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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: October 15, 2018 08:15PM

It was the way we were raised. Not to be cynical, skeptical, or doubting of others motives. What a great asset to mold us into morgbots for TSCC.

That is still one of the hardest things I'm unlearning since leaving the cult. How to be wary, streetsmart, and savvy. Most of the time I pride myself on how far I've come.

Then comes the occasional curve ball. I arranged to purchase a used bike today that was outside a local grocery store last Friday to advertise it. It is an older Columbia bike in good condition, and the real appeal was the bike saddle that was vintage leather specialty seat to go with it.

So the guy meets me there today after work to bring me the bike. He had covered the seat with a plastic bag to keep the rain off, so he said (it was drizzly.) I didn't think anything of it, because I'd seen the condition it was in Friday. So we exchanged cash for bike. Loaded it into my car, and off I went.

It wasn't until later after getting home with it, that I took off the plastic bag, and then noticed he'd swapped the seat on me for a standard bike seat. The other one was really nice. This one, not so much. It was a classic bait and switch.

Since I paid cash, got no receipt, nothing in writing ... there really isn't much I can do except try not to be so trusting next time. I could have checked the seat at the parking lot before loading it up in my car. And yet I trusted him to do the right thing.

I know where he lives if I wanted to pursue it in small claims. But without proof of the sale or what he was advertising, it would likely be a waste of my time.

Why is hindsight always 20/20 vision? Just got a little more cynical today, without barely trying.

The bike works at least, for a vintage Columbia. I really do like it. So it isn't a total loss. I can always add a different seat down the road. But for now I'll try hitting the local bike trails before the Indian summer disappears.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2018 08:37PM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: October 15, 2018 11:16PM

Anyone can trust blindly. It takes courage to trust after being hurt or cheated. Don’t stop.

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Posted by: readwrite-now ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 02:26AM

It's human to be trusting, and then we get hurt, and then we do it again, and it happens again, and again, in different ways. Sometimes it's an accident but this person clearly lied to you to get more money/ to increase it's value, and keep the seat for himself (may be part of the next scam). Why don't we think, hmmm, let me investigate, and rip the bag off, and maybe his mask with it. Kick him in the seat.

Yea, for getting a bike, and riding!

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 05:07AM

I'm really sorry the jerk took advantage of you in that way, Amyjo. Karmic forces will probably eventually even the score, but meanwhile you're stuck with bike that doesn't have the seat that was originally displayed. I'm glad you're enjoying the bike anyway. Do be careful, please.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 05:46AM

I feel for you Amyjo. Although a nevermo, I spent much of my 20s and 30s being ripped off by salesmen because I was basically too nice and suffered from excessive empathy. I'm a much harder sell now (at 58 ;-).

Small mercy: I'm glad the object of the bait and switch wasn't too expensive.

Tom in Paris

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Posted by: Elyse ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 09:58AM

Since you know where he lives you could go there ( take someone with you ) and sweetly point out to him that there must be some mistake, the bike you bought had a different seat.

You may not get the seat back but at least you did something .

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 10:52AM

I did phone his cell a couple times after picking up the bike. Both calls went to voice mail.

I've decided to let it go. The blue book value for the bike is about par for what I gave for it, without the better seat. I'm still peeved that he got away with scamming me over that, but I'm going to let it pass (after sleeping on it.)

For him to pull that stunt like he did, he is a con artist. I've learned enough about them to know they are sociopaths. The less I have to do with him, the better.

My uncle is a con man. At age 79, his zebra stripes are set in stone. They don't change with time. They're vile people.

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Posted by: unconventional ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 04:52PM

Yes, and it’s so important to not let vile people charm you. Exmos are probably more susceptible to charm than other people are.

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Posted by: angela ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 07:53PM

unconventional Wrote:
> Exmos are probably more
> susceptible to charm than other people are.

You think so? I would say just the opposite, and I think this board supports that idea. :-)

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Posted by: presleynfactsrock ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 11:50AM

No for the rip-off, sorry for the bike seat loss, but yes! that you are pleased with the vintage bike and heading for some nice biking time enjoying Autumn in all its splendor.

I relate to jumping quickly into the trust scene due to perhaps both human nature and MormonCult training. Twice recently, fairly close together, I listened attentively to phone calls, one they claimed they represented the Apple company while the other the IRS, no less.

I did not give up info nor money, just time and my gullibility, feeling "stupid" and "taken" like I did when I was conned by a repeatedly by my narcissist, clever brother.

After the phone calls I felt disgusted with myself for a brief time, and then, I was able to step back and say, "Hells Bells, it is those shi**y swindlers who are only out for themselves I need to be more than disgusted with."

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2018 11:53AM by presleynfactsrock.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 11:54AM

I heard back from the bike seller this morning. After he slept on it and discussed it over with his girlfriend, he had a change of heart.

He's going to give me back the seat that was on it when I saw it last week. He told me his girlfriend liked it so much she asked him to swap it with her bike seat. So that's what he did. They're both Brooks seats, but vastly different in looks and style.

He said he wasn't trying to be deceptive at all. I accepted his apology at face value (what else to do at that point?)

Maybe he isn't such a con artist after all. Or at least he is one with a heart and a conscience.

He wants to make things right. Okay then, agreed. :)

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Posted by: ipo ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 01:16PM

A sociopath, often also a mythomaniac. Not to be trusted at all.

If he had been honest to begin with, and showed how he had switched the saddle, you could have made the decision to buy or not to buy.

Now he was less than honest. Not good.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 02:41PM

Thanks for the reality check. I figured he was just trying to save face. He may have figured on my not noticing that he'd switched them, or saying something. Until I did.

The seat he had on before was a key selling point to the bicycle.

He had to have known that.

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Posted by: angela ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 12:06PM

I think one of the reasons we can get caught is that we were taught to love unconditionally.

Ok, but that is not the same as trusting unconditionally. They are very different

Trust should be earned. Not everyone is trust worthy.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 12:14PM

A saying where I grew up in the Morridor was, "A person who won't trust, don't trust." Many people have been led astray by trusting the wrong sort, and then some. But when you grow up Mormon, that made perfect sense to be trusting. If we hadn't been so trusting, think how much harder it would have been to brainwash us and indoctrinate us? We were taught not to question authority.

Small wonder I rebelled as a teenager. Blind trust is woefully misplaced.

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Posted by: rubi123 ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 12:07PM

Buyer beware. A hard lesson to learn.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 12:14PM

Yes, exactly.

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Posted by: Elyse ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 04:06PM

Great, it worked out after all.

Get that seat FAST, before he has another change of heart.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 06:22PM

I did just that, lol.

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Posted by: PollyDee ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 05:33PM

Hope it works out for you, Amyjo, and you get what was advertised! Perhaps he's a standup kind of guy after all.

You should still be very wary and use critical thinking skills at all times. I got sucked into the vortex of a dishonest Ex-mormon I met right here on RFM. He presents himself as a very honest, upstanding guy, but he is, in fact, far from it! A lot of people here think he's wonderful and fawn all over him when he shows up. He owes me a lot of money, but I'll never see it! Neither will all the other "friends" and family that he has stolen money from. He also cheats on paying child support to his Ex. He ducked out of paying his taxes for years, declared bankruptcy, and had to negotiate a deal with the government to keep from being thrown in prison.

Don't ever let down your guard - I have learned that there is a very thin line between complete trust and utter stupidity!

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 06:22PM

Thanks all for your kind words of advice, support, and caution.

We met where I picked up the bike yesterday. He has fixed it by replacing the seat and restoring the original luster that won me over last Friday.

To him it was only a seat. He showed me the other seat he replaced it with. They have identical serial numbers, make/model, etc. But they nonetheless look distinctly different, and in a separate class by themselves.

He's a bicycle enthusiast, and has a collection of bikes he's kept over the years. They're all in very good condition. This bike has been very well cared for.

The difference between the seats is volumes. When I sat on the black seat yesterday it didn't have the same feel to it the one I sat on today does - the brown seat. The brown one is very comfortable. Was able to ride comfortably around the block with the cold wind blowing. It felt good! It was a good ride. :)

Yesterday I barely made it out of the driveway. The two seats didn't feel the same at all. He did mention that the older the seat gets when its a good quality like this one, they develop a hammock effect. That's how this one feels.

He was very nice and apologetic. I accepted. He's a school teacher. He seems honest enough.

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Posted by: angela ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 07:50PM

Pleased to hear that it all work out for you and that he made good on the transaction.

Says good things about him. Glad to hear he is a school teacher. We need his kind in our classrooms.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2018 07:51PM by angela.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 08:18PM

I've learned to never lend money that I can't afford (or want) to give away if it comes to that.

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 07:17PM

This might be strange but you need to watch more court shows :). I watch Judge Judy every weekday and when I can find her I have learned a lot from Judge Milian on People's Court. Sounds dumb but they have kept me from making some big, costly mistakes. Never let go of cash unless you have a receipt in the other hand. When it comes to money with family or friends ALWAYS handle it as if you were dealing with strangers. There can be ZERO changes to a written contract except IN that contract signed by both parties. Verbal changes don't mean spit. Never turn over car keys until the sale is 100% complete. Neighbors thought I was being a bitch to stick to this one when they insisted on buying our Pathfinder. Good thing I did because two days after the completed sale and turn over of keys their kid rolled it. If he had hit someone else, we could have been liable. I used Judge Milian's advice this summer about the cheap coming out expensive when I had to have some work done on the house this summer.

Learn about what can go wrong before it does go wrong is my motto!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2018 07:21PM by Susan I/S.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: October 16, 2018 08:22PM

Yup on the car sale. Insist on a cashier's check or cash, and make sure that you take the tags when the sale is complete (drive it to the other person's house, if need be.)

I love Judge Judy -- she is nobody's fool!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2018 08:22PM by summer.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: October 17, 2018 10:29AM

That was a close call, Susan I/S. I'll try to remember to watch more of those court shows. Haven't in a long time. Lately I've been glued to the Dateline and Investigaion Discovery channels for the "whodunnit" mysteries. When I don't have the time to sit through the entire show, I google it to find out how it ends. It's what I did as a kid when I read mystery novels. When I couldn't wait to read through an entire book first, I'd skip to the end and then read the middle.

It is important to be vigilant. Thanks for the reminder!


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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: October 17, 2018 07:18PM

Serious but silly question:

You worked in law enforcement as a protector of the consuming public, right? How did you avoid becoming jaded and untrusting?

Most people who are exposed to whatever scams are prevalent in their niche become just that, jaded and untrusting...

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: October 17, 2018 07:42PM

Working in law enforcement can't help but make someone more cynical than before. But it's also true that as a public servant not only being there to 'protect the public' and educate them from scams, there is also the knowledge that we ourselves can be susceptible to being trusting in the wrong measure. This wasn't a phone scam. It wasn't a counterfeit check in the mail. I was buying a bike for sale in the neighborhood. Hindsight being 20/20, I know that I should've tested the bike out and checked it when it was delivered to me before bringing it home. But it was a rainy day, and I'd already seen it. Therefore I was too trusting for my own good.

That aside, one of my mentors where I work, now deceased, used to tell me that (although she was a tough as nails attorney at work,) in her personal life she avoided lawsuits because she didn't want to be a litigious person in her private life - it would have been too consuming of her energy. She was a very positive person with a lot of positive energy (karma) she shared with those around her.

“When I was young, I used to admire intelligent people; as I grow older, I admire kind people.”

― Abraham Joshua Heschel

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Posted by: alaskawild ( )
Date: October 17, 2018 08:49PM

I learned long ago in buying any item of value; trust no one, do your due diligence as the common law says...buyer beware. It's on you to make sure everything is in order and as expected before you finish the transaction.

I am glad it all turned out well in the end. But people need to check their trust at the door when buying things.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: October 17, 2018 08:51PM

I'm glad it wasn't a used car.

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