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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: November 01, 2018 07:24AM

Eerily similar and familiar -- just like those who crossed the Atlantic to join Joseph Smith's cult

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46039014

Koresh became infamous as the self-styled prophet who thought he was the new Christ.

His followers were in thrall to him, and remarkably, 30 of them were British. Only six of them survived.

They came from the streets of Manchester, London and Nottingham - outwardly ordinary young people in their 20s and 30s.

History has largely forgotten them. These are their stories.

Bernadette Monbelly was well liked at work, as a training supervisor in a bank. A vibrant young woman enjoying the social life and clubs of 1980s London.

One day a leaflet came through the sisters' door - it was an invitation to the local Seventh Day Adventist Church, where many of the congregation, like Gail and Bernadette, were either first or second Windrush generation. Gail and Bernadette both took up the offer.

Bernadette fell in with a group preaching radical Christian theology in their own small circle, away from the main church services - and there was talk of a man in Texas who knew the secrets of the final judgement day.

Bernadette hadn't been feeling right - her health had taken a downward turn, and as her sister remembers, it lowered her guard enough for their influence to overtake her.

"These people started enveloping her. They were always at her place, day and night. And I told her, 'Bernadette who are these people?' And she said 'They're helping me'. And that was when the paths started to separate."

The man in Texas they were referring to was David Koresh. The reason they were talking about him was that he had actually visited England with his right-hand man - scouting for members who would join his budding sect.

A prophet on campus
It's understood that David Koresh came to England around 1988 along with his trusted lieutenant - a man called Steve Schneider.

They sought a fertile recruiting ground for their message of the imminent coming of the apocalypse, or "Revelation" as it is depicted in the Bible.

Koresh himself had been rejected from the Seventh Day Adventist Church in Texas. So he knew that his starting point in England would be there.

He gave talks at a Seventh Day Adventist college in Berkshire called Newbold, without permission, and kept his identity a secret from its staff.

It was there that three students had their lives changed forever.

From there, the power of Koresh's message on their minds would ripple out to families across England.

The Manchester connection
At the time, one of these students was dating a Manchester girl called Diana Henry.

She was from a large family of five brothers and sisters; her father was a bricklayer in Old Trafford.


Diana Henry's boyfriend told her about Koresh's teachings
Diana had just finished her degree in psychology when her boyfriend sold her Koresh's message of a utopian life at his Texas commune.

As her father Sam remembers: "Her boyfriend wasn't a flippant lad, he was a serious lad. And so she thought well, if that's what he says, it's got to be right. She was hooked. She dropped her studies and would have followed this man anywhere."

Diana would make several visits to Waco, slipping away during term time to meet David Koresh without her father's knowledge, before coming back to Manchester one last time.

Sam remembers how on that occasion she became instrumental in spreading Koresh's message herself.

She organised meetings in a semi-detached house in a Manchester suburb called Cheetham Hill at which dozens of young people attended.

Koresh's lieutenant was there, giving a charismatic talk, and saying "he needed to take his instructions from God".

He was talking, of course, about Koresh.

A local Seventh Day Adventist elder, George Taylor, recalls being at the clandestine meetings.


George Taylor remembers going to meetings in north Manchester
"I remember turning to my wife and saying: 'This is strange. This is not right.'"

His wife, Dimplets, recalls a packed room.

"There were people standing, sitting on window ledges, in corners, and they were about an urgent business. And when I tried to interrupt the speaker to ask questions, they were like 'Woooah! Why are you challenging this man?'"


Dimplets Taylor says she remembers people packing into meetings to hear Koresh's representative speak
George Taylor saw what was happening to Sam's daughter Diana. He tried to change her mind - to stop her from being seduced into the would-be prophet's message.

His pleas fell on deaf ears.

In time, Sam Henry would make a frantic journey to Waco to try and convince her to return. There he confronted David Koresh himself: "He tried to convince ME to stay there as well. He said come here - the authorities will never find you. He tried everything.

"I said we must leave, you must leave this place! But she didn't listen. None of them listened."

Sam had to return to Britain without his daughter.

But worse was to come. Diana had in fact convinced her mother and four siblings to also leave their father and journey to join her at the commune in Waco, not long after.

None of his family would return alive.


The cult spreads in Britain

Back in Britain - in Nottingham - Devon Elliott was trying to talk his sister out of going over to Waco.

A cheerful, gentle man in his mid-50s, one would never assume that he more than many others suffered the most terrible pain of Waco.

"I lost my sister, her fiance, my auntie, my cousin-in-law, and a very close friend."

They had each been entranced by Koresh's message at Newbold College.

Devon Elliot says he would have cut up his sister's passport if he'd known her plans
Devon remembers his sister Beverly's wonderful singing voice and sense of fun. '"I wish I had recorded her singing years ago," he says.

"Some people from London had come up to Nottingham, trying to have meetings, chats. Obviously they'd got wind of some theology which wasn't really sound. But it was just like me going to my mates to watch the football - nobody really looked into it any.

"In hindsight, if I knew she was going to go, I would have cut her passport up. I would have," he remembers. He didn't know that she really meant to carry out her plan.

Instead, he had to watch on helplessly as communication with the cult commune was lost; how the FBI eventually surrounded the building, fearful of Koresh's stockpile of weapons; and how a growing sense of unease would become a national - and international - tragedy.


"To me this was like being in a film. My life became all about just watching this white building. And at one moment you just see it all crash. And I'm thinking… my sister's in there. My aunty is in there. People that I love dearly are in there," Devon says.

A prophet's offer
Koresh's offer to the Britons was a seductive one.

They'd mainly come from traditions well versed in the Bible. So he was pushing at an open door.

The Revelation, or the Biblical description of the apocalypse, was at hand, he said.

He'd convinced them that he was the next messiah - one sent by God to lead those righteous souls that would be saved, and that would taste eternal life.

He told the Britons that they would be among them. That they should go to lead a frugal life of prayer at his Texas ranch, preparing for the imminent end of days.

What he didn't tell them is that his version of the apocalypse would be armed with a massive stockpile of guns and ammunition - and that he was a serial sexual predator.

Their 'End Of Days'
The FBI's attempt to release the cult members ended in a horrific fireball.

The weeks-long siege attracted crowds to the surrounding area
In a matter of minutes, 72 people died. Twenty-four were British. They had left cities and towns seeking a simple life, fulfilling Biblical prophecy.

"The 'wackos of Waco' were like you and me" says Gail Monbelly as she remembers her sister Bernadette. She wants people to reconsider the memory of the 30 Britons who went there.

As a senior British detective who investigated Waco also remembers, "the problem is that they were all tarred with the same brush. And that was quite wrong. Responsibility for what happened at Waco lies with one man only. And that is David Koresh."

The stories of the Britons of Waco and their entrapment by Koresh is told in a new BBC Radio 5 Live Podcast, 'End Of Days' - available now on BBC Sounds.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: November 01, 2018 08:34AM

Thanks Anybody, I haven't finished it yet, but this is fascinating.

Great find.

Tom in Paris

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 01, 2018 09:43AM

Koresh was the devil incarnate.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: November 01, 2018 09:59AM

The fruits of religion

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: November 01, 2018 10:36AM

All of this religion thing reminds me of an overhang I have on the house that is covered in frosted plexiglass so that the diffused light comes through. At the end of the day it attracts many butterflies who land on the support beams facing the light and just stay until they die. I've tried to shoo them but they won't go. I pick the pretty ones up and prop them up on my orchids. They look alive.

Religion sells diffused light. Not just the cultists who will have you burn with them in a compound, drink Kool-aid in a jungle, or have you cross the plains too late in the winter for their own selfish purposes.

It takes two to tango. These wanted to believe for various reasons. It is easy to call it being duped but I dare say it is much more than that. "Pushing at an open door" as you say isn't just the Bible prep. The door can be pushed both ways and it is already open because the person wants something more or something besides what they have--which they find inferior, lacking.

Of all the negatives we can assign to Joseph Smith, it must be admitted that he had a charisma. Koresh had a charisma. Diffused lighting. You aren't clear as to what it is but you want it.

I like a nice Kleig myself, right in the face.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: November 01, 2018 11:24AM

David Koresh has quit smoking...

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Posted by: Felix ( )
Date: November 03, 2018 03:12AM

This thread got me interested in exploring similarities between D. Koresh and J. Smith. I watched a few documentaries on D. Koresh and found many. They both dissolved marriages and pursued the women they wanted, demanded secrecy, convinced their followers that god was directing the group through revelation to him and demanded strict obedience.

I found this----> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIDBvD3kGKg

This prompted a 3 hr marathon watching documentaries about various cult groups. I'm always amazed at the similarities they have in common. There is some good and bad in all of them but none of them are the "Truth" they claim to be nor can they deliver on their promises.

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