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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
It doesn't seem like Mormons talk much about the pre-existence anymore (or maybe I've just not been paying attention). I see on the Interweb that a remake movie based on the 1970's "Saturday's Warrior" musical was done in 2016 by the same guy(s) who did the 1970s original.
Like all Mormon stories that don't quite add up if you scrutinize them too hard, I guess you'll need massive doses of "Suspension of Disbelief" pills to be able to enjoy it.
One thing confused me years ago when "Saturday's Warrior" was all the rage and everyone was talking about how "the most valiant spirits were saved for the latter days" and "the children being born in these latter days were generals and mighty warriors in the war in heaven" and so on and so forth.
When you combine those notions with the "eternal family" sealings supposedly done in the temple, you get the weird result where the spirits who were the mightiest, greatest and bravest in the pre-existence are now sealed into very, very junior positions in eternal families--due to no other reason than birth order.
So, logically, you could get a deal where a grandpa ("Ned") in the "eternal family" was, as it turns out, just an average Joe for about 10 million years worth of pre-existence life. Ned's service in the war in heaven consisted mainly of working far behind the front lines picking up used angel darts and hauling them off to recycling long after the relevant battle was over. Turns out he was a screw up and often lost half or more of the used angel darts that he was supposed to deliver to recycling. He was just brave enough to get a birth spot in Utah. But barely that. His rank in God's army was equivalent to corporal.
But now, due to birth order, he's the automatic boss of his grandson Willy--like as in FOREVER! But then it turns out that Willy was one of the mightiest generals in the pre-existence and was second-in-command to Michael the Archangel. In fact, Willy was the general who came up with the winning strategy for defeating Beelzebub's finest battalion at the Battle of Foggy Sinkhole and this was a major turning point in the war.
So why would General Willy want to be sealed into an "eternal family" where he is now eternally subordinate to Corporal Ned?
Since this lifetime is like a blink of an eye compared to eternity, isn't it crazy to eternally lock in the temporary relationships established in this lifetime? Wouldn't it be like finding out in high school that you have to take orders from a guy named Claude just because he was once named Team Captain for a dodge ball game that you once played in kindergarten? Wouldn't it be crazy to find out that the team relationships established in that one dodge-ball game in kindergarten had become legally permanent?
Like all Mormon stories that don't quite add up if you scrutinize them too hard, I guess you'll need massive doses of "Suspension of Disbelief" pills to be able to enjoy it.
One thing confused me years ago when "Saturday's Warrior" was all the rage and everyone was talking about how "the most valiant spirits were saved for the latter days" and "the children being born in these latter days were generals and mighty warriors in the war in heaven" and so on and so forth.
When you combine those notions with the "eternal family" sealings supposedly done in the temple, you get the weird result where the spirits who were the mightiest, greatest and bravest in the pre-existence are now sealed into very, very junior positions in eternal families--due to no other reason than birth order.
So, logically, you could get a deal where a grandpa ("Ned") in the "eternal family" was, as it turns out, just an average Joe for about 10 million years worth of pre-existence life. Ned's service in the war in heaven consisted mainly of working far behind the front lines picking up used angel darts and hauling them off to recycling long after the relevant battle was over. Turns out he was a screw up and often lost half or more of the used angel darts that he was supposed to deliver to recycling. He was just brave enough to get a birth spot in Utah. But barely that. His rank in God's army was equivalent to corporal.
But now, due to birth order, he's the automatic boss of his grandson Willy--like as in FOREVER! But then it turns out that Willy was one of the mightiest generals in the pre-existence and was second-in-command to Michael the Archangel. In fact, Willy was the general who came up with the winning strategy for defeating Beelzebub's finest battalion at the Battle of Foggy Sinkhole and this was a major turning point in the war.
So why would General Willy want to be sealed into an "eternal family" where he is now eternally subordinate to Corporal Ned?
Since this lifetime is like a blink of an eye compared to eternity, isn't it crazy to eternally lock in the temporary relationships established in this lifetime? Wouldn't it be like finding out in high school that you have to take orders from a guy named Claude just because he was once named Team Captain for a dodge ball game that you once played in kindergarten? Wouldn't it be crazy to find out that the team relationships established in that one dodge-ball game in kindergarten had become legally permanent?
"My dearest Eliza,
The cold has taken its toll on me such that I fear I may never recover. I pray God sends me someplace warm when it comes time to take on mortal coil, like Aruba or Kenya.
The battles have been long and fierce. I have managed well, and am now second in command under Michael. We currently are engaged in the pursuit of a new maneuver, one which I hope will result in the utter defeat of our enemy forever and restore the great Union for which we strive and so many die.
We meet Beelzebub in battle on the morrow. This day will either bring his undoing, or ours. The name of Foggy Sinkhole will go down in history as a fit moniker to the victor regardless.
I did recently have some trouble with my new corporal, Ned. It seems he hasn't the sense to find the door in a one-room cabin if you pointed him at it and shoved. We have suffered greatly from a lack of recycled angel darts due solely to his incompetent behaviors. I sincerely hope the future doesn't entwine our fates together somehow.
Nevertheless, my spirits are high. If by some miracle we emerge victorious on the morrow, I will number the days until the visage of home appears on my horizon once more. And I will take glad vengeance in seeing our foes perish; I have a personal assurance from the Almighty himself that he would never pursue such a reckless course as setting them free upon the Earth to tempt the souls of men.
Yours ever,
Willy
Foggy Sinkhole
April, 15000000000 BCE"
The cold has taken its toll on me such that I fear I may never recover. I pray God sends me someplace warm when it comes time to take on mortal coil, like Aruba or Kenya.
The battles have been long and fierce. I have managed well, and am now second in command under Michael. We currently are engaged in the pursuit of a new maneuver, one which I hope will result in the utter defeat of our enemy forever and restore the great Union for which we strive and so many die.
We meet Beelzebub in battle on the morrow. This day will either bring his undoing, or ours. The name of Foggy Sinkhole will go down in history as a fit moniker to the victor regardless.
I did recently have some trouble with my new corporal, Ned. It seems he hasn't the sense to find the door in a one-room cabin if you pointed him at it and shoved. We have suffered greatly from a lack of recycled angel darts due solely to his incompetent behaviors. I sincerely hope the future doesn't entwine our fates together somehow.
Nevertheless, my spirits are high. If by some miracle we emerge victorious on the morrow, I will number the days until the visage of home appears on my horizon once more. And I will take glad vengeance in seeing our foes perish; I have a personal assurance from the Almighty himself that he would never pursue such a reckless course as setting them free upon the Earth to tempt the souls of men.
Yours ever,
Willy
Foggy Sinkhole
April, 15000000000 BCE"
I have two smaller stones that fit into my ears and are linked to my Stone of Gomer. I put them into my ears and I heard music as I was reading Willy's letter to Eliza. Sounded something like "Ashokan Farewell".
Now, just imagine Willy's awkward relationship with Grandpa Ned in the hereafter.
Willy's probably sealed to Eliza and complaining to her privately about all of Ned's stupid decisions: "But for some reason, he's the boss now in our patriarchal hierarchy as a fully sealed-together eternal family unit...and I just have to respect that... But...but...you know...it just...something's not right about this arrangement. It's just not right."
Now, just imagine Willy's awkward relationship with Grandpa Ned in the hereafter.
Willy's probably sealed to Eliza and complaining to her privately about all of Ned's stupid decisions: "But for some reason, he's the boss now in our patriarchal hierarchy as a fully sealed-together eternal family unit...and I just have to respect that... But...but...you know...it just...something's not right about this arrangement. It's just not right."
I was called to the hospital because a patient operated on earlier today looked like she would need to be opened up again. She's looking better but I need to remain here just in case. This thread is causing the nurses to think I've lost it. When I grabbed a cheap violin I keep in my locker and played through "Ashokan Farewell" they were ready to call for a straightjacket.
Thanks for keeping me awake.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2018 06:41AM by scmd1.
Thanks for keeping me awake.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2018 06:41AM by scmd1.
Saturday's Warrior, War in Heaven, Onward Christian Soldiers, etc. etc. etc.
What is it with religious people and their affinity for wars?
What is it with religious people and their affinity for wars?
people religious tall tales, you've got to put drama into the stories. Nothing provides more drama than wars and the, well, life-and-death drama that goes along with it.
The "war in heaven" is a weird one, though. A war between immortal spirits? I guess that's what Valhalla is supposed to be. The spirits can be temporarily killed, but then wake up and go back to glorious fighting again.
The Book of Mormon is a great example of gratuitously inserting wars and battles solely for dramatic effect. The wars and battles teach nothing, add nothing of spiritual depth and develop no philosophical lessons. About the only thing you get from the Book of Mormon wars is this: If God likes you, you win in war. If God doesn't like you, he'll let you lose.
The "war in heaven" is a weird one, though. A war between immortal spirits? I guess that's what Valhalla is supposed to be. The spirits can be temporarily killed, but then wake up and go back to glorious fighting again.
The Book of Mormon is a great example of gratuitously inserting wars and battles solely for dramatic effect. The wars and battles teach nothing, add nothing of spiritual depth and develop no philosophical lessons. About the only thing you get from the Book of Mormon wars is this: If God likes you, you win in war. If God doesn't like you, he'll let you lose.
I just had a revelation! Turns out Eliza wrote back.
"My dear Willy,
I was glad to hear the Battle of Foggy Sinkhole turned our way. Why don't you complain to one of your 13 million other wives about Ned?
Sincerely,
Eliza"
"My dear Willy,
I was glad to hear the Battle of Foggy Sinkhole turned our way. Why don't you complain to one of your 13 million other wives about Ned?
Sincerely,
Eliza"
I left about a year ago. But beforeI left the pre existence was still a very popular topic, not shyed away from the least.