Are Witnesses as Cultish as Mormons?

I would say JW's are worse. Much more cultish.

Does the LDS church encourage shunning? JWs shun you if you leave. Your entire family will no longer acknowledge you. That is so sad.

Mormons shun too.

Shunning with JWs is a complete cut-off. Will not even say hello if they pass you in the street. Like that would encourage you to want to return. Nope. The thinking, as I understand it, is that you knew "the truth" and turned away from it. The unforgivable sin. Plus, as with LDS, leaders don't want the flock cavorting with the fallen as it may rub off and more will leave. That could very likely happen. I wouldn't know. Never spoke to any JW former friends again. Not my choice.

I never heard that Mormons are commanded to shun those who leave. In fact, maybe they get plagued more by admonitions to return. But undoubtedly, as we read here, remaining LDS family, friends, leaders make life tough for anyone who leaves. In particular, some bishops encourage spouses to divorce ex-member partners. The Mormon partners sometimes seek to keep children away from the one who has left. Family members may not seek out their company or even speak to them.

As if any of that type of behaviour would make someone want to come back. Force them to feel they have to stay, or return, yes. Feel like doing it - no.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2018 04:55PM by Nightingale.

Many's the time I've read on this very board about ex-mos being ignored in public places by their former "friends" and read of the endlessly horrible ways family members treat each other.

Shunning takes different forms, and it may not be "officially" sanctioned in mormondumb, but very little actually is "official" in mormondumb, right? Shunning is actively and tacitly encouraged, and in the case of both (or all) cults, it's done in the cult's interest. Mormons are masters of shunning.

I agree about the shunning. I was trying to indicate that as far as I know it is not a *commandment* (so to speak) in Mormonism as it is with JWs. However, as I said, I know it is practised by many Mormons against family members and friends who have left. Yes, we read about it here a lot. It is beyond sad.

I have never been shunned by any LDS. They shake my hand and we go to ballgames together. They treat me like a member.

I don't judge degree of cultishness (I'm not good at it) but from personal experience JWs are much more isolated, on purpose, from the general population. Many don't even get a chance to get to know non-JWs at a job as they are encouraged to go for self-employment (many become independent real estate agents, often in their own small company). Females, of course, are expected to stay at home and play out the "traditional" roles of wife and mother. JWs are taught and/or pressured to give higher education a miss. (As was said to me about my nursing ambitions, "We won't need nurses after Armageddon", which is always just around the corner, of course, generation after generation). They do not celebrate any religious holidays (Christmas, Easter). They are discouraged from having non-JW friends. Of course, you can/should only marry a fellow JW. As young as possible. They aren't so much into having big families as Mormons are, that I ever knew about - could have changed.

So they are isolated. Plus some of their beliefs are way outside mainstream, such as not accepting blood transfusions, even if death will be the result. There's the usual antipathy from non-JWs who don't like getting preached at from their own doorstep on a Saturday morning or being exposed to magazine displays and greetings on the street from JWs putting in their (required) preaching time.

To me, JW doctrine is much simpler (simplistic?) than Mormon doctrine. Basically, mankind screwed up God's perfect plan and all of human history has been about getting back to where we started: Garden of Eden, post Armageddon, when only faithful JWs will walk the earth and it will be Paradise well and truly restored. That really appealed to me as a young teen (and the world situation seems 1000-fold more bleak now).

Mormons, otoh, are out and about in the world, with a lot more freedom of choice about career and relationships. So if you felt constrained in these areas as a Mormon try and imagine JWs being even more so.

Inarguably though, both are isolating groups with profound effects on an adherent's upbringing, development, beliefs, career choices, relationships, plans, future and entire life.

I enjoyed being a JW for a few years though. Met nice people, had a few good boyfriends, understood the teachings, didn't feel too tied down. Can't say the same about Mormonism, which I found controlling, confusing, frustrating and depressing.

Both have their pros and cons I guess in comparison with each other. Far better to find a path that allows for a lot more freedom of individual choice in all matters.


ETA: I have observed that many posters here judge the WatchTower Society (JWs) as being far worse. Not in my experience. But, of course, that is only one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2018 07:24PM by Nightingale.

Above I said: "Mormons, otoh, are out and about in the world, with a lot more freedom of choice about career and relationships."

I did not intend to convey the opinion that Mormons are gifted with unlimited free choice. Sorry if it comes across that way. Of course they have many restrictions and, as we've discussed for many years here, you can easily be 25 years old with a marriage partner and five kids before you think to give your head a shake and ask what the heck...? (Because your program is mapped out from birth and your time is consumed by "the church", its teachings, life program, expectations.

There are many unfortunate characteristics of both groups and those born in to either one have a challenge to figure things out.

I'm guessing your experience is based on not having so much family in JWs. For me all my family are Mormon, so leaving was super hard. Joining, and then leaving, JWs after a few years probably wouldn't feel as hard. So I think it is fact dependent on whether you care if the people shun you.

With Mormonism I stoped caring if my family judged me. I cut most of them out of my life anyway due to constant pain.

Correct. No family in either group so it was easy enough for me to walk away. I was shocked to be shunned by the JWs, didn't expect it, and did miss my friends. It meant something to me to be a member because I believed in it, so I missed that, whereas I never bought into the whole LDS doctrine. I was a teen/early 20s as a JW, just starting out after high school. I had wanted to be a nurse all my life and had been accepted into the program after high school, before meeting a JW and ending up joining, and was going to go ahead with the nursing thing despite their teaching about no higher ed and telling me often, as I said, "We won't need nurses after Armageddon" (which is always just around the corner). Then a freak abnormal lab value delayed my entrance and so I just got a job and kept on with the JWs for years before finally seeing the light (after which I did finally enter the nursing program).

I found it hard to make friends with Mormons. It seemed very strange to me until I realized that a big part of it was that people are just so busy and who knows what other reasons they have for not reaching out to new members. It wasn't only me it happened to - every convert or prospect I met said the same thing - people not that friendly over the long term. It's like their attention is on growing the flock but not tending to it, as in getting people to join but not intending to keep up with them afterward. The LDS family that was 100% instrumental in getting me to join totally backed off after I was baptized. It's surpassingly strange behaviour to outsiders, let me say. (Because they pretend to be friends but aren't really and "normal" people, in my experience, aren't like that).

But, yeah, as a convert to both (although I always say I did not convert to Mormonism, I just joined, as there was a lot I didn't believe and also a lot I didn't know) with no family in either it was a lot easier for me to decide to leave, with not much in the way of repercussions for my life, except some emotions and feelings attached to the experiences and some lingering questions.

Definitely way easier than being born in. For sure. Hurtful though in their own ways. But not totally devastating or causing ongoing major life problems.

I think there are few cross-overs between the 2, so each is bad for its own followers/members.

Comparisons are very subjective as NG suggests...

my .02

Whichever cult is being pushed onto your children--that's the worst.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

JWs don’t serve in the military, salute the flag, stand for the National Anthem,say the Pledge of Allegiance, don’t sing patriotic songs

I don't say the pledge, either.

I don't salute the flag .dont recite the pledge and can do without ever having the anthem played at a ball game ever again. Get tired of public displays of patriotism

They serve in non-combat roles, i.e. medics, ambulance drivers, transport, meal service, couriers, etc.

They are like conscientious objectors in not wanting to kill due to their religious convictions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2018 02:50PM by Nightingale.

other than military who salutes the flag?

I've met a few JWs and they seem to be a bit more cult-like in general. On an individual basis, though, you can find individuals all along at different points on the spectrum. I would just say that statistically, you're probably more likely to encounter JWs who seem more programmed in everything they say and do.

The similarities are striking.

Both have heavy Masonic influences.

Both require intensive proselytizing (JWs get all members out on the streets. Mormons concentrate it more on the 2-year missions and senior missions).

Both have weird rules that set them apart from society. (Mormons have their weird "Word of Wisdom" and JWs have their thing against blood transfusions and other weird rules.)

Both have a history of spectacular failure with their prophecies and doctrines.

They sometimes seem like evil twins.

Just as another observation (for trivia fans): The Osmonds and the Jacksons were active in the pop music world at the same time. The Osmonds were celebrities that the LSD Church was happy to call its own and they often promoted Mormonism. The Jacksons were celebrities that the JWs were happy to claim as their own and they often promoted JW-ism. It was weird that you had these parallels going at the same time.

Pick your poison.

Since many of my relatives are still TBM, I'm going to go out on a limb and say JW is worse. Keep in mind they don't allow blood transfusions to save lives. Or celebrate normal holidays during the year, including birthdays.

It just seems more culty than the other. But they both are cults.

From my encounters with JWs, asking whether them or Mormons are worse is like asking "tapeworms or ringworm, which is worse?"

Yes, it's a mixed bag. I thinks LDS are more covert with their shunning, JW's more blatant and pervasive. I have some relatives in New England that are Christadelphian (spelling?) who are also very shunning towards family who have strayed. Makes me sad for them. Tapeworms or ringworm......good one.
My wife always sends Christmas Card to JW niece, and when we see her in person, she always says to her "i know you don't celebrate Christmas, but i love you and just want to let you know that i'm thinking of you". Niece says she knows it's coming from love and that she doesn't mind. that makes me happy. Niece grew up catholic and seems to do better with JW.

Is there a specific reason why we have to choose?

JW's were the first scam I ever fell for at around age 22. Up until then I thought the world was an honest place. I had no idea about conmen, Ponzi's, frauds or deceptive, lying religious leaders. (Naïve and gullible).

Though I didn't get baptised I did make a fool out of myself trying to warn (save) family and friends from imminent Armageddon.

At age 44 I gave Mormonism a look in and saw the similarities with JW's, but noticed Mormons were generally far more educated and generally wealthier ( more professional occupations).

I think JW's under Watchtower Mind Control are more dangerous to themselves and family and much more disadvantaged than Mormons.

I think it's a toss up. Both are equally dangerous.

I regularly pass by the Kingdom Hall and the Mormon chapel in my area. The parking lot of the KH is always packed four nights a week. There's always a couple of men in suits standing in the parking lot. By contrast, there's only cars at the chapel one or two nights a week. There's a gazillion empty empty spaces while the KH has people parking on side streets.

Will-I-am > Are Witnesses as Cultish as Mormons?

Can you break your question down?
Or should we break/ blow this up?
Can't compare apples to oranges.

This is not a Recovering from the craziness known as the "Witnesses" (protection program), but more like Recovery (and decent chances of survival) if, before, as, From, and after the smoke screens clear, and we hope you recover from the not-so-vague plague, and unfortunate anti-personal-growth would-be community and "truth" known as Mormonism-RFM.

You should be able to learn everything you need to know-
Or maybe already know, or think you know, on this 'bored?',
Or just about anywhere on the internet. Or bye prayer.
Happy surfing: I got to catch [make] a "wave". Bye.
Did I catch yours? By and by, but don't buy it.
Mormonism isn't "TRUE". Does that help?

I knew a man, growing up [me, not him], named J.W.
Those were his initials. That's all I know about.

M@t

Mormonism is endlessly fascinating to me. The only way JW is "worse" to me is that I don't find it as interesting as Mormonism.

Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!

...JW's are worse. They are much more combative and militant. If the orders are given to harass and intimidate members, they will do it! Never seen LDS go to that extreme........

Concerned Citizen 2.0 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the orders are given to harass and intimidate members, they will do it! Never seen LDS go to that extreme........

They are [aren't given orders, but "calling" orders]
They are called bishops offices.

M@t

yah ummmmmmm so what JW recently jumped to their death, out of depression,from the fourth floor of a campus building at the JW owned university ??????

Yah ummmmmmm what JW leader raped a vulnerable younger female JW member at the JW mission training center ?????? after picking her out as a previous victim from her JW membership file?


Yah uhhhhh what JWs went fundy and then had a revelation to kill their brother's wife and went through it it as well as killing her infant daughter their niece .......according to the gory execution of the penalties in the JW temple ???????

Yah uhhhhh, sorry, I forgot your question, during the very long time I was waiting for an answer .....and did not get one. SO What was your question, again ????

JW are definitely worse, but you know what is worse than that? Orthodox Amish... they are like JW on steroids.

From my observation, JWs are more insular, isolated from society, less well educated, poorer and generally messed up by their religion. They have terrible incidence of sexual and physical abuse within their families. Many of the men are arrogant and entitled, women are cowed.

I had a JW girlfriend at one point, who struggled greatly with the cog dis. We were going out for a short time and her family started talking about us getting married immediately. Stupid. They need to marry early so they can have sexual contact. Predictably many marriages fail.

I feel sorry for them. The religion will probably die out sooner than Mormonism. The church has had to make several expensive payouts recently for failing to protect sexual abuse victims.

I told a woman I know and she said JW.
I wondered how well she knows mormonism.
I told her some more she didn't know.
So now, I don't know. Nor care. So.

Maybe one day I'll find out more about JWs.
I wasn't raised one and won't become one.
So I'm not in a hurry.