Saucie (who I have a crush on) posted about ancestry and inspired this ramble.

When I was a kid. I was referred to as the Bishop's kid. Always pointed out.

When I went to the LTM one of the apostles kids was there and it was remarked on regularly--might as well have worn a sash that stated as much. This one had an air of superiority and entitlement which you wouldn't even see in the Royals usually. He was very popular. He was hot on top of it which didn't help matters.

At BYU having an ancestor who had been a G.A.elevated one's social status given the already in place atmosphere of Apostle worship. Also in play were ancestors who were the first in Utah or who actually crossed the plains in a covered wagon. Mine came in hand carts but I never said so.

Some of the guys who were coerced into the electro-shock therapy at BYU did so because they couldn't let down their Pioneer Heritage families and shame them. Ready to sacrifice themselves for the family reputation. Hard to explain what being outed to a prominent mormon family would mean back then when the rest of the world was still much in alignment with the Mormons on the subject. No wonder the suicides which Dallin said never happened.

My TBM-to-the-max Mormon mother is all about "family honor." The sacred family name. These many decades later it kills her to have anyone know that she has a gay son. It shames the family. She still hides it. Of course everyone on the planet knows. Family honor.

My own family traced ancestry back to the Stewarts. This was not only interesting, but a badge of honor for my mother. I have no idea how accurate it is. Nor do I care.

Even as a TBM I didn't care about ancestry like most of my family. I wanted to really do something with my life. I was an outlaw before I even realized it. Accomplishment was my god. Well also Alain DeLon.

One of my heroes in life is Jane Goodall. I have no idea who her ancestors are. I know who she is. I know what she has accomplished. I only see her. Anyone kind to a dog is royalty to me.

I know 23 and me and some of the others have helped unite families and that is wonderful. I read an article in the paper lately about a sperm donor connecting with his kids and they were looking for him already. They had a wonderful reunion--hadn't seen each other for a lifetime plus nine months. This anonymous thing is over rated. This part of ancestry, of DNA, of knowing your lineage is wonderful.

I have lived for many decades in SoCal in the most mixed of environments as our business collects all types and our clients are varied beyond belief. I have never in forty years heard anyone announce with pride who their ancestors were or what their lineage is. I like that. Mix it up if you want to be happy I say.

Lineage is interesting. But we all need to be seen for our own accomplishments, our own kindness, our own selves. It's all that counts. For some reason I love exotic mixes. I don't care who begat who. I just want to see a connection when I look in someone's eyes.

I just feel "out there on my own" today and want to connect with anyone else who feels that way.


If you have read this far this Any Rooney moment is over Thank you from Done and Done, also known as "Mr.el creepo' troll" from another thread. Has a nice ring to it, no?

Well said, D&D, a hearty "Amen." I like to think of myself as "Mongrel-American."

The claim jumpers, horse thieves, scalawags and grifters of a hundred years are the revered, esteemed ancestors of today. America is the land of opportunity: it's not where you come from that counts, but what you're doing with your life and where you're taking it.

Mongrel American! We used to say "Heinz 57" as well. Does anyone still know what that means I wonder?

Heinz 57.....made from a blend of 57 different herbs and spices...…


In human think, if you were Heinz 57, it means you were decended to a TON of different races and locales.

You're not alone, D&D. Same boat here.

While hardly mormon royalty, my family was part of the pioneer tradition, and we had a highly-placed member (official church spokesman). My dad was really the first to bail on the church, but he did it on the low-down, mainly just going inactive and pretending to still care (he didn't). Partly to not sully the good pioneer family name. I was the second, and I wasn't nearly as quiet. 'Cause I didn't care about the ancestry or the family reputation among mormons. I still don't :)

I was also the first in the family to go "mongrel" (marry somebody, and have kids, outside of the white-and-delightsome Utah crowd). Since then others have, and I like to think that was in some way enabled by me taking the snide family comments ("couldn't you find somebody like you to marry?") in stride and telling them all to f*ck off if they couldn't handle it.

I don't care where somebody came from, or who their ancestors were, or what family name they have, or what color their skin is. I like honest, kind, decent people. And there are plenty of 'em out there, in all shapes, colors, sizes, and family histories. Screw the rest of 'em :)

" . . .and I wasn't nearly as quiet."

You? Hie? Vocal? No. I don't believe it! Haha.

One of my ancestors was fairly close to Brigham Young. The only question I would like to ask the ancestor is if he believed Brig was really a prophet or if the ancestor was part of Brigham's scam.

"Do the people near, and at, the very top of a movement based on the belief of the followers actually believe their fraud?"

And if so, did they believe from the start, or come to believe as the scam became more intricate? Did they believe in the beginning, then get seduced by the power and privilege?

If you look at the list of what qualifies you as mormon royalty, my family is the fringe element. My ex's family is mormon royalty. My ex is still treated as mormon royalty to this day even though everyone knows he is gay. Women still flock after him. They think can save him. Hell.

Anyway, people talked about mormon royalty names on here just a few weeks ago. I am a Christensen. We were FOR SURE not treated as mormon royalty. I was treated better while mormon when I was with my ex and he was cheating with other men, and he was moving up fairly quickly in leadership. A lot of discernment there. His dad was a bishop. My dad was a clerk and he hated even that. He was a farmer and taught school. He didn't have time for these meetings and he hated the gossip that happened at bishopric meetings.

I was also of pioneer stock. Also Martin handcart company. Never knew I was royalty until I came to this board. Not one of my siblings would believe me if I told them. My one sister I told, we laughed until we cried.

Myself, I could care less about my ancestry in terms of years and years ago. Am I related to George Washington? (Someone is who told me about it recently). I don't care. I knew my grandparents. I knew my parents. And I'm very much my own person, which made it difficult to fit into mormonism. I did not want to be like other mormon women AT ALL.

I am proud of the fact that I found my way out and I purposely SHARE IT. It may have taken me all these years to find my place in life--where I fit in--but I did it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2018 12:02PM by cl2.

"It may have taken me all these years to find my place in life--where I fit in--but I did it." I love to read that from anyone here at RFM.

But I like to think we are a lot alike anyway, cl2. Maybe it's having been raised just a couple of counties apart in very similar towns.

Also like you, knowing my parents, grandparents, and great grandparents means a lot.


My father was raised in a house with a dirt floor. Some days they only had coffee to eat. Most of my Mormon ancestors drank coffee. Old pioneer Mormons weren't so judgmental I would say or fastidious. They had to survive and didn't really have time to be pompous. My great grandmothers from Norway and Denmark used to give us sugar cubes for a treat. I remember their faces and the Norwegian pancakes and the looks in their eyes. I like what is in my memory bank more than what any ancestry chart says. But I guess DNA information and genealogy at least give someone who doesn't have those real life memories something valuable, a connection to at least . . . something.

Guys, I really wonder how many of us are related..... Don't want to give out too much info online but I sure do wonder!

Susan I/S Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guys, I really wonder how many of us are
> related..... Don't want to give out too much info
> online but I sure do wonder!


I wonder, too. I've seen posts that caused me to wonder whether they were authored by my cousins. As far as I know, only one first cousin on either side is out (other than I, though I'm not my own cousin). Maybe there are more, and maybe they're here.

Done and Done !!!! What a coincidence about the crush... I had just yesterday decided I really liked you.. My God !!!!

but seriously I think I'm falling in love with you ;-).. winky wink. I like your style... You've turned this bleak day into
a Fab day. Thanks Luvie.

Now if the dawg will get here with my roast beef sand from the

deli, everything will be perfect.

What about me?

BYU Boner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What about me?


Boner... you know you'll always be in my heart. Ever since our

lunch at the Red Iguana and we hugged!!!!!

I love you with a mighty mighty love !!!!! Every one here

who hasn't met you should know that you are so wonderful and

you give the absolute best hugs in the world. I don't understand

how you don't have trillions of women running after you every

day and every night.

Ah Saucie, now I’m blushing! There’s so many wonderful people here! I’m with you and Done and Done!

I play many roles and eat many rolls, but one role I cherish is pretending to be a founding member, in 1945, of The Exalted Sons of Montezuma.

All I ask when we meet is a heartfelt tip of the Sombrero. ... or I'll cut you!

A tip of the sombrero, and, un abrazo con tres palmadas en la espalda como hicimos en la misión.

Seriously, you tell Saucie and I which Sunday, the location and the time, and we'll be there! We're in North Orange County, but I know all of LA County like the back of my hand.

But we will want to pay our own way. We will not allow you to pay for our dinners, not after what happened with BYUBoner... He paid at the Red Iguana and then we felt obligated to, you know..., <ahem> well, uh, ... I can't talk about it!

I would love to. Right now I have some heavy,personal, extenuating circumstances I'm dealing with that would make it impossible. I will take a raincheck as that sounds like one of the best afternoons ever! I'll even tell you about all the art I bought at the church auction. ;)

And for the record, our rain has started, so I'll be trying to get to Laguna Beach for some vitamin D. When? No idea. Hopefully before I jump in the sound.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2018 01:40PM by Beth.

I’ll be with you in spirit! A rainy day, art, coffee, and friends!

And, man. If Laguna is rainy like the last time I went...ugh. Just ugh.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll even tell you about all the
> art I bought at the church auction.
> ;)


I'm on pins & needles!!! Please remember to do so in as many separate threads as possible!!

I don't care what you think unless you take me to the driving range.

I have anger issues. And don't criticise my technique. Whoever said you shouldn't hold a golf club like it's a baseball bat is an idjit.

When you get to Laguna Beach I will take you to a driving range where you can beat on all the golf balls you want. And rest easy, I never give advice. You beat on the balls any way you want.

I will. Myriad threads. I plan to go for the record on this one although the bar is already set pretty high.

I hate being called exotic. A lot women of color do. I was the brown chick white guys dated to show how cool they were until I realized I was the brown chick white guys dated to show how cool they were. Some dated me to piss off their moms.

But this was South Jersey. Much different than SoCal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2018 10:50PM by Beth.

Thank you Beth.

And I do get your point and take it seriously. I should clarify what I meant when I added the word mixes to the word exotic. I have long--decades now--loved seeing ethnicities mix it up to the point where you don't know who is what and suddenly you find you no longer care. I wonder how things like 23 and Me play into that? Does it hurt or help.

I read an article a while ago about black women getting off the wall compliments on their hair that they actually find offensive. It's all a little tricky sometimes. I was raised in Utah in the sixties and still have a hard time remembering to stop the knee jerk reaction of calling Brazil nuts something else. In fact I could write a full book on this subject but I'll stop now before I go all "Maude" on you.

I will use the word exotic with more caution in the future because I do understand and I appreciate the way you put it. That will stay with me.

It's weird. I've been told that I'm pretty for a black girl, that I should say I'm Brazilian (<-- crazy, right? Their slave trade was larger than ours), that I'm not black but half Filipina and half white - I must have been adopted. Anything, EVERYTHING, other than allowing me to identify as black. SMDH

The saddest thing I heard was, "Why do you say you're black when you don't have to?" A classmate (black) asked me this when we were in elementary school.

The idea is that being an exotic beauty separates you from the majority idea of beauty, whatever that may be. You're not a true beauty. It happens across the board to Asian women, NDN women, Latina women...you get the idea.

I'm from the East Coast when the one-drop rule reigned (still reigns?) supreme. Both of my parents identify as black, and passing was a very, very bad thing to do. Some of my relatives have, and I recognize it as a survival imperative more than turning their backs on us. The sad thing about passing is that you have to move and you can't see your family. My paternal uncle came home for funerals, and when his mother was dying, she asked for him. That's when we found out that he'd predeceased her. No one told her for good reason.

My extended family looks like any and everything. I've been asked where I come from. Sometimes it's pure curiosity with no value judgement attached. Sometimes there's a value judgement attached, and I tell those people that I was born in the US; therefore, I am from the US. I've been told, "You know what I'm mean." To which I reply, "No. What *do* you mean?" ::crickets::

Sometimes strangers would come up and touch my son's hair. Strangers! Jesus.

Anyway, DNA was a cool thing to do. I know from US history in general that a lot of the mixing up of both sides of my family was not consensual. I also know from recent family history that some of it was, going back to the late 1800s. Somehow my mother's black ancestors found themselves in West Virginia during and after the Civil War. I don't know if it was luck that they were in a state that broke off from VA to stay with the Union and my family became free. I don't know. Anyway, they were farmers and coal miners, and my great-great-great grandmother was from Wales (DNA agrees), and she married a black man, how light? We don't know; colorism was a pervasive problem then as well as now. She raised her kids and was like, "Eff this! Wales is better than this messed up country," and back she went. My great grandmother and her father went to visit my GGGGGGGGG grandmother in Wales when GG was a child. That's kinda cool.

So, there you go. Descended from love and sexual assault, I'm part of the American story.

(Apologies for typos. I'm not going to proofread this mess.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2018 02:35PM by Beth.

Thanks for taking the time to expand and for the personal viewpoint, personal history. What you have written really should be an article in some papers or magazines. Of course the people who need to read it the most are the ones who don't read it. I have found reading all those article I read from magazines and newspapers have really helped me understand more and more that we are all more alike than we are different.

I sympathize with your son. The article I was referring to in the NYT a while ago about black hair was mostly about people wanting to touch the person's hair which I find creepy and they found offensive. I laughed so hard when you wrote, "Strangers! Jesus." I guess it isn't only Mormons who have trouble with boundaries?

I just want to post this for anyone lurking who may never had read it:

Human Family

By Maya Angelou

I note the obvious differences
in the human family.
Some of us are serious,
some thrive on comedy.

Some declare their lives are lived
as true profundity,
and others claim they really live
the real reality.

The variety of our skin tones
can confuse, bemuse, delight,
brown and pink and beige and purple,
tan and blue and white.

I've sailed upon the seven seas
and stopped in every land,
I've seen the wonders of the world
not yet one common man.

I know ten thousand women
called Jane and Mary Jane,
but I've not seen any two
who really were the same.

Mirror twins are different
although their features jibe,
and lovers think quite different thoughts
while lying side by side.

We love and lose in China,
we weep on England's moors,
and laugh and moan in Guinea,
and thrive on Spanish shores.

We seek success in Finland,
are born and die in Maine.
In minor ways we differ,
in major we're the same.

I note the obvious differences
between each sort and type,
but we are more alike, my friends,
than we are unalike.

We are more alike, my friends,
than we are unalike.

We are more alike, my friends,
than we are unalike.

Beth,

I appreciate your posts. I still have to respond to your post regarding the 23andMe/Ancestry DNA.
I can definitely empathize with a lot of what you write.

With me, there had been people that had asked me if I was Indian, Dominican or South Pacific because of how I looked (and I'm sure those questions were out of innocent curiosity).

I would also be asked "where I was from" when people found out about my multi-racial background. Interesting thing is, that I would get that from people from TSCC, rather than people from outside of the church.
When I was asked that dreaded question I would say, "New York, technically." to which they would respond, "Okay...where were you BORN?" I would say, "Virginia." and they would just stay silent and say, "Oh."
Sometimes I wanted to be a smart-ass and say, "I'm from a country where mixed people are created, because that thing NEVER happens in the States!" or "Do you not listen when I speak?! I have a mild New York accent! (I've been living in Maryland since 1994) That should obviously tell you where I'm from!" Jeez!

Wearing my hair naturally in church seemed to be a sin as well. For a few years, I was the only African-American in the ward that I started out in. It was in (what used to be) a small town that was about thirty minutes outside of Baltimore. One weekend, I decided that I was tired of flat-ironing my hair and decided to just wear it wild and curly. Some people in the ward said that I looked cute, but there were many that would give me strange looks and WOULDN'T SPEAK TO ME until my hair was straight again. Crazy isn't it?
Funny thing was, at work, my coworkers liked me with my hair curly. And like church, I was the only African-American in the office.

Done & Done. I appreciate your post as well. Sharing your background and sharing that you've learned from Beth's post. It shows your humility and your open-mindedness. (Is the latter even a word? Haha.) Thanks for sharing Maya Angelou's poem. I always loved her, but unfortunately I never read the poem that you had posted. So thanks!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2018 05:40PM by severedpuppetstrings.

My grandmother would straighten my cousins' hair with a hot comb. While they were getting burned on their ears and the backs of their necks (you know, cooties in the kitchen), I'd watch wishing I could have it done, too. They'd be like, "Are you crazy?"

Since I've been an adult, almost every hair stylist has tried to get me to get one of those Brazilian hair treatments, and I'm like, "I can do that on my own with lye and not have to keep coming back."

Sometimes I look in the mirror and think, "Well, my hair decided to go full on ethnic today," and move on. :D <-- it took a long time to think that way.

You might like this book if you haven't read it: _No Telephone to Heaven_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Telephone_to_Heaven I took a class called "Language and Social Identity."

@ Done and Done: Thank you for the poem - I hadn't read it before, either. And thank you. I'm pretty certain that being accepted for who you are, fighting labels and struggling with identity is part of the human condition. What does it mean to be a man? A woman? An ex-Mormon? Who gets to choose the labels that have been and continue to be attached to me (us)? Labels from external forces have been internalized and compound my struggle with identity, an identity that will always evolve. I think that's true for all of us. It's immutable characteristics that seem to trip up this society. "What do you mean you're _______? You look _______." That's across the spectrum of race and gender when people don't conform to others' idea of what it means to be a woman or a man or ______________.

I think the Millenials have it right. You don't have to understand what it is to be ________ . It's impossible to do so. BUT if you want to listen and learn, if you're curious, and I hold myself to the same standard, that's what matters. When my kid was 15, he dyed his hair fire-engine red. It was damn near blinding, and my parents FREAKED. I told them, "Until someone holds you down and dyes your hair red, don't worry about it. He's in high school. It's unlikely he'll be able to do it as an adult. For all we know, he might go bald, so give him this, huh?"

/soapbox (Customary apologies for typos and such)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2018 05:03PM by Beth.