Its been years since I have heard any discussion on the following topics or words used in talks.


Discussion of the specific degrees of Glory


The word Exaltation


An indepth discussion of the Godhead


The First Vision


How the Book of Mormon came forth


Free agency


Indepth discussion of the pre mortal life


Becoming Gods


Having your own planet


Discussion of any of the Articles of Faith


Am I close is saying that these topics are not relevant anymore but were major selling points in the 60's and 70's Back then people studied for months and months before committing to baptism. Not like today. I think that is what made the Church different and seem more true. People studied and when they were baptised it felt like it was true to them .This indicated to me as a young boy the Church must have been true. People put a lot of effort into it before they joined.

That is what we talked about all right. All the time.

And, also, we talked about how being Mormon was proof of how valiant we all were in the pre-existence. That got mentioned a lot in my stake. A real lot. Always in a humble way of course.

Pushing contacts into agreeing to baptism in the first discussion now is just proof of the desperation the church is feeling as it succumbs to reality in the Information Age.

All the 60s RMs here who memorized the six discussions know that we pushed for baptism as fast then as they do now.

"So, Sr. Fulano, if you come to know that the church is true, which works better for you, getting baptized on the 22nd or the 26th?"

Remember how they'd all splutter?

This is still what they taught us to do in the MTC in the summer of 2001; we were supposed to ask what date they wanted to be baptized at the end of the first discussion. Fortunately I never got as far as the mission field to have to try it, because it sounded to me like it would go over like a lead balloon.

It was generally taught that the conditions of birth here were determined by how fantastic a person was in the P.E. But some allowance was made for the possibility that a person would be born into some difficult situation because they had a "special mission" or assignment that they had to carry out.

Of course, pre-1978, it had always been taught that Black people who had African ancestry could not hold the priesthood. (Interestingly, the ban did not apply to Fijians, Australian aborogines, Papua New Guineans) because Africa was: (1) where the "Seed of Cain" had been propagated; and (2) Spirits born into the lineage of Cain were spirits who had been fence-sitters in the "War in Heaven."

Oddly enough, that whole line of thinkly quietly disappeared as a topic of discussion (particularly in any official Church forums) a short time after June 9, 1978.

Do you think anybody under 40 has even heard of the "fence-sitter" thing?

that the "gospel teachings" filling up my nieces' and nephews' heads are quite different from the "gospel teachings" that I experienced.

Sure, the vague abstractions of "faith", "repentance" and "baptism" are still repeated. But many of details of the belief system have all been switched around.

So many beliefs that we once thought were revealed and restored truths etched in stone are now sitting under a tarp in the Church's "unclaimed baggage" room.

Fence-sitting spirits? Nobody seems to want to claim that particular item of baggage. It will either completely decompose under a thick layer of dust or eventually be hauled off to the scrapyard.

Oh how you make me laugh! They do give one a lot of material to work with don't they, the Mormons.

I'm 34. I've heard of it.

I remember how Emma Smith was rarely if ever discussed openly, due to her alleged apostasy. I recall only seeing one picture of her in a meeting house and that was of her being seen as starting the Relief Society at the behest of Joseph.

It seems that during the nineties, when Joseph was reborn into the Action figure physique we see him in now, that they decided he needed a spouse (only one). So they dusted off Emma and reintroduced her as his loving spouse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2018 11:57AM by Whiskeytango.

So true. Emma was a hiss and a byword when I was growing up Mormon.

I was taught Emma was a murderer for killing Eliza Snow's baby.

Whiskeytango Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So they dusted off Emma and reintroduced her
> as his loving spouse.

This Emma was born of another witch clan.

She was a perfect match for horny Joe till she caught him with young handmaid Fanny Alger.

She went half nuts after that, but played along till the bullets flew.

Up until about my mid-teen years, Emma's name was mud.

Then around the time I was on my way out of the LSD Church, I noticed that she was being portrayed as the ideal LDS wife and mother. They even stuck a statue of her and Joseph in Temple Square, IIRC, to memorialize the two of them as the model couple. Of course I'm sure there is no memorial plaque there explaining that: (1) Joseph Smith had cheated on her with multiple women throughout their marriage; and (2) Emma basically owned Nauvoo after Joseph Smith died and was subsequently happily married to a guy named Lewis Bidamon whom she lived with for more years than she had been married to Joseph Smith.

But the Orwellian airbrushing of history didn't stop with Emma. They then came out with that "Teachings of the Prophets" series of official lesson manuals in which every single polygamous prophet was portrayed as only ever having been a devoted monogamous husband and father. The plural wives were completely flushed down the memory hole as no mention of their existence or the existence of their children was even hinted at.

TBH, by that time I was well aware of the fact that the Church leaders practiced sophistry and fudging of history quite regularly. But the blatant dishonesty of the lesson manuals somehow still managed to shock me.

Another frequent topic was the coming Millennium and how it was "just around the corner", "Saturday's Warrior" and all that.

most TBMs took it for granted that the big winding up (Second Coming, etc.) would happen right around the year 2000, if not sooner. And many expected all kinds of big doomsday events to occur in the decade or two leading up to it.

I was out of the LSD Church in the eighties, but could still hear relatives talking that way until around the mid-nineties. Then they started hedging their bets. By around 2005, the subject rarely ever came up. Now in 2018...it's just one of those "who know?" subjects. They're all out of ideas and opinions on that one. The year 2000 was this big obvious thing to point to. It marked the change of a century and a millennium. After that, some latched on the 2012 hype ("Mayan calendar" nonsense). Now there's no big milestone ahead that anyone can agree on as being significant.

Years ago we were told to listen to whAt the leaders had to say, go home and think about it and dec ide if it was right. Non if this "The thinking has been done for you" BS. Sure sign of a cult.

Another book of mormon teaching tossed aside

3 Nephi 17:3

The word of Christ himself

"Go ye unto your homes, and ponder upon the things which I have said, and ask the Father, in my name, that ye may understand."

Today from half wit Bishops to the grand poobah himself they place themselves above christ and demand complete unchallenged obedience.

When I was in my early teens, I knew a girl in my ward who always had a pair of shoes that was set aside for the walk back to Missouri.

Those boots were made for walking, all right!

By that time I think enough people had passed through modern Missouri at some point that a critical mass of Mormons knew with every fiber of their being that Missouri was never going to be the "promised land" for them.

The expiration date on that notion arrived and it got tossed into the dumpster.

How about that Jesus was not only married but was a polygamist.

Back then, the temple was hardly ever mentioned. It was a total mystery, but touted to be a miraculous experience, "when the time came." We were told that "many new and wondrous things" would be revealed to us in the temple, and it was a "learning experience."

No bragging about new construction, back then.

"Every member a missionary", and pushing young teen agers to prepare to go on a mission. However, no pushing missions to primary kids, like now.

Temple marriage. We teen girls were admonished to NOT date anyone but Mormons, and to marry only a returned missionary.

"Chastity" was taught in MIA/Mutual/YW, to the point of overkill. "Don't be like a piece of bread with the butter licked off." I was afraid to kiss a boy, until BYU, and I married him--big mistake!

Money-grabbing, back then, as now. Tithing for primary kids. I was forced to pay tithing on my babysitting money, and on my allowance (though my father had paid tithing on it already).

"Pennies by the inch" for Primary Children's Hospital.

"The Building Fund" to repair the ward house. Our ward raised money and labored to build a new wing of classrooms. (That land was valuable residential real estate, and LDS, Inc. made millions selling it to the Scientologists!

My brother and I remember lessons taught on the pre-existence. We were taught about the war in heaven, and how Satan's followers followed him to Hell, Christ's followers went to Heaven to be born on Earth (that's us). Those less valiant spirits who "sat on the fence" were born on Earth, but were cursed with the "mark of Cain", which was a black skin. Later, Mormons here in Utah thought I was crazy when I mentioned we were taught that. They tried to gaslight me, saying, "We never taught that. You aren't remembering correctly." I had to call my brother long distance, and he verified that we were taught that many times. My brother has a photographic memory! (Obviously, the guy with the photographic memory was the first one in the family to leave the cult!)

...discussed in the parking lot by derelict members during Elders Quorum.......

..."Why Zima was actually good for you!

Bitch beer!

...hurtful, very hurtful.

In our ward, lots of discussion of how evil the world would become in those "latter days," and how Salt Lake City would be the most evil place on Earth. And even the elect will fall ...

Food storage--two years worth. I think they've slacked off that one because farm land is now better used as housing developments. Just my opinion.

Growing up in the 60s and 70s, GA's would tell us we were the chosen generation and that the end was near.

Tithing was often referred to as "burn insurance" in sunday school and sacrament talks.

Wearing garments will protect you from fires and car accidents.

I was born after a lot of the folk tales were spoken of so openly. My dad is in his early seventies and is a lifelong TBM descending from LDS pioneers in almost all strands. He says - and I take what he says with a grain of salt or more because he whatewashes the church just as do most of the loyal members - that anything about Emma other than a strict recounting of the events as they were known to have happened was just the opinion of the person stating it and was never anything officially promoted by the church itself. It does seem that she's more highly esteemed now than she might have been earlier. The party line from most of the people who taught me was that she endured to the end to the greatest extent of her ability and that her straying in the end was the fault of the "evil" individuals who preyed upon her when she was vulnerable.
I've never found that in any official source, though.

I don't know what time frame anyone might be referencing when saying that missionary preparation wasn't pushed as far down as to the Primary level, but the old orange "Sing with Me" book (published in 1969) contained "I hope They Call Me on a Mission." My mom said the song was relatively obscure and not often sung despite being in the book until a Primary program included it at some point in the mid-1970's.

My parents have a copy of the old green "The Children Sing" children's songbook that was in place before "Sing With Me." I'm not sure when that one was published, but it was before "I Am a Child of God."

As I recall, class discussions sometimes encompassed the curse of Cain and other such topics, but it likely happened when discussion veered from the actual content of the lesson and probably wasn't ever in any lesson manuals much after the turn of the century. How much and how frequently these fringe topics made it into talks or classroom discussions depended upon just how many wing nuts were in one's ward or stake and/or how prominent their positions were. Out "in the mission field," if the wing nuts were attending regularly and not flagrantly violating the WoW, they might very well have been in major leadership positions, so discussion of the folksy topics might have made its way into talks and lessons on a regular basis.

I always wanted to talk about free agency but I didn't have the free agency/ wasn't allowed to think, or speak, wisely or naively.
It wasn't about my needs-feelings or anything, but how bad I was, simply for having them: thoughts-needs-feelings-questions, etc.

So, NOTHING was discussed, of any importance, except the so-called all-important LDS rules
That go contrary to any natural, normal life or that would make sense about this made up 'religion'.

Chasing scriptures, instead of tail. Memorizing lies to repeat to any dummy who will listen [they never did, but I never brought it up (what a sham the whole thing is/ felt like) either]. Going to dances where you had to be so far apart you didn't know who you were dancing with. Going to church dysfunctions where the kitchen wasn't used because the members bought it for the profits. Talking about Joseph Smith's myths, and fantasies, and problems. Sick!

Aghhhh

M@t

Self Reliance

Canning... but mostly Can'ting.

Making the Lamanites "white and delightsome."

Possibilities

Prep for walking back to Missouri.

The Three Nephites sightings.

Bishop Coyle's Dream Mine.

Constitution to hang by a thread and L-d$,inc leaders to save it.

Three prophets dead in the streets of israel.

WHY did the church make Relief Society quit having bake sales?

Remember when "Profecy, Key to the Future" was used in gospel doctrine class? Those days are long gone, never to return. And it used to be that we were never to discuss Emma Smith, because it brought up uncomfortable and unanswerable questions. It stayed like that until Newell abd Tippets wrote "Mormon Enigma," which forced the church's hand to reinvent Emma. Their choice was to make her into a sort of Holy Mother.

Know your religion?

It was too successful for those questioning church history.