Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 02:51AM

He has basically declared a small war against a basic (and totally reasonable) aspect of human nature, i.e, an instinct for economizing when economizing is possible.

Why use fourteen syllables to refer to a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints when two syllables will communicate the idea much faster and save wear and tear on the jaw joints?

Mormon. One word. Gets the job done.

Not only that, this shorthand reference efficiently communicates that you are talking about: a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints and a person who believes in the Book of Mormon.

One word communicates all that. Pretty damn good deal, if you ask me. Way to get one word to efficiently do the work of twenty or more words, without any loss of real meaning!

Mr. Nelson, it's not going to work. The long "official" name of the church has been around since 1838. People will not waste time using twenty words, when they can use one to say the same thing.

If Nelson were CEO of Starbucks, would he say something like this? "When we use the 'Starbucks' name, there is a glaring omission. The heart of our enterprise is coffee and coffee-derived beverages, as well as other beverages and snacks. If someone says they are going to Starbucks, they are ignoring the essence of our enterprise. We should always refer to 'coffee, coffee-derived beverages and other beverages and snacks.' Otherwise, we will fail to communicate the focus minds on the heart and true nature of our endeavors."

Nelson totally misidentifies the issue when he says: "Embracing such nicknames in the past may have been the result of not wanting to offend others."

Nobody embraced the nickname because they did not want to offend others. If it became popular to call Mormons "Joe's Assholes," does Nelson think that Mormons would embrace this new nickname because they did not want to offend others? Ridiculous!

They embraced the nickname "Mormon" because it fits and it's a more efficient way to communicate. Past "prophets" did not embrace the nickname because they did not want to offend others. The official name is too long for everyday use. Shorter versions, like "Member of Church of Christ" or "Member of Church of Jesus Christ" are indistinguishable from countless other churches and sects around the world, leading to confusion and more work having to explain "which church of Jesus Christ" you're talking about. Eventually, every conversation will end up having to use the word Mormon to clarify who and what is the subject of discussion.

He's also totally clueless when he warns that using the word Mormon means that “we have failed to defend the Savior Himself, to stand up for Him.” That really is one of the stupidest things I ever heard. "Mormon" is simply a designator, a descriptive term used to signify a particular type of Christ worship. It's no more a failure to "defend the Savior" than the word "Baptist" is.

Is there nobody in Nelson's inner circle who could have explained this to Nelson before he pulled this boner in GC and sent the Morgbots to running around in circles and wasting time trying to make this work in reality?

Morgbot response (in dalek voice): 'Must implement. Must implement. Mormon bad! Exterminate! Exterminate!"

Joseph Smith announced the official name of the church in 1830 as simply the "Church of Christ" (yeah, but that's what all those "false" churches call themselves too).

Apparently, that created problems due to lack of distinctiveness. (He probably really wanted to call it the Church of Joseph Smith, but that would have been too audacious.)

So it went through several name changes, including the "Church of Jesus Christ" and even the "Church of God." Well, the "Church of Jesus Christ" is Nelson's preference. So it should have stayed that way, right?

Nope. Wasn't distinctive enough. Didn't communicate how Mormons were different from all the others who called themselves Christians.

In 1838, we got the full, long official name...and everybody immediately replaced it with "Mormon" for real-world conversations and discussions.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 03:03AM

Over a century and a half of people inside the church and outside the church using the word Mormon is bigger than a 93 year old prophet at the end of his rope.

As soon as President Nelson kicks it and the new prophet comes in, a lot of his silly changes will be forgotten as he will be forgotten.

All focus will be on the new guy in charge who probably thinks Nelson was a bit out there on things.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 03:21AM

94, and the way he’s going I’ll be surprised if he makes it to 95.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 02:37PM

Russ could be around for another ten years. I had a great aunt who was still doing yard work and was mentally sharp at age 95. She lived until she was 105. When her health did finally go it went quick and she was miserable. She often would say she was ready to go when she no longer had the physical strength to do anything.

Oaks is up there in age. Ballard is up there in age. Eyring is up there in age. Even if any of these guys become prophet they won't be prophet long. Most likely the next long lasting prophet will be Holland or Uchtdorf.

Holland is a bag of nuts. He might be more crazy than Nelson. Utchdorf would be like Monson. Highly charismatic and liked and probably would be a more liberal prophet.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 03:05PM

Rubicon Wrote:
> Holland is a bag of nuts.

And some are in his neck region.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Red Leaves ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 03:09PM

He is more spry and sure on his feet than his two counselors, who are several years younger. I wouldn't be surprised if he manages to last another 8-10 years.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Concerned Citizen 2.0 ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 08:38PM

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 11:36AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 03:46AM

Mormons ENJoy inconveniencing others, calling attention to themselves, and being "peculiar."

A new kid moved into our California neighborhood, and the teacher announced to the class that he was to be called by his full name, "Leopold Baron MacDonald The Third." Every day the teacher called the roll, using the full name, and the class would boo and hiss. After Leopold III was beaten-up a few times by the school bullies, he went by the name of "Leo", and began to make friends. The principal was a friend of my parents, and he told my parents that he tried to control the bullies, but that the new kid would probably never be accepted, with that long name. The principal's challenge was to convince Leo's arrogant parents to stop trying to control everyone. They were a pain, for as long as they lived in the neighborhood--always complaining and making a fuss--and creating problems where there were none.

I still think this is a deliberate power-play by Nelson, to show off, create a stir, and throw his weight around, and, at the same time, teach the Mormons to be even more self-important than they already are.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 04:33AM

I'm sure that journalists, writers, commentators and such are all just rolling their eyes, just like all of Leo's classmates.

It would be like some pretentious Dweebenheimer checking in at the "Thrifty-Save" motel and, before heading off to his room, leaving some instructions for the desk clerk: "And, I say, good man, it would be brilliant if you would be so kind as to bring a bucket of ice around about an hour from now, along with some new slippers in their original wrapping. I cannot stand the thought of using used slippers. And do be so good as to bring some Belgian chocolates and a tray of canapes. And, in the morning, I would appreciate it if you would come to my room personally to give me the morning newspaper. Oh, and do arrange for my car to be washed and detailed this evening. The dog made a dreadful mess of things on the way over. Now that's a good chap! Mind you if you take care of these things properly there may be an extra 50 cents in it for you."

The desk clerk is of course rolling his eyes: "Sure, Lord Poopface, I'll get right on it."

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 03:52AM

As several people have pointed out, the whole thing is a scam to make it harder for people to connect the church with "anti-Mormon" stuff on the internet and elsewhere. It is standard practice for Mormons. Polygamy became Spiritual Wifery and then became Celestial Marriage. The Kirtland Bank became the Kirtland Anti-Banking Safety Society. And so on. It allows them to deny any and all accusations leveled at Mormons, because they are now and have always been "members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints". "Mormons" are those other people- you know, the bad ones. I believe the proper name for this is cowardice.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 04:39AM

...kind of the way that some "rebel" groups are always changing their names so that nobody can really get a handle on what they stand for, who is supporting them and who their members are.

In the church's case, it's doomed to failure because their Orwellian tactic can't be forced upon the general public. The word Mormon will inevitably have to come up to clarify who, what, where and when. Substitutes will not be accepted.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Red Leaves ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 03:12PM

So now the entire Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints is filled with ex-Mormons? Good Move!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 06:11AM

Being a MORmON is a failure to defend the New Testament Messiah, since MORmONISM is a comprehensive and intensive mockery of and insult to traditional Christianity, and to general morality and decency in society.

MORmONISM was started based on the Book of MORmON as a foundation to distinguish it from other Christian religions and to make it better than other Christian religions. Its amazing that the cheap gimmick of MORmONISM worked at all, especially given that it is such an absolute fraud and so laughable to most people !!!! Given that odd dubious success based on the cheesy novelty of the Book of MORmON and the preposterous Joseph SMith story, we have now arrived at the point were MORmONS want to do away with the gimmick that made their STUPID MORmON religion's existence possible. In reality MORmONISM should have imploded years/decades ago. Dumb luck somehow prevented. Eventually the inevitable implosion comes along.

However delayed and delinquent , I will be enjoying the collapse of shoddy absurd insulting vile MORmONISM immensely !!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 09:39AM

The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Nobody calls it that. But that's the official name.

It's either "Roman Catholic" or just "Catholic."

Russ should try and learn from history. :)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2018 09:39AM by ificouldhietokolob.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: sparty ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 09:42AM

At the end of the day, it's just going to fail because most people don't care enough about Mormons to know that the church's leader doesn't want people to call them that anymore. Mormons know about it because, well, they are Mormons. We know it because we are still closer to the Mormon bubble than we would like to be. The average person, though? Think about how long they have been sending missionaries out, door to door. In all that time, missionaries have always introduced themselves by the church's full name. Go ahead and ask a random person what the real name of the Mormon church is. Go ahead, I'll wait. Unless that person is 1.) Mormon, 2.) Ex-Mormon or someone who knows Mormons, or 3.) someone who knows a lot about religions, they probably don't know.

The best PR campaign they ever had was the "I'm a Mormon" campaign. They were trying to take full ownership of the one term everyone knew them by.

This is just going to be a new way for them to claim persecution. They know that no one else buys their persecution crap anymore, so now they need to think of something to convince their membership that they are persecuted. This will become a way for middle-aged white conservatives to thumb their nose at political correctness and play the victim card. Mormon has never been a bad word to most people, but as long as Rusty is at the helm, it will be considered a slur. If Nelson wants to claim that the term Mormon is offensive, then he has to put every church president before him on blast. Was God not talking to the president of the church when the name "Mormon Tabernacle Choir" was approved? Was Gordon an apostate for green lighting "mormon dot org" to be the church's primary PR site? Was Monson offending God when the "I'm a Mormon" campaign rolled out? These are all legitimate questions that Nelson and church apologists will have to answer - especially if the name of the church has never been open for negotiation, like Nelson claims.

Nelson is trying to peddle his own personal pet peeve as a divine revelation, but it won't work. Either God has always been offended that the church embraced the nickname, or Nelson is full of shit. In a couple years, Nelson will be dead and forgotten. His "Teachings of..." Sunday school manual will be extremely thin and unfulfilling for members to study. Any record of the church's unsuccessful attempt to purge the Mormon nickname will only exist in archived conference talks that no one ever reads.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2018 09:43AM by sparty.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 09:59AM

So I am no longer "anti-mormon" ?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 10:00AM

No, you're anti-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints.

Nelson is anti-mormon.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: snowball ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 12:30PM

They've been trying this for so long. It's a big waste of time.

I remember sining "I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" in primary in the 1980's. It just never catches on--especially because they waffle on it all the time. Embracing the Mormon moniker and then backing off. I guess it's something to do.

Now, let's consider the big picture. This is the prophet of the entire world. The regent of the creator of the universe. We have an unstable genius President of the U.S., a warming planet, racial hatred, destabilizing migration, tremendous disparities in wealth and income, gross violations of human rights...I could go on. And THIS is what he chooses to spend his time addressing?

The name of the organization and what to call its members?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: RPackham ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 01:31PM

Wally Prince Wrote:
> ...[snip]..
> So it went through several name changes, including the "Church of Jesus Christ" and even the "Church of God."

Actually, the only other official name the church had, for about five years, was "Church of Latter-day Saints" without even mentioning God or Christ.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 12:27AM

the "Church of Jesus Christ" and the "Church of God" at the very early stages. But you're right, there apparently was no "official" declaration of those names. It could be a misreading of early texts where nouns were generally capitalized without reference to formal names.

Very funny that the official name for a time was simply the "Church of Latter-day Saints." According to Nelson, that must have been very offensive to Jesus and a "failure to defend the Savior." Wonder how Joseph Smith missed that. Must've been busy with other things. ;o)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lowpriest ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 02:13PM

Health in the navel....

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 11:01AM quite different from demanding that everyone use an inconveniently long label when a short one will do.

I'm sure that a lot of Mormons will be more than happy to spend hours explaining who they are and what they think they stand for and why the "Mormon" label doesn't begin to adequately identify them as the Christ-centered, savior worshiping people that they are.

But, alas, human nature being what it is, people who are only vaguely interested in Mormonism will not be inclined to use a very long set of words to refer to "Mormons" when the word "Mormons" communicates all they wish to communicate.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: momjeans ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 03:32PM

Lowpriest Wrote:
> Health in the navel....

What the *%$#@ does that mean anyway? Are there unhealthy navels? All I know is that the phrase used to make my friends and myself giggle in church.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: October 10, 2018 02:55PM

a LONG time ago, I arrived at church for MIA (I think it was that then, early 70's)

the leaders posted 2 pretty young ladies at the doors who 'Welcomed us to "Young Men's Young Women's" which was, of course, not announced or discussed by the participants beforehand...

Yup, that's the way they do things: a blatant, in-your-face disregard to the rank & file.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: scotchipman ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 11:19AM

This is what I posted on my Facebook page:

Interesting that the LDS Church is trying to distance themselves from the word Mormon. I'm sure many remember the church's national media campaign called "I'm a Mormon" they launched in 2010 that included TV spots, billboards and such. The ads referred people to the which for now the church still owns. Then in 2014 the church released their documentary film called "Meet the Mormons". I think that the LDS Church wants to distance themselves from the word Mormon because most of the information you find on the web these days about the LDS Church has the word Mormon in the domain. The LDS Church does not own or control most of these sites and they want control of the information for obvious reasons. Contrary to what the LDS Church would like their members to believe many of these site contain factual information that is very damaging to their narrative.

Would be great if some of you could comment on my page, I'm easy to find since I'm the only Scot with one "T" Chipman.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2018 11:20AM by scotchipman.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 03:40PM

On mormon(dot)com, which is still up and running and mentions nothing about Jesus being pissed when his people are called mormons, there is a section on forgiveness, and they even break it down to, among other things, forgiving yourself.

I hereby announce because of my age and my circumstances, I forgive myself, and demand the same of others, for calling members and former members of TCOJCOL-dS mormons. Jesus can put up with the annoyance a bit longer, n'cest pas?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Pooped ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 03:44PM

I'm going with "The church formerly known as Mormon". It's still less syllables and totally accurate.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: GQ Cannonball ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 04:30PM

It worked for Prince, lol! In all seriousness, "the church formerly known as Mormon" is the most succinct way for members to make the point. That really, really sucks for said members.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 08:25PM

Sure, when talking to each other when the context is clear, they probably can use Nelson's favorite labels and know what each other is talking about, but when talking to outsiders there are going to always be those moments when they see the puzzled look on the face of the person they're talking to...

"Which church?"

"Well, we USED TO be called the Mormon church."

"Oh, right...right. The Mormons...sure...I've heard of you guys."

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Gheco ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 09:32PM

I think Willie Nelson would give far better instructions than Russell.

Sometimes hard to believe they are brothers.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Let Go ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 10:05PM

When Nelson overlooks his kingdom, Mormon is not good enough. Not for him. It must have more nobility. It must remind everyone that he’s the king now. Not of the lowly Mormon church full of Mormons. No sir. The actual church of Jesus. The one and only. It commands respect. He’s better than all those other prophets who only led the Mormon church. Simpletons. It’s his kingdom now. What an ego. He’s just getting started. He’s waited a long time. Glad I’m out!!
He needs someone to walk behind him with clacking coconuts while he gallops lol

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 10:23PM

According to the Temple name Oracle, the super secret name "Mormon" was in use from 1/01/1965 to 6/25/1974 and then from 6/11/1983 to 1/12/1993.

Certainly, they keep their names, but do they feel at all ... inferior?

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In

Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
       **  **    **  ********   ********  **     ** 
       **  **   **   **     **     **     **     ** 
       **  **  **    **     **     **     **     ** 
       **  *****     ********      **     ********* 
 **    **  **  **    **     **     **     **     ** 
 **    **  **   **   **     **     **     **     ** 
  ******   **    **  ********      **     **     **