Looking for some good answers to this common question to those of us like me who have left the church. I grew up in the church and went on a mission, was well into my 30's before I really took the time to study church history which is when my eyes were opened.
I am leaving THE (MORmON) church alone, just the same as it left me alone ......as it insisted on invading, permeating and dominating every aspect of my life to suit its OWN objectives and purposes as I was growing up.
.....Yah! How did I ever learn to be so critical and demanding !!!! I must have come up with those modes completely on my own as a 5 year old !!!!!
The answer to this question is to point out that they are not making a point.
What do they mean by "leave alone"? If a banking institution is getting up to dubious things, is it legitimate for someone who has invested in the bank to tell reporters that they "should leave the bank alone and stop asking questions"? It's a tactic. It's not a refutation of suspicions.
They are simply using a discussion-terminating, a question-terminating tactic.
They are happy to make assertions about their faith, their beliefs, what they believe is right and wrong and so on. But when someone responds with arguments that they have no legitimate counterarguments for, they seek to pull the ejection seat lever and get out of that discussion as soon as possible.
"This person is making factual, logical arguments for which I am woefully unprepared. It makes me feel like maybe I have not ever really examined my own beliefs. This is uncomfortable. I am in danger. I AM IN DANGER! MY FAITH IS IN DANGER! That's it. I'm outta here!"
Reaching for the ejection seat lever, s/he then says: "Why can't you just leave the Church alone!"
It's not a legitimate tactic. It's silly and ridiculous, if all you are doing is asking questions and pointing out inconvenient facts.
It's like two sides in a court hearing. One side has presented their case. The other side then starts presenting their case, and it quickly becomes obvious that ALL of the facts and ALL of the logical analysis favors the second side, so the lawyer for the first side starts yelling: "Why can't you leave my client alone!?!?"
It's a desperation move.
It's punting when you realize that you don't have any other plays left.
What if you said something like this: "The church sounds great. I kinda wanna be active in it, but I saw something on the interweb that said that Joseph Smith set up a prostitution house in Salt Lake City in the 1850s. Is that true?"
Do you think the TBM would cry out, "why don't you leave the Church alone?" If it was a relatively knowledgeable TBM, they wouldn't. Why? Because they would have no problem making a legitimate argument to you, pointing out that Joseph Smith died in 1844 and therefore it was not possible for that crazy internet rumor to be true. Then, since you left the door open, they wouldn't "leave you alone". They would be trying to sell you on why you need the church in your life.
The church is an organization that sends thousands of young men and women out all around the world to knock on doors, hand out pamphlets on the street, use gimmicks to get peoples attention so that they can attempt to persuade people to join the church.
The church is an organization that issues press releases, launches ad campaigns, promotes itself on TV.
Does that sound like an organization that wants to be "left alone"?
And why is that TBM presumptuously pretending to be the spokesperson for the church by telling you that the church wants to be left alone?
donbagley Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > With the help of my father, Mormonism ruined my > childhood. I owe them my full attention. They > wouldn't leave me alone then, and I refuse to be a > silent victim now.
They didn't win.... you are such a wonderful person donbagley.
Funny thing, as THE warrant and mandate for "my" full time MORmON mission, I was given THE charge to endlessly attack and expose corrupt apostate religions in the interest of promoting THE (MORmON) Church.
In large part, Due to "my" full time MORmON mission, I learned /realized that THE (MORmON) church is one of THE corrupted apostate religions that needs to be attacked and exposed THE most!!!
This reminds me of a talk given by Neil L. Andersen in the October 2015 GC. He said: "To those of faith who looking through the colored glasses of the 21st century, honestly question events or statements of the Prophet Joseph from nearly 200 years ago, may I share some friendly advice: For now, give Brother Joseph a break!" He didn't look or sound too friendly when he was saying this!
The late 20th century was filled with too many examples of sects that were allowed to operate as they pleased, with vary degrees of tragedy ensuing.
Mormons always imagine themselves as a "mainline religion" immune from scrutiny, not a crackpot sect requiring continuing oversight. As we now know, even mainline organizations require independent monitoring.
That "Men in Black" tool is incomplete. Yes its effective for helping us stay on the strait/narrow path that the Correlation program grooms us to follow by wiping out our own memories of things that could cause Doubts. But we still need to have all such information that is helpful for keeping us sheep in line annotated in our membership records. And it would be effective for getting everyone assimilated deeply if the Bishops had some "Men in Black" tool that would cause them to be super committed and focused on getting themselves more deeply groomed by the Correlation program to be more assimilated into this wondrous cause.
Only a dishonest apologist would ever try to suggest that anyone should leave the Church alone. If you know of any so-called apologist making such a suggestion then let me know and I'll go rebuke them :)
The benefit of having critics raise questions is that it gives all of us in the Church community a full opportunity to demonstrate how the truth can withstand all scrutiny and come out shining strong as people see the Church be super honest and transparent about everything :)
Now I admit that I do have a severe credibility problem here as I'm supposed to be providing a link on the Church's website to all the information/answers that all of you have about church finances, statistics, doctrines, and other history. In the meantime my slothfulness and delays are leaving a huge opportunity for the Adversary to tempt you to have some Doubt about whether this Church really is the most true, honest, and transparent organization ever :( As long as you all have thoroughly gotten your brains cleansed and immersed through the beloved Correlation program to think the peculiar way that the Brethren groom us to think then maybe we can avoid you having any Doubts ferment in your minds.
I know this sounds simplistic and redundant but my answer is "because the truth matters".
Mormon leaders: “Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet ... or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground. If Joseph Smith was a deceiver...then he should be exposed; his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false.” Joseph Fielding Smith in 1954
“If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.” J. Reuben Clark
This church of lies has deceived multiple generations of my family, and is trying to gain the next generation. And at the top of the church is a group of pompous jackasses just smiling and enjoying the deception... first class sociopathic behavior. I am pretty pissed at this situation.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2018 12:39AM by chipace.
- Sent missionaries to my house at all hours of the day regularly for 3 years. My final missionary visit was 12 years after I last attended an LDS event. - Had members hound me by phone. 10pm? Brother Sparty is obviously home! Perfect time for a call! - Had it's members leave plates of food on my doorstep without advanced notice. Made for a real fun surprise when we came back from a week long vacation and found a family of raccoons guarding the plate of what I can only assume was cookies on our front door step. - Spread rumors about me and the "real reasons I left" behind my back. This hurt most of all, as the people I thought were my closest friends were the biggest culprits.
See, I tried to leave the fucking church alone. I wanted to leave it alone for over a decade, but the church couldn't handle that. Every time I thought they finally got the picture, another missionary visit, or another rumor. The church is the unstable ex-lover that just can't accept that it might have been their fault that we left. I had it better than most - I converted when I was in college and left after 2 years. I didn't have any family in the church, but it was still a painful, stressful process to leave. I wanted nothing more than to just stop going to church and be done with it - I didn't even care that they kept me on their membership rolls for 12 years after I stopped attending. The fact that they couldn't just leave me alone, though? That was what pissed me off, and that was what ensured that I'd always tell people the truth about that cult.
They hounded me for more than 25 years. That's when some ding-a-ling phoned and said I was assigned to bring a hot dish to one of their events. What? After never attending their ward, their stake or any ward in that state? And telling them for all those years to leave me alone?
They have not right to suggest any of us should leave them alone. They don't know the meaning of those words.
After 6 years of not attending a ward, my mom got a call one day asking her to let me know that I had missed my last 3 assigned church clean-up days and that I was expected to clean the following week. My mom has never been a member of the Mormon church, and that call ensured she never would be.
I had a constant parade of "priesthood" visitors for years, all trying to call me to repentance for sins against the Mormon version of God.
The straw that broke the camel's back was a year ago, having missionaries and the EQ President of a ward I've never attended show up at my door - 100 miles away from the last ward I ever attended as a member - telling me that they missed me at church. I logged on to Quit Mormon THAT NIGHT and resigned. If you truly want to leave the church alone, let Quit Mormon do the legwork for you.
For me, one big thing is the way they control politics in Utah, and that includes how my tax money is spent and what they teach my kids in the schools. Excuse me, but those are issues that I choose not to "leave alone".
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2018 11:50AM by slskipper.
Two weeks after half of my house burned (and getting zero assistance from any church leaders or some sort of moral support or reassurance that things would be ok) a priesthood leader called the place where I temporarily lived (where I was sleeping on the floor) in order to complain that there was nobody available to run the church's computer. Apparently, the local missionaries were upset that they couldn't get their grubby little hands on a membership list. I was a ward clerk at the time.
Fast forward two months later where I had returned to a shell of a living room, bathroom, and bedroom with scorched walls, missing roof and here's the financial clerk asking if I am going to ever come back to the church. His real mission was to demand that I promptly return the church keys to the building. He left my smoke shack in disgust; without the melted key chain and church keys.
It took me 5 years to shake off the guilt for feeling angry and betrayed by the LDS Corp. In the meantime, I continued to argue with missionaries that came to save Brother Goop.
A little over 10 years ago, I had to call law enforcement when an arrogant missionary refused to leave my front porch after I told them to leave my yard. The bastard locked their bikes to one of the support columns on my front porch and walked out my front gate. The constable had to call another officer with bolt cutters to cut the the lock. Their bikes were left in the street.
And you tell me who's not leaving the church alone!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2018 02:10PM by messygoop.
I want all who are making their own discoveries to be validated when they make discoveries about changing church customs, contradictions in church customs, opposing or hiding past doctrine, church history, etc. I do not want any other person to be invalidated or minimized when they make discoveries about changing church customs, hidden church history, contradictions in church.
I believe in validation, and providing validation thorough exploration and sharing experiences and examples to all who are making their own discoveries about the church.
I believe curiosity exploring ones own lds church experience, church family experience, and thoughts about doctrines and customs in ones life relating to church deserve respect, vindication, and validation.
I believe for people to lead purposeful lives and find joy when they discover a need to explore variations in the church, that they must be validated and their discovery treated as credible, matter of fact, and important part of life.