I live in Salt Lake City and I know someone who is a senior executive in the church's financial department.

A couple weeks before general conference I ran into him and as we were making small talk, I figured I'd ask him if he thought the church would finally announce the two hour church schedule.

I actually asked in jest more as a joke just to keep the conversation rolling for a minute since I knew just about everyone was wondering the same thing (I haven't been active in 15 years and couldn't care less but find it funny and ironic at the same time that devout Mormon's who "love" the church so much actually can't stand going on Sunday's and are excited to only have to go for two hours instead of three, but that is neither here nor there).

Surprisingly he said, "as a matter of fact, I am 99% certain it is going to happen at this year's general conference. It's actually a financial decision. With a two hour church schedule, now they'll be able to share each church building with up to 4 wards, instead of 3 and this will save the church money by not having to keep building so many new buildings. It will also be very helpful in areas where activity rates are declining and wards are being combined."

As he explained this to me it made total sense. Of course this is a financial decision, it's always a financial decision since the church operates like a massive corporation. This isn't modern day revelation like so many devout members are being led to believe, it is just another move to protect the church's financial interests.

makes sense for ChurchCo, at least at first glance.

If this is accurate, they made financial projections & considered other factors also.

"Of course this is a financial decision, it's always a financial decision since the church operates like a massive corporation."

I suspected that this was a financial decision, and thanks for corroborating it.

Still...isn't it a fact that the church is losing its members? There would be no need to build more buildings, unless the membership is growing. Perhaps the birth-rate evens out the numbers. (After all, newborn infants are the Mormons' main source of fresh meat, er, members.

A "higher-up" relative of mine told me that the implementation of the 3-hour block was a financial decision, also. This was during the gas and power crisis, and LDS, Inc. didn't want to heat/AC their buildings twice a day for meetings, and again on Tuesday night for Young Women/Young Men, and again for Scouts, and for Relief Society Saturday work meetings and weekday luncheons. Also, they didn't like fueling the kitchen.

TSCC told members that the 3-hour block would "allow for more family time on Sundays". No one believed this was true, at all! All the meetings were crammed into that one day, including most home-teaching visits, and oddly-scheduled singles wards, and families had LESS time together, than ever before. Sundays were the days we would never see our whole family, and having a traditional Sunday dinner together was impossible to schedule, until late at night.

Now TSCC is using the same reason to CUT the 3-hour block down to 2 hours, to "hand over more of the religious training to families."

I agree that the decision was the same for both--purely monetary.

>>Still...isn't it a fact that the church is losing its members? There would be no need to build more buildings, unless the membership is growing.

It might in some cases be more a case of shifting demographics, where young families are not able to buy homes in certain established neighborhoods.

Also, heating and lighting the building on Tuesday afternoons for Primary was expensive. In California, our afternoon primary was right across the street from the elementary school, and we made a lot of converts, using Primary as bait. (Please forgive us for doing that!)

...yeah. The real reason was that each Ward/Branch was only allotted a two hour supply of shit paper...they were making the Aaronic Priesthood members make up the difference...........they wouldn't do it..

The thought occurred to me as well, since I know that when public schools cut back to four days a week, the decision is always financial -- in the schools' case, to save on heat and lights. It makes sense that the Mormon church would also want to cram more wards in to each building due to consolidations.

will probably be similar to that of the Washington D.C. Ward chapel.

http://ldspioneerarchitecture.blogspot.com/2016/03/washington-dc-ward.html

I remember visiting it as a kid, not long before ChurchCo sold it off to the Moonie cult.

As LDS buildings go, it was quite nice. I was surprised when they announced the sale. To a youngster like me it seemed odd that the mighty Church rolling forth into the world and growing like gangbusters somehow couldn't hang on to one of its symbolic, landmark buildings in the nation's capital.

I imagine there are literally dozens if not hundreds of ChurchCo chapels and properties that are going to be sold off in the decades ahead...and for hundreds of millions of dollars. And the members will probably have no idea where any of that money goes.

do. They'll just have ALL worship services done in members' homes on a rotating basis.

We actually did that in one of the small branches that I was in as a missionary.

The fully equipped ward buildings and stake centers will be sold off, except for a few that will turn into regional centers for just a few big activities per month or year, drawing people from small units throughout the region.

But, the important thing to keep in mind is that the General Authorities' stipends, pensions and other benefits will remain fully funded and solvent. I bet you were worried about that a lot.

Wally Prince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But, the important thing to keep in mind is that
> the General Authorities' stipends, pensions and
> other benefits will remain fully funded and
> solvent. I bet you were worried about that a lot.

Yes, what would Mormonism be without The Anointed?

If I remember correctly, the outside granite was shipped from the same quarry the Salt Lake Temple used.

Wally Prince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It will probably be similar to that of the Washington
> D.C. Ward chapel.

We used to drive our new-found Mormon girl-friends down to that lovely edifice of a Sunday.

It towered there on 16th Street DC, and we singles got well used to it and rarely missed a meeting. Then a local neighborhood that some called Madam's Organ turned to a hell-hole. The chapel-temple was quickly sold to the Moonies and we all retreated to Arlington.

I wondered what in Hell the square building next to our church was. Turns out it was, and still is, one of the gigantic holy shrines of bloody World Scottish-Rite Masonry.

Here, cheek-by-jowl with a former Mormon church, built like a temple, is a main pantheon of an atheistic secret club with marble lions guarding the door.

Mother and daughter together.

had no knowledge about Freemasonry or its connections to Mormonism or any of that. It would have made my visits to that chapel so much more interesting and thought provoking.

We know that nearly all of the handshakes, penalties, tokens, five points of fellowship were all copies virtually exactly into the Mormon temple rituals. Joseph Smith married Lucinda Morgan (widow of the Freemasonry whistleblower, William Morgan), Brigham Young proudly wore his masonic square-and-compass pin in formal portrait photographs. The temple garment symbolism is the square and compass.

And there they went and built one of their most prestigious chapels right next to a Masonic temple. Hard to figure the odds on that one.

The local stake center in my town is right next door to the Masonic temple; their properties abut and their driveways are so close that I've mistakenly turned into the temple entrance trying to get to the stake center (nope, not reverting to Mormonism. They have a nice, large empty parking lot that was perfect for teaching a friend to drive).

It was a lovely building as ward houses go. Across 16th street was All Souls Unitarian Church. Enjoyed those services much more.

Sad-to-hear-the-moonies-now-own-it-ly yrs,

S

If it is a financial decision then LD$ Inc. can save even more money by having ONE hour blocks.

Let’s look forward to the day of zero hour blocks!

nomonomo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let’s look forward to the day of zero hour
> blocks!

I already personally implemented that churchin' meeting schedule for myself back in 1995. It is a beautiful thing. The worst game in the NFL or NBA is still better (by far) than the best MORmON priestDUD meeting that I ever went to.

Nice to know how they work behind the scenes.

Thanks for an insider glimpse into their secret shenanigans.

It may translate to more "savings," not sure how that equals more revenue from the pockets of churchgoers.

The TSCC is all about money.

Yet, building temples carries on.

It’s always been up to families to teach spiritual things. Over 20 years ago, I complained to the bishop that I generally left church hearing nothing about God—-that Jesus’ name was only bookends of the meeting. He told told me that those were things I needed to learn on my own.

In Utah, it seems that there is a chapel at the entrance to most subdivisions. Seems subliminal and creepy.

You're spot on. Why, oh why, are they worried about certain building projects and so damn gung ho on others? A new multi-use property at the Mesa Arizona temple lot, literally dozens of new temples, either new or remodeling. 53 of the so-called "temple" properties either being built fresh (42) or remodeled in some fashion (11) and those remodels have a habit of being down to the foundation rebuilds.

I hope somebody cares enough to follow the money and find something funny.

I don't think there's just one reason. Cost, smaller buildings going forward, multiple use, less time for the dwindling membership to retain members and so on.

"but find it funny and ironic at the same time that devout Mormon's who "love" the church so much actually can't stand going on Sunday's and are excited to only have to go for two hours instead of three, but that is neither here nor there"

Bingo. The fact is that most, at least in Utah, don't love going to the wardhouse. I attended different churches throughout my life. Mostly Presbyterian, Methodist and non-denominational. I've tagged along with Catholic friends as well. One major difference is that most people wanted to be there. Everyone shows up 30+ minutes early to share coffee and pastries and catch up with each other. Here, in Utah, going to the wardhouse is like the start of a NASCAR race. All my neighbors wait until the last minute possible to get to church as not to be late, but also not have to spend 1 second there, more than necessary. They all fly out of their driveways and flood the streets with a caravan heading to the same place. It's crazy.

It may be mind numbingly boring but at the same time it is a badge of honor in the culture to be seen at church. Two hours is a great compromise.

I'm wondering if some decent cash will be made selling some less used buildings in the heart of large cities where land prices have skyrocketed since the buildings were built.

I can understand the financial angle but the church businesses and assets is more than enough to sustain the church for the next 2 or 3 decades even if not one more tithe check is sent in.

Because I say so!!!
And it is ALWAYS about the money!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2018 03:07PM by thedesertrat1.

Perhaps because the vast majority of Mormons already used the zero-hour block and a majority of the active Mormons were already on the two-hour, if not the one-hour, block.

Better to catch up with the members than to demand something that hasn't been realistic for 20 or 30 years.

In non-religious business, when a company starts cutting hours and closing locations, you know they're on their last legs.

I'm hoping the same applies to religious business...

But they're not cutting anyone's pay, so ...

True.
But they did lay off all the janitors...:)

I think this is spot on. The church does not want to build more meeting houses when the church has been stagnant for a decade and it looks like Christianity in general is shrinking.

Less meeting houses and more temples is the current church formula. It will be a church of temple recommends more than a church of basketball courts.

Rubi' says:

"...Less meeting houses and more temples is the current church formula."

Exactly:

You don't have to pay to enter a Ward House -- But you pay BIG TIME to enter a Temple!

Stan Howard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> general conference. It's actually a financial
> decision. With a two hour church schedule, now
> they'll be able to share each church building with
> up to 4 wards, instead of 3 and this will save the
> church money by not having to keep building so
> many new buildings. It will also be very helpful
> in areas where activity rates are declining and
> wards are being combined."

Here is the thing. LD$ inc does NOT want to consolidate wards.LD$ inc wants to maintain as many wards as possible to avoid the appearance of the reality that MORmONISM is imploding.
As well, More MORmON wards equal MORE MORmON leadership opportunities, for those dimwitted enough to take those callings.


The 2 hour block allows LD$ inc to run 4 wards per meeting house instead of 3. 4 wards needs 4 bishops instead of 3, so an additional Vanity calling set (bishoPrick .....and his counselors) is preserved to maintain the incentive for those remaining MORmON members who are interested in the playing the MORmON leadership derby for their personal validation.

Why get all dressed up for only two hours ?

I gotta stay at least ‘till my pantyhose roll down under my tummy!

I can see how squeezing 4 wards into a building will save them money, except that outside the Morridor, where are wards close enough that you could find a fourth to share a building? And what do you do with the building that ward is already in?

Also with shrinking wards, consolidation is not going to save them any money unless they empty one building out completely and sell it. I'm sure that will happen now and then, but I can't see it being a major change. Again, outside the Morridor, there aren't that many places that have that many wards in close proximity.

I'm sure it is partly about the money, but I think it is also about member boredom, and it lowers the number of callings needed to staff a ward, so they can limp along with slightly fewer people.

Members needed that hour to prepare for the others.

M@t

Hey, maybe they are shooting for an internet religion!! They'll set up a pay portal for every person, couple or family and no buildings will be necessary! Your personal contacts will be your 'home ministers' who will come by at least quarterly to make sure that appearances are being kept up. La iglesia mormona will become a 'check mark' religion...

Did you do this? Check!
Did you do that? Check!

One by one, the metrics are checked off, and then eventually you go to the Celestial Kingdom!

I have been saying for years the church is cash poor. Many of their for profit businesses lose money, in fact I would not be surprised if they were as leveraged as the government.

Two hour blocks make it less intrusive into members lives as well. Same reason subscription services are so profitable. As long as it is only a little annoying people will be to lazy to endure the pain of change.

But since they keep closing wards, do they really need the space?

TSCC is trying to get back in the black all white.

Anything to bail out the sinking ship.

It's all about freeing up the chapel and bathrooms for members to clean, free of charge, ASAP.

M@t