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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 05:07AM

Sometimes posters feel attacked when someone simply has a different opinion. Disagreements on how to treat missionaries or what to do about the demands of church officials are NOT, on their own, personal attacks. We all have a right to an opinion and to disagree with someone else. These things become attacks when one party starts calling the other names, doubting their intentions or honesty, using such terms as 'Shame on you.'etc. Maybe it would help if we could all recognize the difference and listen instead of feeling wounded because someone doesnt agree. What a thought! If someone is actually attacking you or someone else, report it. Otherwise, say your piece and then let it go.All of us, including me, are probably guilty of being too sensitive and insisting on having the last word. I guess I have seen a lot of this lately both here and in real life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2018 07:52AM by bona dea.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 08:13AM

Again, all well and good... But... If I'm convinced my position on an issue is correct, aren't I shirking my duty if I don't let you know that there is a better way? And if you are poop-headed enough to disagree, obviously stronger measures are called for!

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 02:12PM

Exactly. There’s a reason our ancestors flung poo.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 08:20AM

Lol. That is the attitude a few posters have and sometimes that includes me, but I am talking more about those who feel personally attacked because someone doesnt agree with them and said so in a civil manner.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2018 08:23AM by bona dea.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 08:27AM

Actually,no, but you are amusing.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 08:34AM

I'm blushing!

I do think it's a tragedy when online personal attacks are effective. They ought not to be, because the caliber of the attacker is usually a complete unknown. And it's hoped that the person being attacked is always a work in progress, with the hope of correcting the flaws that allow for a sense of weakness, etc., etc.

You can't be judged if you refuse to go on trial. At least in theory...

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 08:36AM

Yup.What I am talking about is something like Joe saying that he just went inactive and sees no reason to resign.Jack points out that there are advantages such as not being bothered by mishies if you make it official.Joe gets upset and feels like he and his family are being disrepected for their decision.when Jack was just expressing his view about what worked for him. At this point, it usually goes downhill fast.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2018 08:45AM by bona dea.

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Posted by: jay ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 01:16PM

I think you’re right on.

I think if somebody feels attacked when a person disagrees with them, then that is an indication you might want to take a look at yourself and why you’re feeling attacked. I definitely fall into that group.

At the same time, if you find yourself constantly disagreeing with people, you might want to ask yourself why you have a proclivity to constantly point out what you perceive as shortcomings in the post. Regrettably, I also fall into that group.

I’m hoping the fact that I can admit that I fall into those two groups is a step towards me working on myself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2018 01:17PM by jay.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 01:20PM

I am not immune from it either

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 01:24PM

What annoys me is when a poster rehashes an old offense because another person (not even related to the first) offended them.


I think when recursion happens I need to avoid that thread and/or poster.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 02:27PM

Or didn't read the post carefully enough to realize that the person who offended him didn't say anything close to what he thought was said.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 02:38PM

One thing most of us share here on RFM is that we figured out that the mormon church was based on lies and was an immoral organization. We figured that out base on many things, but often on facts. Now, facts are an important part of figuring lots of other things out. Facts matter.

On this board, if one's skin is so thin that being asked to produce evidence of one's claims sends one into a tizzy, causing one to lash out and claim that experience trumps facts, perhaps this is not a good place to hang out.

All the essays in the world are unlikely to change the desire to have assertions backed up by evidence and cited. Notice that I said desire, not demand. But if evidence and citations are avoided at all costs and denounced as unnecessary, one's still going to be able to post here, but the reputation will suffer.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 03:40PM

Devoted Exmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But if evidence and citations are
> avoided at all costs and denounced as unnecessary,
> one's still going to be able to post here, but the
> reputation will suffer.

Unless one appeals to emotions rather than facts. The Mormons heartsell exmo style.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 03:50PM

It's popular in some small circles here.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: September 12, 2018 03:54PM

Well said, Devoted.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 03:52PM

I like to be as supportive as possible to the newcomers. Beyond that there are no sacred cows here as far as I'm concerned.

I am more interested in how someone arrived at an opinion rather than the opinion itself. How a poster arrived at their conclusions should include some specifics if they want to be taken seriously.

I had a co-worker going though rough divorce--lots of" he said/she said,." and of course the judge doesn't know what to believe. I told my young friend to get a notebook and document everything the ex said or did and put the times and dates. I told him to be specific, detailed. The next appearance before the judge everything turned around for him. The judge wanted to see the documentation. It gave weight and validity to his statements.

That is an isolated case and I'm not saying it would work every time, but odds are it would help in a lot of situations.

I always take a post with some specific references much more seriously.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 05:34PM

I agree about citations.when it appropriate, but being offended also happens when someone expresses an opinion that another
doesnt share and in that case, citations dont help a lot. I do agree, post a link when helpful and if someone does-dont dismiss it if you cant bother to look at it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2018 05:40PM by bona dea.

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Posted by: baura ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 05:08PM

I think you all should bow down and worship me.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 05:51PM

citation, please!

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 06:01PM

No citations needed for opinions. You know what they say about those?!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 06:03PM

Opinions are like citations: everyone has one?

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 06:11PM

Only assholes do? ;)

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: September 11, 2018 06:11PM

Okay, Baura. Count me in so long as you always go the extra step and personalize your attacks. They mean so much more that way.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: September 12, 2018 03:18PM

If you say "I can accept that you feel that way but I disagree with you" That is one thing and acceptable.
If you say "You are wrong" that is another thing entirely. In my opinion that is agressive and not acceptable on a forum such as this. (I'll probably get slammed for this one)

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 12, 2018 03:48PM

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you say "I can accept that you feel that way
> but I disagree with you" That is one thing and
> acceptable.

I agree with you.

> If you say "You are wrong" that is another thing
> entirely. In my opinion that is agressive and not
> acceptable on a forum such as this. (I'll probably
> get slammed for this one)

I doubt you will get slammed. A recent example that this thread calls to mind is using the term "shame on you" in reply to a disagreeing post. It was a personal attack in my opinion. The offended didn't even consider the person's reasoning and jumped to offense which the post wasn't about at all.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: September 12, 2018 05:29PM

I agree totally and that was one comment of many that led me to start this thread. Calling a person stupid, an apologist etc are also not a good idea.
An example from real life-a friend and I got puppies at nearly the same time.She got a pure bred from a breeder and I got mine from the Humane Society.We were talking about some stray cats in her area which needed homes. I suggested she might try Best Friends. She said she wouldnt deal with them because the employees she dealt with in the past hated breeders.I said I wasnt aware of that of the group as a whole, but individual employees have various opinions and that I have some issues with breeders myself. She assumed I was talking about her breeder and got angry. I explained that I have had purebreds myself and that there is certainly a place for breeders. hHowever, there are dogs being put down all the time because no one wants them and that personally I prefer to adopt an unwanted dog. I had no problem with her decision but it wasnt for me. Well, apparently I am a hater and am discounting the fact that she has adopted strays too. I said no such thing.It went downhill from there. That also inspired the thread. We each had an opinion and I didnt have problem with hers even though I chose a different way.Shebapparwntly feels the friendship is over. I really dont get it.I use this as an example because it wont restart any old arguments as she isnt here.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2018 03:34PM by bona dea.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 13, 2018 03:59PM

Sorry about the loss of a friend. Sometimes questioning the person's perspective is challenging their powers of perception.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: September 13, 2018 07:02PM

Thanks. It didnt need to happen, but it did and maybe it was for the best. I dont need oversensitive people going off everytime I express an opinion they dont like.Ugh.
I too have been shamed in a similar way-possibly by the same poster for simply having a different opinion. I agree that it is inappropriate and a passive/aggresivenform of attack. State your case, dont shame people. We arent five years old.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2018 08:20PM by bona dea.

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Posted by: Anon 3 ( )
Date: September 13, 2018 11:44PM

Its not the responsibility of a person to adopt a rescue dog. It is the responsibility of the dog owner to spay or neuter dogs if they are not going to take care of the progeny. But people constantly get furious over other peoples animals.

Everyone of my dogs has been a rescue. I have breeder friends and
All of us take responsibility over our own animals. I am not a saint. I just got a dog i wanted.People should get upset when others, so many others dont take responsibility for their words and actions and boy does it get ugly when you bring it up.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 12:25AM

I dont really have a problem with responsible breeders, but personally I prefer rescue dogs. I have had good luck with them,they dont cost nearly as much and I may be saving a life. I agree that people should get the dog they want and neuter them. I would like to see more people adopt dogs who are already here though .It bothers me to see healthy dogs put down because no one wants them.

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Posted by: Anon 3 ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 03:34AM

Seroously, i prefer rescue dogs because i think theyre smarter than pure bred BUT my heart has always longed for a border collie and sheep trials. But I always seem to get problem dogs 1/2 hour from being put down or distemper or covered with ticks. My grandmother started this snd they loved her so much she taught them to talk. Family trick. Always good to bring the dog out after someones had a few shots of whiskey.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 04:39AM

lol.I would like to see that.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: September 12, 2018 03:28PM

In all the years I have been here, I can only recall one poster (whose name I have forgotten) who got in my face in an objectionable way about one of my posts.

I tried a few times to gently (and politely) re-clarify my point, but the person kept flaming away.

I was annoyed and stayed away from the board for maybe a week. I like to think that I am generally a polite poster. I may think that someone is out to lunch on a certain topic, but I never say so. And when arguments flare up, I usually check out and go elsewhere. Contention between people who are there to support each other is not pleasant.

We can, and do, disagree. But there is no need to get ugly about it.

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 12:39AM

Please don't ever change bona m'dear.

And I don't know what took me so long to say that.


[grin]

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 12:41AM

Ah, thanks. Dont you change either

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Posted by: Alan Robinson ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 05:08AM

I'm new here and absolutely support passionate robust exchanges of opinion.

However personal attacks are reprehensible.

Also we need to take into account that most if not all of us have been sliced and diced to the bone prior to us posting on here so sometimes even the slightest breeze can hurt like hell.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 12:39PM

If you can train yourself to look at the other person's argument before having a knee jerk reaction things are so much better.

The poster I replied about in this thread wasn't interested in other people's arguments against there argument.

I have been guilty of being drawn into that kind of drama but it isn't helpful for me. I like to debate and that isn't debate but drama for the sake of itself.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 12:55PM

I have a hard time letting it go and not trying to get the last word. I need to watch that.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 01:05PM

I'll let you have it...whoops!

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 01:30PM

Lol. That would cut down the length of threads a lot. My last word

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Posted by: lisadee ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 12:50PM

I'm a newbie here and I don't know the "dearly recented departed" member. But I have been online for many years and have been on many message boards. In my experience, those who announce their departures from a board are attention-seeking. They want others to beg them to stay. They want other members to regale them on how much their presence blessed the site.
Personally, I don't engage them.
Leave if you wanna leave. Don't make some grand announcement about how you're hurt or offended. Whoever rubbed you wrong doesn't know you IRL. They don't pay your bills. You will live if you stay or go.
Go if you must. Take a break. Work out whatever it is within YOU.
Come back later if you wanna...or not.
Everybody has problems.
Some people have ISSUES.
May God help us all.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 12:53PM

Besides,if you want to come back it is less embarrassing if you didn't announce that everyone here is so mean that you are leaving and never coming back.

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Posted by: lisadee ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 02:22PM

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Besides,if you want to come back it is less
> embarrassing if you didn't announce that everyone
> here is so mean that you are leaving and never
> coming back.


Oft times, the departed already had a 2nd acct and just starts posting with it. Or they startibg ghosting cuz they reslly cant stay away in spite of how utterly "done" they are with the site.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 15, 2018 12:09AM

You know how they take a specimen and put it on agar to see what it cultures out to be?

I like seeing that happen on a "Message Bored"...

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