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Posted by: littlelostspirit ( )
Date: September 13, 2018 04:34PM

I've been inactive for about 5 years now. I stopped going to church after a youth conference trip to Kirtland, OH. I noticed some minute details that got me questioning the validity of the church and thus my beliefs. Being so young and born into a TBM family, I did not know how to handle all the feelings and emotions I had. I did a few weeks of research (I read a few paragraphs here and there on the school bus from MormonThink). It put me into a horrible state mentally to the point where I began harming myself for a short time... I think I ended up suppressing all of my feelings towards TSCC at the time and became inactive. I tried to discover who I am, without TSCC in the way. I focused on myself and on my education. Never to think about it again, unless my family brought it up. It got significantly easier for me once my family moved across the country and stayed on the east coast for college.

However, with recent events those emotions and feelings I felt years ago are back with a vengeance.

My father resigned a few months after I became inactive. He just recently got re-baptized (I think this is largely because of his love for my TBM mother). I just realized that I'd never get to see my TBM sister get married. I’m questioning my decision to leave due to the events related to my family. I know TSCC is a load of bull and I never EVER want to go back. Why do I feel like I made the wrong decision? How does TSCC still have a large impact on my thoughts? Would actually doing research, now that I feel more equipped to deal with these emotions, help me to cope and feel no longer controlled by TSCC? Where would be the best place to start?

With Sam Young most likely being excommunicated over Protect LDS Children and Joseph Bishop not even being questioned by church leadership about his actions I am furious. The new MormonLeaks about TSCC covering up sexual abuse and rape further exacerbate my feelings. I never realized how close these things were to my ward, some happened in my stake. That could have easily been me, if I decided not to lie during my worthiness interviews. I don't want my name associated with an organization that covers up sexual abuse and related incidents.

Protect LDS Children & these MormonLeaks documents really got me thinking about resigning. I don’t want my name associated with this mess. If the church was truly Christlike this never would have happened. I’m in a battle with myself over resigning. On one hand I really think resigning would help. On the other, as embarrassed as I am to admit this, I am worried I’ll be cast into outer darkness (even though it more than likely doesn’t exist). Afterall, if there is a god, then he/she should be loving and understand why I did what I did, right? I am also extremely worried about the repercussions it would have on my TBM family. My mom always uses eternal families as a way to guilt me into trying to come back to church. I don’t want to break my family’s hearts or hurt them further. I love them so much.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: September 13, 2018 04:46PM

God isn't going to cast you into outer darkness because you pulled the plug on being a Mormon. It is a C-U-L-T. You are trying to free yourself from it.

Resigning is good medicine. It helped me to get over my having been one. I still struggle, but it is now dying embers rather than a raging inferno.

No you aren't wrong to feel the way you do.

God needed to pull the rug out from under my feet of being a practicing Mormon to let me see that it's all a mirage. I was standing on solid ground underneath that mirage/facade of a pseudo religion.

I found my relationship became stronger, not weaker, with my heavenly father after I left with my family intact. No, it wasn't easy, but it has been worth it. Who wants to live a lie? Do you really believe God would want you to succumb to such falsehoods?

"Seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you," works both ways. Joseph Smith used that to con people into his lair as a false prophet. I used the same scripture to help me find my way out of his labyrinth.

You can too. You may always feel shadowed by having grown up in TSCC. I had reoccurring dreams for years and years before and after I left it. Haven't had any in a very long time. Since finding RfM in 2015 I may spend more time discussing LDS topics, but it has helped finding a support group of like-minded ex-Mormons who've been where I was to network with online. If my dreams return it will be interesting to see how I navigate them this time.

You can love your family and still maintain your independence regarding forming separate beliefs from theirs. If they truly love you, they will want what's best for you not what's best for them.

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Posted by: littlelostspirit ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 01:44PM

I never realized "Seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you” could be used both ways. I really like that. Thanks for sharing. I think that phrase will help me through several things.

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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: September 13, 2018 04:57PM


I'm so so so sorry for the difficult situation you're going through and so so so amazed by ANYONE who has the courage to admit to themselves that there is something amiss with TSCC. Sending you some real good vibes for all you're dealing with. The following is my crappy two-cents, take with a teaspoon of salt.

About your dad:For whatever it's worth, I have a brother and I know plenty of people that stay in the church for a spouse. My wife just left me a few months ago after I fell away from the faith of my fathers and to be honest, I came VERY close to renouncing my decision to step away simply to keep her. For me, it became a matter of personal integrity that I felt I couldn't dismiss. I'm not saying people that fake it to stay with their spouse are lacking integrity, I just suppose their motives, priorities, etc. are different than mine WHICH IS OK, and healthy, and normal. Now, that doesn't mean that I would base mine off of anyone else's approach. You can respect your father's decisions to come back without questioning your own decision to stay away.

Most importantly, you said "Afterall, if there is a god, then he/she should be loving and understand why I did what I did, right?"

YOU ARE SO RIGHT. If there is a god that really knows us as personally as we've been told, then he/she/it will definitely understand the reasons behind your decision. I used to feel guiltripped by my wife when she would say things like "faith is a choice, you've chosen not to believe and in doing so are breaking this marriage apart."

Faith is a choice, to a certain point. After a given threshold (of facts, morals, logic, knowledge, etc), faith is NO LONGER a choice. Here's the kicker, every single person has a threshold at a DIFFERENT level. There is absolutely no reason to feel guilty about having passed your threshold of willingness to choose to believe or participate. Whenever I feel guilty I remind myself of this.

Best wishes, stay in touch often.


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Posted by: littlelostspirit ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 01:49PM

Thank you for your words of encouragement and for sharing about your family and their relationship with TSCC. It has lightened the frustration I have about my dad being re-baptized. I really appreciate it.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: September 13, 2018 04:58PM

IMHO, I think doing research WOULD help you move on.

Keep in mind, the guilt you feel over certain things has been "programmed" into you. The lessons taught in primary and sunday school over the year contain content that is deliberately geared towards making you feel that way if you consider leaving. The church (and lots of other organizations) has been doing this for a long time, they know what works to instill that guilt in people who think about straying from their organizations cult rules.

If I might with the "eternal families" thing first. On your own, then with your mother.

For example, what has the church taught about all the various generations of "eternal families" living together? What will that be like? Would it be your mother & father and all their kids, or if you step back a generation, would grandparents from both sides have all of THEIR kids, and how does that work since your family (with your mom and dad) would have to be with TWO grandparent families at the same time? And going back more generations, the problem just gets bigger and bigger? And how can you take your resurrected wives (yes, wives) with you to start ruling your own world if you're stuck living with hundreds of generations of eternal families? How the heck does all that work?

I can assure you that when you start asking those kinds of questions about ANY part of mormon doctrine, what you'll find is that the vast majority of it isn't detailed anywhere, nobody knows any answers, you'll get criticized for even asking, and people will get angry with you for wanting to know.

Because none of the made-up doctrine is very well thought-out. It was cobbled together in pieces as Smith made it up, it never came from "revelation," and whatever new bit he put out at any one time (which was never complete) was usually only enough to shut some annoying member up at the time, or get his one actual wife off his back for sleeping with teenage girls, or to toss some problematic thinking person out of the church.

Nobody actually knows any of those answers. Nobody. The supposed one true church in the universe, with a living prophet that has had a direct line to god for nearly 200 years, doesn't even know the answers to simple questions about their claimed "eternity."

That'll make you feel a lot less guilty right there. It'll help keep you from feeling like you're going to "outer darkness" (another made-up nonsensical bit nobody actually can explain). It'll help you realize you made a good choice by leaving.

But beware: indoctrination since childhood isn't overcome in a day. Or a year. Maybe not ever. It takes real work. It takes knowing yourself, recognizing when you start responding to visceral feelings instead of thinking things through (and stopping it!), and you have to keep it up for a long time. They messed with your brain growing up. You can't fix that overnight.

I wish you well on your journey.

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Posted by: littlelostspirit ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 02:01PM

Reading your posts made me feel instantly better about my decisions. You said, "Nobody actually knows any of those answers. Nobody. The supposed one true church in the universe, with a living prophet that has had a direct line to god for nearly 200 years, doesn't even know the answers to simple questions about their claimed "eternity."" This is really encouraging to me. I feel a lot less guilty for questioning everything and becoming inactive. Thank you.

I feel like I have forgotten a lot about the teachings of TSCC gospel since I haven’t needed to think about it in years. I think it will come back to me once I start doing research on it. I’m just not sure where to start. Do you have any recommendations?

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: September 13, 2018 05:09PM

If you had grown up in North Korea, your mother would be appalled at you questioning Dear Leader. Where’s your loyalty, you should like eating grass.

Your mind has been carefully manipulated to fight against itself. I assure you, you’re not crazy. I really researched the BoM and BoA. There’s no way they can be anything but frauds. That’s the only possible conclusion. That means the people pushing them are fraudsters, knowing or not. How can you believe anything a church full of dupes says?

If that weren’t enough, the manipulation is worse than the lies. Then there’s the church playing the role of the Oedipal mother stunting your emotional growth. There’s so much wrong there.

Why should this have anything to do with God? Mormons project their sick mentality onto God and pretend all is well in their little corner of hell. Since you’ve gone to the trouble of busting open your shackles, don’t even think of returning to the plantation. They don’t care about you. They really don’t. They only care about the image of you they’ve built up in their minds. It’s all they can see in their current blindness.

There’s nothing wrong with religion per se. Only pathologized religions. Stay TF out.

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Posted by: presleynfactsrock ( )
Date: September 13, 2018 05:34PM

As other posters have said, the MormonCult is a master at haunting. It has been busy for a lot of years at indoctrination and you and myself and others, lots, have been the unfortunate recipients. Learn about cults, and I guarantee you will see that Mormonism fits the bill.

You cannot loose by using critical thinking, as you have shown your are using, to sort out fact from fiction. Having and using this skill will serve you well throughout the rest of your life.

As for being sad about not being able to attend your sister's wedding, there are many things that you can do to show her that you care. Plus, remember that your not attending just may be the one thing that someday will make her question and leave the cult. You can't loose by being an example of integrity and courage!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2018 05:35PM by presleynfactsrock.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: September 13, 2018 06:01PM

presleynfactsrock Wrote:
> As for being sad about not being able to attend
> your sister's wedding...

Keep in mind, it's not that you're not attending. It's that a nefarious cult is PREVENTING you from attending because you won't comply with their ridiculous rules, and won't pay them 10% of your income. You not being there isn't your's theirs!

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 13, 2018 05:40PM

There is no Santa Claus.

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Posted by: lisadee ( )
Date: September 13, 2018 05:55PM

Common Issues in Post-Cult Recovery

by: Patrick Ryan, Editor of AFF News

Excerpt taken from this online article titled “Post-Cult Problems: An Exit Counselor’s Perspective”

Some of the recovery issues that keep recurring in my work with ex-cult members are:

1. Sense of purposelessness, of being disconnected. They left a group that had a powerful purpose and intense drive; they miss the peak experiences produced from the intensity and the group dynamics.

2. Depression.

3. Grieving for other group members, for a sense of loss in their life.

4. Guilt. Former members will feel guilt for having gotten involved in the first place, for the people they recruited into the group, and for the things they did while in the group.

5. Anger. This will be felt toward the group and/or the leaders. At times this anger is misdirected toward themselves.

6. Alienation. They will feel alienation from the group, often from old friends (that is, those who were friends prior to their cult involvement), and sometimes from family.

7. Isolation. To ex-cult members, no one “out there” seems to understand what they’re going through, especially their families.

8. Distrust. This extends to group situations, and often to organized religion (if they were in a religious cult) or organizations in general (depending on the type of cult they were in). There is also a general distrust of their own ability to discern when or if they are being manipulated again. This dissipates after they learn more about mind control and begin to listen to their own inner voice again.

9. Fear of going crazy. This is especially common after “floating” experiences (see point 18 below for explanation of floating).

10. Fear that what the cult said would happen to them if they left actually might happen.

11. Tendency to think in terms of black and white, as conditioned by the cult. They need to practice looking for the gray areas.

12. Spiritualizing everything. This residual sometimes lasts for quite a while. Former members need to be encouraged to look for logical reasons why things happen and to deal with reality, to let go of their magical thinking.

13. Inability to make decisions. This characteristic reflects the dependency that was fostered by the cult.

14. Low self-esteem. This generally comes from those experiences common to most cults, where time and again members are told that they are worthless.

15. Embarrassment. This is an expression of the inability to talk about their experience, to explain how or why they got involved or what they had done during that time. It is often manifested by an intense feeling of being ill-at-ease in both social and work situations. Also, often there is a feeling of being out of synch with everyone else, of going through culture shock, from having lived in a closed environment and having been deprived of participating in everyday culture.

16. Employment and/or career problems. Former members face the dilemma of what to put on a resume to cover the blank years of cult membership.

17. Dissociation. This also has been fostered by the cult. Either active or passive, it is a period of not being in touch with reality or those around them, an inability to communicate.

18. Floating. These are flashbacks into the cult mind-set. It can also take on the effect of an intense emotional reaction that is inappropriate to the particular stimuli.

19. Nightmares. Some people also experience hallucinations or hearing voices. A small percentage of former members need hospitalization due to this type of residual.

20. Family issues.

21. Dependency issues.

22. Sexuality issues.

23. Spiritual (or philosophical) issues. Former members often face difficult questions: Where can I go to have my spiritual (or belief) needs met? What do I believe in now? What is there to believe in, trust in?

24. Inability to concentrate, short-term memory loss.

25. Re-emergence of pre-cult emotional or psychological issues

26. Impatience with the recovery process.

—end of excerpt–

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Posted by: littlelostspirit ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 02:06PM

Holy moley! I've heard people call TSCC a cult before and my nevermo boyfriend and I make jokes about it being a cult all the time but for some reason this really hit me. I guess I never thought it was actually a cult until now. This is a terrifying realization.

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Posted by: Inky ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 06:53PM

It absolutely is a cult.

Just after I left TSCC I began a psychology degree at university. (I had been a stay-at-home mum for many years before then.) One of the first things we studied was scientific thinking and then we studied cults. Mormonism ticks every box in a list about how you identify a cult.

Since you left while you were still in youth, if you haven’t already read about it, you may not know that in the endowment ceremony you promise not to criticise church leaders (cult!), and you promise to give TSCC everything you own if they tell you to give it to them, including giving up your life (CULT!!!). Then you look at how they keep you busy and away from “the world”, how they tell you what to think, how they claim they have special knowledge that nobody else has...

Of course it is very difficult and will take a long time to deprogram yourself, but you do not have to worry about going to outer darkness, that was a cult strategy they used on you to keep you scared of leaving.

I wish you a very happy life.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 07:56PM

That's why it's terrifying to find yourself where you're at as you disengage from TSCC. You are de-programming yourself from having been brainwashed by a cult. It is scary, when it's all you've ever known.

You will move beyond it. Be patient with yourself, and gentle.

Celebrate what makes you unique rather than what made you the same in the cookie cutter Mormon mold. Find your inner peace (it is there.) And center of gravity (it is there also.) Celebrate having a questioning mind that led you out of a cult.

You don't have to throw away caution or sensibility. Just need a re-alignment and re-arranging of some priorities. Your moral compass is still at work! :)

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: September 16, 2018 12:11PM

You’re not paranoid if they really are out to get you.

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Posted by: badam2 ( )
Date: September 16, 2018 02:11PM

Wooooh best post ever written.

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Posted by: badam2 ( )
Date: September 16, 2018 02:15PM

I need to print out that list or something but still have no printer.

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Posted by: bobofitz ( )
Date: September 16, 2018 08:08PM

Hi Adam. The list comes from an online article that you can google anytime. Or you can go to the library and print it on their system. Sounds like you’re getting stronger physically and getting to work and stuff. Good for you, good job.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: September 13, 2018 06:35PM

Christianity got along just fine before Mormonism came along. And almost all Christians believe that they will be reunited with their families in the afterlife. Mormonism just charges you 10% of your income for that. Other faith traditions believe we survive this life as well. The ancient Romans believed it. The ancient Norse people believed it.

Ask yourself, what type of church would exclude loving family members from weddings? What church would ask children and minors extremely inappropriate questions during private bishop interviews? Or would completely drain members of time, resources, and money?

I'm going to bet that your personal standards are higher than what the Mormon church demands. Maybe you believe that churches should put significant donations into charitable works and not real estate investment schemes. Or that a church should not give young fathers and mothers demanding "callings" on top of their other, important family responsibilities. Or that a church should not exclude loved ones from family weddings. Or that an innocent child should not be instructed by a church functionary on intimate sexual topics. Or any number of other things.

I left Catholicism when I realized that I was perfectly capable of thinking through deep moral problems and making up my own mind about the correct course of action. I also realized that it was perfectly okay to say, "I don't know."

You can think differently from your family and still build loving, respectful relationships. Don't be afraid to strike out on a different path.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: September 13, 2018 08:14PM

My sister is only 17 months older than I am and I was not allowed to see her married because I hadn't been through yet and had no future husband hanging around, but she got to go to mine. None of our other siblings got to go, though, as they were too young or were no longer mormon.

My daughter is TBM and almost got married 3 years ago and could very well be getting married soon and I won't be there. I actually don't want to be there as the price for me is too high. I just saw my boyfriend's son get married on the top of a MOUNTAIN (13,000 feet) in Keystone, Colorado. It was an absolutely beautiful wedding. That is how I'd like to see my daughter married. I'd prefer to NEVER set foot in a temple again. It is nothing like you would expect it to be.

When you said utter darkness, my reaction was "utter lightness." Leaving the lds church has been a relief in more ways than I could have imagined. It is one of the best things I've ever done for myself. My life didn't get worse, it got better.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2018 08:15PM by cl2.

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Posted by: TX Rancher ( )
Date: September 13, 2018 09:00PM

Such great responses and support from some great people on this board. I have nothing to add except my admiration for you and anyone who frees themselves.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 03:33PM

Just a thought on the sealing ritual, from a person that has sat through 4 of them including my own.

They are very generic and bland. I wouldn't dare call them a real wedding in any sense. To me, they were as impersonal as can be because the only one that talks is the temple officiator. Just a lot of "stay close to the church, be obedient, follow the profit, blah blah blah".

There's no flowers, no music, nothing special. Just a bunch of trick mirrors in a white room.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 16, 2018 02:32PM

Contrast the sealing room crap with The Marriage at Cana, where the wine flowed so freely that they ran out. When the steward tasted what Jesus had wrought, not knowing its origin, he ad-libbed that contrary to custom, he'd saved the best wine til last.

The Gospel of John doesn't say it was the reception at Cana, it says it was the wedding. The WEDDING!

Who writes home about what went on in the sealing room?

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Posted by: moremany-NLI ( )
Date: September 16, 2018 11:57AM

Only a siCkULT would operate like this. It is an evil con that traps and binds and holds people back [from being themself] every day.

It is designed to cause doubt, just about the wrong things.

I had mixed emotions too. I also had over 20 years of freedom, happiness and inactivity beneath my belt (when I permanently quit, and excommunicated tscc). I don't know what it was doing there (with my six pack) but I tightened it anyway.

It will go away.
Mormonism destroys, BUT ONLY in this lifetime.

"Eternity" will not see, recognise, or even know Mormonism.


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Posted by: Felix ( )
Date: September 16, 2018 03:27PM

I would recommend that reading all aspects of church history both pro and con is a powerful way to deprogram and lose the guilt and fear associated with indoctrination. Once you have a real knowledge of the falsity of Mormon claims it is much easier to renounce it and the guilt and worry associated with doing so.

"To really understand something is to be liberated from it."

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Posted by: Messedwithme2 ( )
Date: September 16, 2018 09:19PM

I am going through almost all the same feelings. Thank you for writing this as I haven't been able to put it in words.

Feeling that I know it is a cult, yet getting worked up in my mind about the 'what if's.'

I get so scared I freeze at times and other times I feel lucky to get out of the cult.

Since I am one of the very few in my family and extended family, I am confronted with finding new ways to live.

It is lonely.

It is scary.

And I hope for more hope soon.

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Posted by: anono this week ( )
Date: September 26, 2018 06:22PM

The thoughts presented by littlelostspirit seem very conflicted. I would say your not ready to cut off from mormonism completely if your scared of going to hell for it.

So take your time and think what is the right way, focus on that, do your best, and by all means trust in that. (and you won't go crazy)

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: September 26, 2018 06:28PM

You got some great insight here. What got to me was your last line:

" I don’t want to break my family’s hearts or hurt them further. I love them so much."

They shouldn't want to break your heart either. But their Mormonism comes first and your heart second because it is a cult. It's a two way street and you only own one half of the highway. And their hurt? That is one of their weapons to control you through your own empathy.

Many of us here are caught in this No Man's Land you find yourself in. You have to make it clear you are what you are. What you are needs no excuses. You love them. But it is on them to love you and you can't make them. I don't mean to say it. That goes no where. You just be yourself and let the chips fall where they may.

Show them all the love you have. Be fun and supportive. But only as long as you can be yourself doing it. That is what I did and my family came around to a good degree at least--after a long, long while. You never know.

The Mormon church is a Cult. I am impressed you figured it out so young. You are cooking on all burners.

Now practice rolling your eyes for all the family visits in the future and have some laughs about them with your boyfriend after.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: September 26, 2018 06:34PM

It takes time to de-program. It can take years. Think of all the years it took to brainwash and indoctrinate you into TSCC.

I still revere and believe in deity. At some point I was able to separate my beliefs in God from what I used to believe was the gospel truth as Mormonism.

For me, the bible is the word of God. Not the BoM. That is the key that helped me transition out of the cult of Moism. It's even spelled out in the bible as in a warning of what to watch out for as false prophets, wolves in sheep's clothing, and altered scriptures.

Joseph Smith is the quintessential false prophet spoken of in scripture, and so is TSCC.

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