Your user name is the same as my TBM seperated wife, whom I still love. It made me super happy to see her name attached to resignation. now I am sad knowing it isn't her. But thanks for the ten seconds of hope.
I have no doubt at all that the church is trying to make it tougher to resign. The lawyers say that some of Chubbs' resignations were fraudulent but they have refused to provide any evidence of that or information to help him fix any problems. That indicates that the isn't really interested in improving Chubbs' processes.
By forcing him to go through a law firm, which will probably impose conditions as time goes on, the church makes it more expensive for him to help people. That, I believe, is the goal: force him to give up his efforts on our behalf.
At some point this becomes legal and constitutional. The church must accept resignations, but can it impose reasonable conditions? Is interposing a law firm such a reasonable condition? How about requiring notarization?
My guess is that the answer is 'no.' The individual can resign however the hell he wants. But does Chubb, or do individual resignees, have the time and money to push this through the courts?
"By forcing him to go through a law firm, which will probably impose conditions as time goes on, the church makes it more expensive for him to help people. That, I believe, is the goal: force him to give up his efforts on our behalf."
...yes. A superficial effort by Church Legal? to intimidate the website owners, with the false narrative of some "future legal action." You can bet, using real-time data, that Church bean-counters, have been hard at work; tweaking, reshuffling, doing Ward closures, etc, in an effort to slow-walk and hide the declining membership numbers.
I have always been uncomfortable with the idea of using a law firm offering "free" service to resign. Resigning is only slightly more complicated than cancelling a magazine subscription, and less complicated than closing a bank account. It is the perfect DIY legal project.
When the "service" is free, you are the product. In this particular case, a law firm has your personal information, and they have done you a favor, and they know you don't already have a personal lawyer. They are hoping that someday you will need legal services of some sort, and you will think of that nice law firm that helped you resign. Talk about targeted advertising. I imagine it takes them about ten minutes to fill out and file a resignation, after talking to the soon-to-be exMo. If one person in ten uses them later in life, it was ten minutes well spent.
I suspect LDS Inc is just annoyed at being used to generate customers for a law firm, so they are making life tough for the law firm, just for the hell of it. They are trying to jack up the amount of time the law firm has to invest for this "free" service. It will of course cost them more too, but they have deeper pockets.
That, at least, is what appears to be going on to me.
I'm not sure he is doing it for business. A lot of us would put ourselves out considerably to weaken the church, and that is my impression of the man. Also, he could easily have charged a processing fee of 10 or 20 or 100 dollars for his work but hasn't done so.
The church is clearly trying to drive him out of business, or charity, as it were. The church would demand documentation directly and then have the extra work done by "volunteers," but doing so would be transparently illegal given the court cases. This is an attempt to put the responsibility on the God's law firm. I don't think this practice will hold up in court, since it's an indirect way to restrict the right of resignation--which is implicit in freedom of religion.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2018 04:47PM by Lot's Wife.
Maybe I'm being overly cynical. When I resigned, I had read here various people complaining about how hard it is to resign. I was totally puzzled. It didn't sound that hard. I actually kept careful track of how much time I spent for the entire process. It did take eight weeks of waiting, but actual work by me, 35 minutes. And that included a trip to the post office to send it "delivery confirmation". If I'd just sent an email, I could have saved 15 minutes.
But you are more disciplined and decisive person than many. I'll bet the availability of the attorney's service transformed 20 or 30,000 people from jack Mormons to ex-Mormons. For many people, having a simple system available probably makes a difference.
As for the attorney, I looked him up and he practices immigration law. He speaks fluent Spanish, for his sins, and is probably putting his missionary experience to good work. Perhaps he generates some job opportunities from among those whom he helps resign, but that wouldn't be as obvious as if he were a family law attorney or tort lawyer.
I agree, it's easy enough to do....but I used this law firm.
I did it because I didn't want to deal with the things that others have--and shouldn't have, but did--like "It's a local matter, you need to meet with your bishop" or a call from the local leadership asking if I really want to do this. Or worse, it never happening. The lawyer makes it clear the church is NOT to contact me directly and gets confirmation it is done.
The other final matter....I had moved and did not want my new address handed over to the church. I don't think it was. I had my member number and that confirmed at the time who I was.
It was handled professionally but the law firm and they were GREAT. I donated $$ to their cause because it was so helpful.
...a lot of long-time members would never consider such a move as resignation. This next huge wave of resignations will come from the Millennials. This is what the Church fears. Older, wiser members are drifting away, but, not at the rate we will see with the next generation.
If someone wants to resign it should be easy. Since some feel using a lawyer is better for them why not.
So the Church makes it tougher to resign. Unbelievable. Where is the human understanding, compassion and empathy that they talk so much about in Priesthood and Relief Society as part of the ministering process. We should have understanding, compassion and empathy toward those that want to resign. Instead the Church says to them screw you.
And why are lawyers even involved in the process? When you join the Church do you sign a contract? When you join the Church do they explain the process of leaving? When you join the Church do they tell you how serious they are about preventing you from leaving?
This whole process is just wrong. And what is Russ doing about this. Oh wait he is too busy trying to find the lost tribes. Wendy who was a professor in the social sciences at the University of Alberta should know how wrong this stuff is that the church is doing. Oh wait she is making a name for herself.
I guess those that resign just have to suck it up.
Last week in Priesthood we were told and we discussed that the reason people leave and do not come back is they do not feel loved!!! Our task as ministers (gag) is to love them back. Reading this post certainly shows a hugh amount of love. NOT
As an aside I am going on line to get my free "ordained minister license" and when they call me in to discuss my ministering assignments (which I do not know as they tell me it's online but never showed me how to find the families) I am going to show them mine and ask for theirs. Then I am going to say that the only one who can really talk about ministering is me. Plus I attended the University of Windsor and got three degrees. The university that is run by the Catholic Church and taught by the Fathers,so I think I have some pretty good credentials to be a real minister.Then we will have a discussion about ministering and what are the legal moral and psychological implications. We have a lot of people in our ward who love the title and the power that goes with calling themselves a ministering brother or sister. Not good.
that you have resigned. The bishop is the agent of the church. Once you've notified a duly appointed agent, that should be sufficient. Write the same thing on two napkins, sign it and ask the bishop to countersign as acknowledgement.
Any requirements beyond that are ridiculous. What is ChurchCo's leverage to make people jump through more hoops? Continued harassment? Excommunication? Once you've notified their agent (the Bishop) in writing, either one would seem to possibly constitute actionable harassment. Giving a person "court of love" notices and threatening excommunication after you've already told the agent (bishop) that you are no longer a member, may also be a form of defamation, since excommunication often implies a wide range of possible sins that may or may not have actually been committed, and the threat of excommunication is usually made known to several people.
Is ChurchCo claiming that only the formal resignation process defined by them is legally effective?
Elyse Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I read on REDDIT today that resignations from the > cult now go through the church law firm instead of > the membership department. > > Can anyone elaborate on this?
It's all the same.
The 'law were's' need something to do to. Protecting tscc/ themselves isn't enough.
LDS lawyers may do the counting, and sorting... They probably know the truth but have to work.