So now the church has said they are putting the nix on pageants. I never went, but I hear it was a fun festival type atmosphere, entertaining, etc.

They are getting rid of scouts. One of the few fun things boys regularly get to do.

They don't have the roadshows anymore.

They discourage handing out treats or playing games in primary class.

I was there when they switched from nursery being fun time for babies and toddlers to play with toys, to a regimented classroom where the kids had to sit still and listen to lessons.

Its as if there is anything enjoyable about the church, then they want to squash it. It doesn't make sense to me. Why get rid of something that helps draw people to your organization.

Are there other examples of fun things the church is cutting out? Why would they do this?

...and they've been there too long. You want them to go, but you don't want to seem too rude. So you start making it less enjoyable for them to be there.

You stop making refreshments available. "Oh my! Look at that! The sandwiches are all gone. The ice is gone."

You quietly go and turn down the heat so it starts getting uncomfortably cold. "Oh dang! Looks like the heating is on the blink again. It'll take another week to get someone in here to fix it."

You pretend like there's been an accident in the bathroom and nobody can use it. You lock the door and put a big "Out of Order" sign on it.

Gradually, they get the hint or...at least they lose any desire to stay around and start leaving.

I'm starting to wonder if the leaders have just decided to shut the whole thing down, but don't want it to be a big, noisy affair full of recriminations and loud arguments. They just want the ordinary members to take the hint and start leaving on their own accord. Most of the top leaders are probably above average in intelligence. Plus they've been on the inside for years. They know better than anyone that the Church is not and never was what it was claimed to be.

A while back, they published the "essays" which essentially was a formal admission that many of the key arguments made by "anti-Mormons" for nearly a century or more...were actually factually based.

They've been cutting corners, economizing and getting rid of the few programs that historically made the organization seem like a community capable of offering a constructive and enjoyable social life.

The natural, human content had to be replaced by corporate messaging. Funerals had to stop being about the deceased loved on and be more about promoting the corporate church.

They probably see that the expiration date on the corporation's ability to continue masquerading as a spirituality-enhancing religion is fast approaching. There literally is no reason to make much effort or investment in keeping the few aspects of it that made it something that families wanted to be part of.

If they can get enough of the current members to just fade away, then they can get down to the real business at hand, i.e. funneling all of the wealth owned by the Church, through its corporate entities, into the "proper" pockets of the top dogs.

At the very top, they are not personally inviting you. It's the rank and file who end up doing the inviting. But at the end of the day, they're inviting you to a party that is increasingly uninviting and unfun.

"Hey, we're partying over at Joe's place. Why don't you come over too? Sure! It'll be great. But bring a sweater. Some kind of problem with the heater. And the toilet here is out of order, so make sure you go before you come over. Oh, and the ice and drinks have run out and there are no more sandwiches, so you should bring some, if you have any. But the owner will take them from you and redistribute them. And...."

Back in the 70s when I joined (age 16), churchco was fun. I had moved in the middle of high school and didn't have any friends, so church was perfect for me.

Ahhh, the roadshows, dance festival at the Rose Bowl, scripture chase competitions, speech festival, REAL youth conferences where you actually left the building and spent the night somewhere.

Haunted houses, trick or treating, hay rides, Christmas caroling to the stake president's house, bake sales, boutiques, fall festival...

I could go on, but what's the point? It got me through a tough period of a teenager's life, but it also screwed me up. "Get married and have a family" they said. But after that- what?

Women hardly worked outside the home and if they did, they were evil. Career? What the hell is that? To do things over, I don't know what I would do. Luckily I've made it to 60, left church 7 or 8 (whatever lost count) years ago.

"The church" sure has changed from my teenage years. I really don't understand why anyone would "convert" nowadays.

Waxing poetic Dennis

It almost seemed like some weird comedy routine. Everyone shuffles into a meeting, spends the whole time looking at their shoes, until it's their turn to read aloud some portion of a mass-produced "official" lesson manual. Then they go back to looking at their shoes. That was Sunday School.

Then sacrament meeting. Basically the same format that it was 30 years ago, but with less interesting talks (as incredible as that may seem). Coughing. Crying babies. Someone basically giving a talk that involves reading aloud from the official lesson manual...and then a few personal anecdotes that don't mean anything. "So, then as I sat there waiting for the aluminum siding salesman to leave, I remembered to offer a kind word, just as President Monson counseled, so I said, I said...what I said...was 'you have a good day now!' and that made me feel good because I did what the prophet said we should do."

Now that they're scrapping everything else, those sad little core meetings are all that they have left. Everything else is just an extended "Family Home Evening" program, where the most devout member of the family is begging everyone else to gather round the kitchen table to hear him/her read from the Book of Mormon or something.

That is the church I remember - I wasn't a member, but went to everything with my TBM friend and her family because it was FUN!

Stake Dances, going to the mountains to play in the snow, Roadshows - LOVED Roadshows! Sports - do they still have ward teams that played other wards?

This is how you got youth into the building and their parents! My parents came to everything to see me play basketball or perform!

Thankfully we never joined, but I was involved in the church all the way through college because it was FUN!

were not overbearingly religious in content. Just activities that you could enjoy in a relatively safe, wholesome environment.

I remember there would be a lot of banquet events involving cooking in the kitchen, combined with pot-luck bring-ins.

I vaguely even remember something called the "Gold and Green Balls." (They were quite elaborate dance festivals, IIRC. They were just being phased out when I was coming of age, so I actually never participated in one. But I remember older members being quite enthused about them.)

Last time I visited Mormon relatives, I went to some cold event in the ward building. Someone brought refreshments and, among the refreshments was something they wanted to heat up. But they were told that the kitchen was off limits because the Church was saving money on insurance and one of the cost-saving clauses in the policy was a prohibition against using stoves and such in the kitchen.

It's pathetic. People pay and pay and pay into the beast....and all the beast does is work overtime figuring out how to give back as little as possible. But there's always ample funds to invest in projects that will enrich the friends and relatives of the top leaders.

Oh Dennis, I feel you pain, brother. I use to be among the ones your in with. I remember that Rose Bowl dance festival. Correlation would soon kill that type of thing. David O McKay was gone 4 years by then...the lights were going out.

I still have scars from Southeast Asia, but no different from a sonar operator in your Uncle's canoe club.

So whose fault is it? For 50 years we nodded our heads and said yes. We gave control to those that believed their own bull hips. Thinking for myself cost me my family when I joined the church in SoCal, similar to you. Later, it cost me my family when I could not measure up orthodox enough.

I always love Demi Moore in Sonny and Cher...I'm heartbroken and so lonesome I could cry!

LD$ Inc is a vampire that sucks the life out of you.

Maybe the Q15 live so long because they’re soul-sucking ghouls. Hey, it’s Halloween.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LD$ Inc is a vampire that sucks the life out of
> you

....and ALL the joy out of everything /life.

They should come to RfM. It’s way more fun.

And it came to pass in the first year of the reign of King Nelson, the last remnants of anything fun were cast out from the church.

We don't need no steenkin' fun! We need sacrifice, dedication and commitment!

Fun seekers are puked upon by God. Fun seekers easily become the Devil's playthings.

If you're having fun, you're doing something wrong. Perhaps you're not paying enough tithing. Perhaps you're not going to the temple. Perhaps you're not fasting and praying. Perhaps you're not volunteering to clean the toilets often enough. Perhaps you like tapping your feet to the rhythm of some Satan-inspired music.

Fun is the sure sign of impurity. Some people think that it's fun to say the word "Mormon." Mor~mon equals more fun. Nothing could be more offensive to the Savior, our God and Lord of all creation!

I, the Nelson, spit on fun and everything it stands for. I despise it and flush it down the nearest toilet. I hold it in disdain and blow my nose on it. I am contemptuous of it and smear my ear wax all over it and then burn it with fire! I hate it and have my dog pee on it!

Golly, The Nelson, are you sure you're eating enough bran muffins and prunes?

...so he lives long enough to drive as many people out of the church as possible.

Decades ago, the Mormon church was less centralized. The Bishop controlled his ward's money and policies for the most part. He controlled how the church building was used. Now the Bishops send all money in to the church headquarters, who pays the local church's bills. The Bishops have little or no say about how their church building is used. The leaders in Salt Lake control everything. They say "no" to everything because each ward is just a far-off source of potential liability for them and their financial empire. The greedy bastards who run the church in Salt Lake are responsible for taking away all of the fun.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2018 09:57AM by azsteve.

What do mean greedy? When Nelson went to Nigeria, of all the things he could have talked about, he advised members how to increase their wealth.

If you plan anything for fun, do it on your own dime!

kilgravmaga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So now the church has said they are putting the
> nix on pageants. I never went, but I hear it was
> a fun festival type atmosphere, entertaining, etc.
>
>
> They are getting rid of scouts. One of the few fun
> things boys regularly get to do.
>
> They don't have the roadshows anymore.
>
> They discourage handing out treats or playing
> games in primary class.
>
> I was there when they switched from nursery being
> fun time for babies and toddlers to play with
> toys, to a regimented classroom where the kids had
> to sit still and listen to lessons.
>
> Its as if there is anything enjoyable about the
> church, then they want to squash it. It doesn't
> make sense to me. Why get rid of something that
> helps draw people to your organization.
>
> Are there other examples of fun things the church
> is cutting out? Why would they do this?

It is the further exercise of the "BITE MIND CONTROL SYSTEM"
1. B ehavior control
2. I nformation control
3. T hought control
4. E motion control
These four items when controlled by an "other" give slave species control to the controller over the controlled.

That Nelson guy's face screams curmudgeon sourpuss to me. I suspect he doesn't value anything that might involve enjoyment.


Probably enjoyment to him means tears at testimony meeting and a good bowel movement.

“We’ll change the Mormon church today, Pinky, and tomorrow the world!”

Nelson reminds me of Jeff Dunham's "Walter" character.

They are becoming Satanized...

"Give me control, Father, and I will go down and I will see to it that not one soul is lost, and then the glory will be mine."


It is, of course, noted that I do not believe in any of the supposed pre-mortal drama the above represents. But all who succeed in the church have to represent that they do believe in it, and it may well be that they do! It's their job, for which they are well paid, to get us all back to heaven, whether we like it or not.

I guess I'll have to listen to some Bach, to get rid of the discussion between Satan and Jesus. "Give all the glory to me..."

Even though everybody is a volunteer, pageants cost money.

LDS Leaders are old. The current leadership represents the post-WW2 generation known as "the Silent Generation." This generation is noted for its adherence to rules and organization. It is a bland and boring generation that never held political power as the WW2 Generation - the Greatest Generation - and the Baby Boomer Generation were both larger and squeezed them out of national leadership.

The Mormon church will become increasingly petty and bureaucratic as this generation manages its affairs. They are particularly noted for wanting to keep women in the home, as they replaced the women who temporarily joined the workforce in WW2. They are insecure in their place in the world, having been in the shadow of the WW2 veterans and offended by the noise of the 1960s.

This generation believes in conformity, authority, and rules with a very defined sense of right and wrong and insists on Loyalty and respect for authority.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2018 12:10PM by unabashed.

Then their goose is cooked. The system is set up to breed new Mormons, the only source of replenishment left. It only works with eggs and sperm. The sperm is taking a hike at the same time the eggs are forced to accept only RM temple worthy sperm.

The few times I've been in a ward building, the large room where receptions for weddings and funerals are held there's always basketball equipment, hoops backboard etc.

Are there any organized activity like intramural basketball games, leagues etc.?

Many churches have full playgrounds with swings, slides and jungle jims. They also have paints, clay, and musical instruments for kiddies to explore. These churches are in session for only an hour and they have multiples of what mormons have in the way of fun activities and materials.

The mormon program consists of "sit still, be quiet, don't think, just act like a plaster doll until we let you go home.

But are any of these resources being used by members for recreational reasons?

From the general tone of RFM, the wards are used only for services and are locked up the rest of the time.

They had tournaments way back in the day when I was active. I don't know if they still do that in any well-organized way. I've seen them in recent years use the basketball courts as a draw to get young boys into the church, so I guess they have something going on.

I know that they started cutting back on a lot of things that potentially exposed the church to legal liability. Things that they previously had some form of insurance against, but subsequently decided to cut out when they could get cheaper insurance as a result.

Church-sponsored sports activities would possibly fall into such risky category. Less formal games where missionaries just invites someone over for an informal game of B-ball would probably have less exposure.

They ran their own Life Insurance company, after all, so they have suffucuent assets and risk management people.

So if they say something like "our insurance no longer allows us to do something fun", they are really saying that the LDS, Inc Risk Management Department is running the ward.

> So if they say something like
> "our insurance no longer allows
> us to do something fun", they
> are really saying that the LDS,
> Inc Risk Management Department
> is running the ward.

Beneficial Life, which apparently only exists at this point to support policies still in existence, is a tiny shell of what it used to be. The word on the street, which I heard here on RfM, is that in early 2008 someone high in authority with Deseret Management, the owner of Beneficial Life, invested 680 million dollars in mortgage-backed securities and then later in the year, the church had to bail out the company, when those pieces of paper turned out to be worthless. Wholly McGhost really blew it, not only for his very own church but for a lot of practicing mormons in 2008!

As a life insurance company, they would not have had any particular expertise in property & casualty insurance. But I do think it's definitely possible that the church self-insured for prop & casualty; I just don't know that for sure.

It's hard to imagine that the pay-outs occasioned by the church's intramural 'fun' activities came anywhere close to the pay-outs occasioned by scouting activities and claims based on adults molesting children.

Fun costs money, and doesn't bring any money in.

So out it goes.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fun costs money, and doesn't bring any money in.
>
> So out it goes.

AMEN AMEN AMEN

When I was an active TBM, I spent my birthday evening one year helping the YW create some scenery for an upcoming roadshow. Even then, I was thinking what am I doing here?? Ahh, the memories.

kilgravmaga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So now the church has said they are putting the
> nix on pageants. I never went, but I hear it was
> a fun festival type atmosphere, entertaining, etc.
>
>
> They are getting rid of scouts. One of the few fun
> things boys regularly get to do.
>
> They don't have the roadshows anymore.
>
> They discourage handing out treats or playing
> games in primary class.
>
> I was there when they switched from nursery being
> fun time for babies and toddlers to play with
> toys, to a regimented classroom where the kids had
> to sit still and listen to lessons.
>
> Its as if there is anything enjoyable about the
> church, then they want to squash it. It doesn't
> make sense to me. Why get rid of something that
> helps draw people to your organization.
>
> Are there other examples of fun things the church
> is cutting out? Why would they do this?

The church is not there for fun. It is there for Obey Pray Pay .

They can keep this new arrangement. When I joined the church in Louisiana, in 1987 (I think), it was delightful. I was in a very vulnerable place in my life just then, and the people in that Cajun ward were marvelous new friends.

I can remember having a party for LDS friends at my house, and thinking how different it was from having a party for my Ex's corporate co-workers. There were no cigarette burns on my coffee table, and no drunks vomiting in the bathrooms. Everybody brought appetizers to share; we had only non-alcoholic beverages, there was no dress code to speak of (heck, it was MY house, and as I recall, I wore jeans, a cute tee shirt with a cat design of some sort on it, and probably was barefoot.

In that ward, everybody was like extended family.

That was before Correlation. I have often thought that if I had not moved to New Mexico (where everyone seemed to have starch in their garmies), I might still be an active member.

I remember telling my mother about the various activities we had at any given time. She (ever the cynic) commented, "They keep you so da_n busy, you don't have time for sinning."

The church I was baptized into was a great place. The church I resigned from was not.

There are some Mormon leaders who think fun is anathema to them.

They think everyone should be serious all the time.

A stake presidency member banned dances for young people. He reasoned that young people who had not gone on a mission should be concentrating on preparing themselves for a mission and not wasting time going to dances.

And that young people who had been on missions should be preparing themselves to get married and have children and not wasting their time attending dances.

He said that to me, so it is not hearsay.

The church used to be more hardcore so I have heard and they have watered many things down.
The Mormon (aka LDS) Church removed the "penalties" from the endowment ceremony in April, 1990. In addition to pantomiming their own disembowelment, all participants would also draw their right thumb across their own throat in a slitting motion

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2002/02/adoption-and-the-unwed-mother?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/church/news/lds-family-services-no-longer-operating-as-adoption-agency?lang=eng

It seams to me that lds ink is loosing power over its members and now is saving money by not hiring janitors. The average lds family has gotten smaller. The average age at marriage has gotten older. More men are coming home from missions early. Before a missionary would leave on a mission there used to be a big celebration for him/her they stopped that too. The building of the many mini temples is another way to try to keep the members active and to pay tithing.

In my opinion they need to start the indoctrination early in nursery because as children start getting older they could start thinking for them selves so they need to get them early. They mission age got reduced from age 19 to age 18 to make sure they don't loose anyone during that one year in college.

Guilt probably brings in more tithing money than fun. So let's increase the guilt :)

With the internet they need to teach "their truth" before members hear the other things. Dances and fun things don't protect them from the outside world. But they have EFY.

Seems to me that Nelson has lost his mind.

They got KICKED OUT of scouts and so they KICKED the LDScouts out, and the BSA [Bruised Scouts of Atmosphere], with it.
It WAS one of the few (only?!?) fun/ different/ "exciting" [even in mormon boy terms] things boys regularly [HAD] to do.

The roadshows were told to hit the road. They couldn't pay the bills and offered too many thrills. They went NO FRILLS... and NO MORE free-agency. God didn't take it away. Mormonism did!

Mormon (in-betweens) [mis]"leaders" discourage 'living' in primary preaching practice and indoctrination "class"
Sunday School kids must have a called babysitter to teach the youth to worship (J.S., Jr.) LDS hierarchy instead of life itself

ALL "saints" have to sit still and [fake] (try to) listen [with headphones in] to attempt to understand the impulsive and demanding commands (from man) and repulsive
"lessons" [heaps of useless and forced drivel/ 'information'/ crap/ lies/ redundancies], young, old, and in between. WAIT, where is everybody in between.
So, little children, learn to SIT STILL, because you'll have to endure this [SHIfT] for 70-90 LONG and boring years, until you die, and then, forever!

If anything is enjoyable about the church, they want to squash it. Why get rid of something that helps draw people to your [dis]organization?

Are there other examples of fun (that is subjective) things the church is cutting out? Why would they do this?

To make one another feel bad, as they themselves do
That the "work" isn't going forward
That youth know more then them
About their own 'church'
And it's despicable [mis]leaders
And real and TRUE church history

Boiled down, the ones who are running the 'church' [into the ground, as it walks itself there anyway] are AFRAID, mislead, afflicted, conflicted, mad, jealous, and confused, not to mention lost.

M@t

If the church simply made coffee available or added a coffee bar they could have people in the building for hours chatting and discussing all kinds of things.

Almost everything that was unique to mormonism has been cut or altered from original form.