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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 08, 2018 12:30PM

Someone forgot to tell the asshats that's running the show from SLC, issuing those temple recommends.

What a con that is/was/has always been.

Love is blind. Mormon love is blinder.

There aren't too many Mormon "marriages of convenience" that come to mind. Russ Nelson and Wendy Dew are but one of them. That was a marriage of economy over love, or a match made in Mormon, now non-Mormon heaven.

What are the two biggies that break apart marriages? I've been told they are sex and finances.

Without lovin' and covering the barest of expenses or at least agreeing on what gets covered and when, even Mormon marriages are not divorce proof. It's a nasty delusion to teach that they're forever when they're not. It's even uglier when you may be hitched to an abusive mate who is not what their spouse signed up for when they sealed the deal.

Reality check time, marriage is fine as an institution when it works between two partners. Pretending it's something other than it is is child's play; not between grownups. TSCC does a terrible disservice to its cultish members by indoctrinating them and hardwiring them to believing they're stuck to someone for time and all eternity when they're in a horrible, abusive marriage that they need to escape from.

You really don't get that kind of counsel from church leaders, when they're more interested in protecting the status quo at all costs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2018 12:30PM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: November 08, 2018 02:02PM

I've heard that "porn" is another reason temple marriages fall apart.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: November 08, 2018 02:20PM

messygoop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've heard that "porn" is another reason temple
> marriages fall apart.

Sure, but porn only comes into it when there's no sex (or no good sex), and hubby can't sneak away enough money to have a mistress...so it IS sex and money!

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: November 08, 2018 02:51PM

They are *forever*... as long as you are giving ´the church´ money [forever].

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 08, 2018 04:02PM

Perhaps another reason why the lottery isn't legal in Utah? It would drain money away from tithes and offerings?

What the church might really 'profit' by is starting a lottery. Then its revenue would generate billions upon billions!

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 08, 2018 06:32PM

It's "forever" until you get divorced, or until your spouse dies and you remarry, because that evidently doesn't count.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 08, 2018 10:50PM

A temple divorce is way harder to obtain than a temple marriage is.

The old scriptural saying "whatsoever is bound on earth shall be bound in heaven. And whatsoever ye loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven," takes civil divorces more seriously (and marriages,) than temple ceremonies and vows.

I know when my parents died they both sent me signs, and so did their spouses that after they crossed over, they were with their subsequent spouses on the other side. My parents didn't bother getting a temple divorce, it was too much trouble. By the time they both remarried they had gone inactive and each remarried to jack Mormons.

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: November 08, 2018 11:01PM

well MORmON temple marriages certainly are NOT eternal, because eternal means WITH OUT ending or BEGINNING !!!! Joe Smith already got hit with that technicality and already issued a/ his BS MORmON excuse response.

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Posted by: Free Man ( )
Date: November 08, 2018 11:11PM

I've seen forever marriages busted up among relatives. Nephew's wife left because he couldn't provide the affluent lifestyle she grew up in. Same with wife of my cousin.

I keep asking how they could get away with that, without disciplinary action or shame, but have gotten not good answer.

Apparently if porn wasn't involved, anything goes.

It isn't just the church that promotes the marriage scam - it is all of society. I talk to non-mo guys at work who have been bamboozled. One guy mentioned his brother was shopping at Walmart last night. After working all day, came home and wife who was home all day reading novels hadn't gone shopping, so nothing to eat. Her excuse was that she was about to do laundry, so didn't have time. He was buying food and clothes for the next day.

Anyway, marriage may work, but has nothing to do with being married. And the marriage contract itself makes things risky.

Here is Dr. Helen Smith explaining the risks, especially for men:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klx1cfV-8b4

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 08, 2018 11:24PM

Every example of a failed marriage in your post places the blame on the woman. Then you link to a youtube video that strings together a series of soundbite interviews, the vast majority of which are from Fox News, saying that men are disproportionately victims.

That's what I love about you tough guys. You are strong and confident until it is convenient to be a victim, then a victim you become through and through.

Mormonism may be troublesome to you, but women clearly are more so. Perhaps there is a website that caters more directly to misogynists?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2018 03:17AM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 09, 2018 07:48AM

I used to iron clothes for a horse trainer, growing up in the Morridor. She was classy and an elegant woman. They had two children, a boy and girl, in their 'forever' marriage on the horse ranch she maybe once dreamt of having.

Then she woke up one day finding she was bored and not so much in love with that life, or her man. They weren't wealthy by any means. She longed for the city life. They divorced. She moved to Ogden where she met someone more suitable at that stage in her life and could provide her with finer things.

I don't blame her for the dissolution of the marriage. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors? She wasn't happy where she was and outgrew the person she was as a younger woman. The country life can be very isolating and lonely, it isn't for everyone. She was an accomplished horse woman, so who woulda thunk it wasn't for her?

They both seemed like decent, good people. I believe they simply outgrew their marriage.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2018 08:05AM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 09, 2018 08:07AM

Both my SIL's were Mormon American Princesses. Still are to this day. My brothers weren't/aren't rich, but the fact my SIL's had them wound tightly around their pinky little fingers made up for that.

Both women managed to alienate them from our side of the family, on purpose. They are both who I consider to be designing women, but hey, they are who my brothers chose to marry. So I assign any blame on them.

The brother who recently died I believe worked himself to death. He worked hard to support and take care of his very large family. His wife because of chronic ailments was waited on for most of their long marriage until his death. Now she's going to need to either do it herself, have others wait on her, or she doesn't have long for this world either.

He worked long hours he really shouldn't have had to if they'd planned better for their family. He had a heart of gold though, and jumped through hoops to keep her happy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2018 08:12AM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: November 10, 2018 02:32AM

Free Man Wrote:
--
>

>
> It isn't just the church that promotes the
> marriage scam - it is all of society. I talk to
> non-mo guys at work who have been bamboozled.
> One guy mentioned his brother was shopping at
> Walmart last night. After working all day, came
> home and wife who was home all day reading novels
> hadn't gone shopping, so nothing to eat. Her
> excuse was that she was about to do laundry, so
> didn't have time. He was buying food and
> clothes for the next day.

Maybe it happened the way the guy said it happened, or maybe it didn't. One can never truly know what happened in someone else's relationship without talking to both parties. Sometimes even then, one still doesn't know for sure. For every MGHOW (singular form of "MGTOW"), there's a female with a story at least as convincing as the one told by the male.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 10, 2018 03:08AM

It's 50/50, or close to that, surely. I've seen a lot of cases where the man is to blame and a lot where the woman is.

What I object to is when someone always blames one gender for whatever problem is under discussion. It is wrong when women do that, and it is wrong when men do it.

Which is a long way of saying I agree with you.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 08, 2018 11:30PM

the Biggest threat to (LDS) families: Divorce

A HUGE threat to LDS members: being stung in a divorce.s

(my opinion) HUGE reason for LDS divorces: 1 member has questions or doubts, wants real answers, resolution.


So, what does the LDS church do?r

1. Lets if not encourages TBM members to divorce doubters, no matter the truthfulness or real reasons...

2. Focus on gays, trans people, SSM, etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2018 11:39PM by GNPE.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: November 09, 2018 12:41AM

DH and I met in the Mormon church. Because we had both been deeply hurt in dreadful prior marriages, we didn't want to rush into anything.

Our bishop was a rather nasty, controlling guy. When we told him we wanted to marry, he stalled on it, saying that we needed to marry in the temple. I had a TR, mostly because I'm a pretty smooth liar and hadn't really done much of anything to ruffle ecclesiastical feathers. (I didn't see any reason to confess watching R-rated movies or reading anything that intrigued me. I didn't agree with the Mormon notion that those things should be confessed. I considered them to be MY business, not anyone else's.) DH didn't, because he was too honest. I didn't foresee that changing anytime soon (it hasn't, in thirty or so years.)

I finally had a rather testy meeting with the bishop, and told him, "If you don't let us get married, there will sooner or later be a chastity issue, and I'm letting you know NOW. While I would rather be married in church than at City Hall, that is always a fallback."

He was quite clearly taken aback by this, and relented. He married us a couple of months after that. All I had to do was threaten to make an end-run. Game over.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 09, 2018 12:15PM

I like how you think Catnip. And strongly suspect that is what attracted your husband to you in the first place!

Besides your wonderful good looks and sexy figure aside, of course!

:)

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: November 10, 2018 02:05AM

DH still seems to think I am pretty hot. Huh. No accounting for taste.

I am just one lucky old broad, to have snagged such a loving and thoroughly compatible guy for a spouse. He is definitely a keeper.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: November 09, 2018 04:32AM

Mormons/ the Mormons think that certain things and places and people are more sacred than others, or have more rights on account of following orders, or that because itś secret/ sacred it´s done in a certain type of building, or certain words are uttered, or because you look/ feel/ act a certain way, are a healthy tithe [10% tax] payer/ financial supporter, believe, think, or feel, or imagine certain things, is severely mistaken.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: November 09, 2018 01:10PM

The temple seems/ sounds/ is confining. [On earth, as it is in heaven? or hell?]. Put me in a box [cage?] (haunted house) and do special things for me, in the dark, and it is forever wonderful?
I want/ have/ need to be/ am free! So, that won´t work for me... and I won´t work for it (prop it up, support it, vouch for it, defend it, pretend it is something it is not: true), or feed or buy into it.

Marriage is a day-by-day, ongoing commitment/ love/ need/ convenience, etc.; an institution; earthly practice. Marriage, to a Mormon, in a Mormon-LDS temple? What is considered?
What does that do for me? [ABSOLUTELY NOTHING (Frankie Goes To Hollywood)!]

Does it Give Me Power? No! (Mavis Staples)
Does it build me up? Hahaha (OR ITSELF?)
Does it Show Me, me? What? (Missouri)

What is there that isn´t ANYWHERE (else) [inside yourself]?
If two people enter a building, how can they depart as one?

It´s about working - and playing - together. Hard, & Soft.
It´s got nothing to do with imitated & empty rituals. Tpff

I laugh when these simple (polluted, with superstitious and hollow fiction, rather than fine finished fact) people become so complicated in their figuring, that they actually believe that their [mis]leaders have ¨power¨, and they are going to give it to them [and they will be ´married' ¨forever¨ (from THEN on out)].

Power to live forever, as one. Power to be BETTER THAN THE WORLD. Power to have a bigger, better, cooler marriage than normals.
Power to outlive time, creativity, soul, and imagination.

You [may] need to ([re]claim)/ [realize]/ Take Back Your Power.
POWER To Love, and To Live, and to Realize Each Day, as it passes

M@t

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 09, 2018 01:17PM

Love is what's eternal. Not temple marriages.

That's institutional insanity born of a cult. Those vows have nothing to do with keeping families together IMO. The secrets that were so "sacred" that are now outed to the light of day, were/are not sacred. They're an embarrassment.

I'm glad my parents got out of there when they did. It didn't save their marriage, but it shook them out of their comfort zone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2018 01:18PM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: November 09, 2018 01:34PM

Women often come out with custody of the kids and a bunch of support, half the pension, half the 401K, etc.

My nephew just went through a divorce and after his ex bought a house she couldn't afford, decided to try to claim things that weren't true and get more child support. The judge threw it out. Thank goodness. She has been horrible.

My brother's ex made their son sleep outside (per her new husband's demands) because he had night terrors at age 5. She gave up custody to my brother and he and his second wife raised him. He and his step-mother get along great, but he wishes his mother loved him. My brother didn't ask for child support. My older brother didn't either when his ex gave him custody of their son.

My niece actually told my daughter that "your mother did it right where seeing children goes." My kids were allowed to see their dad any time they wanted or he wanted. Since I'm still married to him, I didn't get any child support, spousal support, and haven't taken half his pension, although we have made arrangements for how things will be when we retire. I paid for most of the house and he lives here, too.

Men should have custody of the children more often. The mother is not always the one who should have custody. I don't believe women should always get half the pension, half the 401K, etc. Get spousal support until they die or remarry. My boyfriend's ex told their daughter he never paid her anything. He paid her 185,000 so far in spousal support.

I get sick of it all and I'm a woman.

And let's not talk about marriages not lasting forever. I guess mine has so far. What a joke. I'll never marry again. All I ever wanted was to never lose my family. It only took 11 years. But then when you consider the reality of mormon teachings, I'll take my chances with not being a mormon. Never would I want to be a goddess or share a man with a bunch of other women.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2018 01:37PM by cl2.

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Posted by: iam not ( )
Date: November 09, 2018 04:03PM

I observe marriage is a business. Fortunately for me, IAM NOT a "business-man"

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: November 10, 2018 12:05PM

I'm not a good-bad businessman either, but rather-a 'pleasureman'.
That is, I find-make pleasure in others and they take pleasure in me.
Being me is a treasure, you see, and a big part of being truly free!
Life is, by measure, a trip, a voyage, a journey, a cosmic happening.

M@t

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Posted by: Levi ( )
Date: November 10, 2018 10:45AM

And "Wendy Dew" it is.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 12:40AM

Sometimes the greatest gift is impermanence.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 01:37PM

Drat! When I first read that, I saw "Sometimes the greatest gift is impertinence."

Which of course made me feel good because I've been ever so blessed with it.

In fact, I think I'll just keep believing that that's how you wrote you.

Thank you!!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 01:39PM

Sometimes the greatest gift is incontinence.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2018 01:50PM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 01:46PM

Listen, Lot's Wife!!! If you don't want to live on a continent, that's your problem!!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 01:51PM

Sometimes the greatest gift is im...ence.

Or should that go in the marriage thread?

--The insular Lot's Wife



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2018 01:52PM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: GNPE1 ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 12:12PM

I Don't get this 'blaming' stuff!

Why should it matter when people aren't able to resolve things?

Especially for people other than the couple & their children.

Let's substitute 'responsibiliy' in place of 'blame', OK?

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 12:47PM

I think that whenever there is a divorce with kids involved, both parents should be treated equally. They should both meet some minimal standard to be qualified to be a custodial parent. Then if they don't come to their own agreement, the judge should officiate in a literal coin-toss, to see who gets the kids and who has to pay child support. The winner gets both the kids and child support. The loser gets visitation rights and has to pay child support to the winner.

Whether it's the man or the woman who ends up having to pay child support, their obligation should be taken as seriously as if it were the man. So, if the woman loses the coin toss and she is not qualified for any kind of work, she would have to get a job somewhere (maybe at the 7-11 or at McDonalds if necessary). If she doesn't meet her court ordered child support obligations, then her wages would be garnished. Eventually if she continues not meeting her legal obligations, she would be arrested as a deadbeat mom, and put in jail. No matter what happens, the state would pay the court ordered child support for her and it would all go on her tab, which could never be bankrupted. The same applies already if it is the man. Then when a woman contemplates divorcing her husband, she would consider what her life will be like if she loses the coin toss. A lot more marriages might suddenly start surviving then.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 02:22PM

have the children split time between parents 50/50, not child support needed...

special occasions, birthdays, holidays, vacations to be taken into account.

(hopefully) Let everyone see that divorces don't have to be nasty, vicious.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2018 04:19PM by GNPE.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 12, 2018 07:44AM

A coin toss is too simplistic to decide who gets the children in a custody dispute.

The court looks to determine who is the better qualified of the two parents to look after the needs and welfare of the children. This cannot be decided by a coin toss.

The parent who is the higher paid is often the one to get less custody, and subsequent visitation with the children, because of being away from the home more and not engaged directly with the children's upbringing.

It's the "Best Interest of the Child" test the courts look to. Sometimes a neutral court appointed guardian is needed to help make this determination, especially when the parents divorce turns nasty and contested.

Even parents receiving welfare who are non-custodial have to pay something for child support. Even they don't get off scott free. It doesn't mean they are better qualified to raise their children. That is decided by the court on the best interest test, not by a toss of the coin.

And sadly, sometimes, by which parent has the better legal team to argue their case for them, even if they're not the best choice to be raising the children.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2018 07:46AM by Amyjo.

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