there are many manual professions that would benefit from extra education. The issue is whether the skills acquired were worth the cost.

I don't think an attorney needs to apologize, or feel inadequate, for having chosen to work as an attorney. Nor should a governor or senator feel embarrassed about having chosen that profession.

All work is honorable.

"The issue is whether the skills acquired were worth the cost."

That's one issue I guess. Another possible issue would be the skills that were exhibited, which could be relevant to a person interviewing a green attorney.

p.s. --- take you. I'm guessing law school would be a walk in the park for you. And I have a sneaking suspicion you'd enjoy it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2018 10:15PM by jay.

Been away for a bit. Yes. The question was asked. Yes it lightened the mood. If not sheetrock, was the applicant good for anything else at all besides The Law. I'm pretty sure he would have been just as impressed with cake decorating and he himself is a bandleader.
This was also during a time when law schools were churning out attorneys and many of them thought they were worthy of a fat check just because they got a J.D. on student loans.
That type usually couldn't hang sheetrock.

Now, now, Jay. Keep it civil.

Ha— :)

Crazy horse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am so glad a Mormon president wasn't elected at
> all, I love jfk and the first Catholic president
> in USA, but if mitt Romney was in then you would
> see book of Mormon everywhere


Naw.
He was governor of MA and that state never flooded w/ BoM
Most people don't give a damn about Mormonism

Catholics yes and Robert f Kennedy pounded gangsters in the 60's, they never bragged oh we are Catholic! But mitt Romney does and glad he is not in! He would probably have missionaries guard him not Marines, and JFK was the first president to send man to the moon

Are you talking about the family fortune built from prohibition era bootlegging or the uncanny ability of Jack and Robert to pass Marylin Monroe around like a football?

Paranoid much?

You love JFK ?

JFK served honorably in WW2 and I am no Romney fan, but if you are going to say Romney never had a job, the Kennedy's are not great comparisons since they inherited wealth and were born on 3rd base. Definitely honorable for JFK to serve in WW2 when he certainly didn't have to.

archaeologymatters Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JFK served honorably in WW2 and I am no Romney
> fan, but if you are going to say Romney never had
> a job, the Kennedy's are not great comparisons
> since they inherited wealth and were born on 3rd
> base. Definitely honorable for JFK to serve in
> WW2 when he certainly didn't have to.

You're right. Manual labor for his kids wasn't exactly a high priority for Joe Kennedy, and while the older three sons served in the military, I don't believe Ted did.

Joe Jr. died in WWII.

Jack's back was so messed up that when he tried to join the USNR, he was rejected. They ended up taking him after he worked to strengthen his back.


Bobby was in the USNR.

Beth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Joe Jr. died in WWII.
>
> Jack's back was so messed up that when he tried to
> join the USNR, he was rejected. They ended up
> taking him after he worked to strengthen his
> back.
>
>
> Bobby was in the USNR.


Yes. I re-read that section of his book. Edward Kennedy was, indeed, in the U.S. Army for twenty-one months with extremely light duty after he was tossed out of Harvard for having someone else take a Spanish course exam for him. By the standards of some here, even with his military service, Ted Kennedy never held a legitimate job any more than Mitt Romney did. I would disagree with them on both counts, though, because I believe that serving in the U.S. Senate is a legitimate job, just as Romney's work is "real" to me.

Gov of MA is a legit job to me.

ETA (not necessarily directed at you): What I'm try to express is that there's an undertone to this thread as well as an important question: Does what one does later in life absolve them of the crap things they did earlier?

IDK. It depends on your perspective. To me, some things are inexcusable. It's a tough question for me whether we're talking about any Kennedy (except for Rosemary - for very obvious reasons, she gets a big pass), a Romney, McCain...

I vacillate.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2018 10:50AM by Beth.

Agreed on all points.

As I see it, you implicitly raise a second question. Of the people who are campaigning for this particular job at this particular time, who is the best? That is not quite the same as whether public service later in life compensates for atrocious behavior when young.

For example, as a senator Ted Kennedy did things that many people consider virtuous. Do those compensate for Chappaquiddick? In my opinion, probably not. But that doesn't mean Kennedy was the wrong person in the 1990s, for instance.

Take also Winston Churchill. On the negative side, Churchill authored the Gallipolli disaster; forced Britain back onto the gold standard after WW1, impoverishing almost the entire working class and creating enduring social problems; and cynically used a bureaucrat, Ralph Wigram, as a spy against the British government and then upon his exposure refused to defend him, leading to the poor man's suicide. Conversely, several years later Churchill engineered Hitler's defeat.

Was Churchill, on balance, a good man? Like you, I vacillate.

Thankfully, I will never have to sit in judgment of such people. As a practical matter I only need to worry about the other question: whether an individual is the best choice for a job or office right now.

My friend from India holds churchill as an abomination who would not free India and considered them lesser beings.

Well, there was that...

Jackie was a good first lady and hack was a great president, Joe Kennedy sir and rose were both rich and they wanted their kids to be very competitive and going to mass everyday, rose was a very strict Catholic

Wrong place

Say what you want about Donald Trump. If a Mormon had won the white house we would really be up the creek.

Rose was slow. She was a child of incest. Her parents were 2nd cousins.

That may have also contributed to her namesake daughter, Rose's intellectual challenges. Joe Sr had her lobotomized at 23 and she was a vegetable the rest of her life, dying at 86.

Huh??

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Huh??


My post is all true. Do the research.

When Joe Sr had a stroke and it took almost 8 years til he died, I couldn't help but think he reaped some of what he sowed on this side.

The Kennedys are an obsession of mine and over the last 50 years I have read numerous biographies of them. You got a lot right, but Rose wasnt slow. She may have been undemonstrative as a mother,but she wasnt dumb.
My biggest issue was Rosemary. She was what was then called retarded. She could read and write to some degree but was on the level of a child. She was included in the family, her mother worked with her, she went to special schools,her brothers took her to dances and saw that she had a good time.She was even presented to theKing and Queen. However, as she got older she became frustrated because she couldnt do the things her siblings did. She became violent, hit people and sneaked out of school at night and walked the streets. The nuns in charge of her school couldnt handle her short of locking her up. Her parents were worried. She was pretty, hot blooded, boy crazy and had a well known face and a rich father.Besides the temper tantrums she was at risk of rape,pregnancy, seduction by an adventurer who wanted her money or, worse, kidnapping. Joe heard of a new procedure which was supposed to calm people like Rosemary.Joe decided to take a chance. It backfired and left her worse.She was places in a special school where she had her own house, nuns to take care of her and even a swimming pool. Joe couldnt bear to visit her, but after he died, Rose and Eunice visited her and took her home for visits. She was not a vegetable although she was worse than she had been. I have books showing her walking around her school and palaying in the ocean.The lobotomy was certainly a mistake, but Joe.was not a doctor and did what doctors recommended.He didnt tell Rose until it was over which was indefensible. He may have
been somewhat concerned about the issue of having a retarded child, but it was looked at differently then. It was something that was covered up then regularly because it was considered a disgrace and reflection on families.He was also concerned with keeping his daughter off the streets and safe

I'm unaware of anyone who ever knew Rose Kennedy herself who even hinted that she was mentally slow. She may have worn figurative blinders that shlded her from knowledge of her husband's infidelities, but she was, by all accounts, far from being dull-witted.

John Fitzgerald, AKA "honey Fitz," and Mary Josephine Hannon, - Rose Kennedy's parents - were second cousins. I'm not a genetecist, but it seems unlikely that the relatively distant consanguinity of Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy's parents' relationship had much to do with Rosemary Kennedy's disability. Eunice Kennedy Shriver said that her mother told her the doctor was late in arriving and that the nurses held not-yet-born rosemary's head in place until the doctor arrived. The direct trauma and resulting hypoxia were far more likely than incest to have contributed to Rosemary's cognitive deficits. Then again, it could have been the luck of the draw. The causes of a whole lot of cases of mental retardation are never fully explained.

Most of you couldn't care any less about this, but I must say, because I don't want anyone to think I'm obsessed in any way with the Kennedys and spend any significant amount of time researching them, that I only know this because my sister-in-law wrote a master's thesis on Rosemary Kennedy and her indirect impact upon special education in the U.S. I still wouldn't know any of this except that my wife IS interested in the Kennnedys, and questioned my sister-in-law exhaustively about the thesis during a car trip several years ago. The car was traveling over sixty-five MPH. I had no way to escape, so I had to hear about the Kennedys.



lisadee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rose was slow. She was a child of incest. Her
> parents were 2nd cousins.
>
> That may have also contributed to her namesake
> daughter, Rose's intellectual challenges. Joe Sr
> had her lobotomized at 23 and she was a vegetable
> the rest of her life, dying at 86.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2018 01:01AM by scmd1.

"The car was traveling over sixty-five MPH. I had no way to escape, so I had to hear about the Kennedys."

At the time, you probably never dreamed you'd be hailed (at least by me) as the resident expert on the Kennedys.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2018 12:52AM by jay.

jay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The car was traveling over sixty-five MPH. I had
> no way to escape, so I had to hear about the
> Kennedys."
>
> At the time, you probably never dreamed you'd be
> hailed (at least by me) as the resident expert on
> the Kennedys.

I think there are people here who know far more than I do about the Kennedys (both dead and living), though I cop to knowing far more than I ever wanted to know about them.

Gloria Swanson spent some time with Joe and Rose in their home. At the time she was Joe's mistress. Rose was cordial and friendly. Swanson made the statement that Rose was either dumb or a better actress thwn she was. I am betting on acting. Rose made him pay with expensive trips and clothes and once she was through with childbearing, she refused to sleep with him. I imagine her pride wouldnt allow her to acknowledge the infidelities, but she did leave him and went home to her parents early in the marriage. They told her she was married, had a baby and divorce wasnt allowed. She had made her bed. She went home and made the best of it.Her father had not wanted her to marry Joe.

Joe sir wanted his kids to be president and that was it! Rose was cold and distant and a very strict Catholic, rosemary was in the way for the sons politics carers, if a Mormon gets in there would be books of Mormon everywhere and missionaries all over the place, no Easter egg hunt but book of Mormon hunt

One of the arguments for voting against Kennedy was that as a Catholic president, he would be taking orders from the Pope.

The US has a long history of discriminating against Catholics tied to antipathy for Irish and Italian immigrants.

Dislike Romney for whatever reason, but to assume that he'd air drop BoMs is silly.

Crazy horse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Joe sir wanted his kids to be president and that
> was it! Rose was cold and distant and a very
> strict Catholic,

so the mother was a strict catholic! while the dad was a reckless womanizer who encouraged his sons to screw every available female around .....and they did !!!!!

so much for the matriarch's strict Catholicism since it did not amount to crap in the end result !!!!!!!!

Romney is an EPIC MORmON PHONY and an EPIC (LYING) POS

Romney ran for POTUS while his personal yacht was registered in third world country

https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/romney-party-yacht-flies-cayman-islands-flag/story?id=17105028

In march of 2016 when cheesy ass phony POS Romney attempted his take down of Donald Trump, Romney invoked the conservative legacy of Ronald Reagan and then asserted that Trump was unfit to represent it ......well guess what !!!!! Romney endorsed Reagan's Democratic opponents back when Reagan ran, so how could ROmney possibly be entitled to invoke anything that Reagan did ?????


Romney was counting on the fact that people would be too stupid to remember that !!!!!!

that is epic phoniness REGARDLESS of anyone's sentiments on Trump or Reagan !!!!!!!!



ANy one think it is OK because Romney
used contrivance to attack Trump??? Dont worry, Romney use of deceit is NOT one sided in politics !!! Mitt will LIE to attack anyone he is going against !!! because Mitt is MORmON more than (Republican or Democrat) anything else and that means LYING more than anything else !!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jqZ3C9I7To


Most of all, I despise Romney's phony hag wife, for having the nerve to attempt to evoke sympathy for Romney's supposed hardship in getting through BYU because spoiled @$$ hole Romney had to sell some of his stock portfolio to pay his expenses! BOO HOO !!!!!


What part of your stock portfolio did you have to sell to get through BYU!!!!!!!!

smirkorama Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> , I despise Romney's phony hag wife,
> for having the nerve to attempt to evoke sympathy
> for Romney's supposed hardship in getting through
> BYU because spoiled @$$ hole Romney had to sell
> some of his stock portfolio to pay his expenses!
> BOO HOO !!!!!
>
>
> What part of your stock portfolio did you have to
> sell to get through BYU!!!!!!!!

That was one of the more tone-deaf campaign rationalizations of my lifetime. Did Ann Romney not run that one by any of Mitt's advisers before using it, or did she run it by the advisers, and were they, too, so out of touch with the common people that they actually thought it would somehow make the Romneys more relatable?

From most accounts, the Romneys lived modestly while attending BYU. They should have left it at that as opposed to suggesting that they, too, had experienced true financial struggle and hardship because Mitt (gasp) had to sell some of his stocks to pay the bills.

Crazy horse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am so glad a Mormon president wasn't elected at
> all, I love jfk and the first Catholic president
> in USA, but if mitt Romney was in then you would
> see book of Mormon everywhere


I see a mook of bormon each time a thread by crazy horse is read.

JFK was smart enough not to be Mormon. Are you? Put that book down!

The Kennedy family has had their share of problems, just like everyone else.

Nevertheless,president Kennedy and his wife had tremendous personal charisma, I was a child back then and still felt it.

Jack Kennedy was most likely killed on the orders of Mafia boss Sam Chiancana.

A good book to read is is DOUBLECROSS, written by Chiancana's brother and confidante.
available on amazon
This is actually the only book I ever read which makes sense and lays out the situation in a logical manner.

The name is spelled Giancana