Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: December 06, 2018 12:39PM

A lawsuit has been filed against the state of utah for their rewritting of the medical marijuana law.

One of the points in the lawsuit is that the direct involvement of the mormon church in the writing of the law violates the separation of church and state.

We know the utah supreme court will never go against one of the own ie Oaks. Hopefully the federal supreme court will bloody the nose of the mormon church for interfering where it doesn't belong.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: eternal1 ( )
Date: December 06, 2018 01:12PM

One could only hope.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: jacob ( )
Date: December 06, 2018 05:18PM

To be clear, there is an important distinction to be made. There is no constitutional requirement that the Mormons stay out of the government's business. There is a law that is enforced by the IRS that the Mormons must follow.

"Organizations that are exempt from income tax under section 501(a) of the Internal Revenue Code as organizations described in section 501(c)(3) may not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office."

Notice that the rule specifies any candidate for public office. This would apply not only for elected office but any office that might be considered a public office. Like for example a judge, a president of a public university, or the like.

The IRS rules allow for issue advocacy as long as it is done party or candidate agnostic.

So in the Prop 2 issue it seems highly unlikely that the Mormon church will have violated these rules.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 06, 2018 05:59PM


The federal constitution may not be at issue here, but Article 1 of the Utah state constitution certainly is.

It provides that "There shall be no union of Church and State, nor shall any church dominate the State or interfere with its functions."

That surely makes the church's involvement in the MJ legislation look dubious. A suit under the state court system could almost certainly go forward.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: December 07, 2018 04:55AM

Controlling the Utah legislature is nothing new for TSCC. What is new is that they’re not getting away with it. They don’t get a free pass anymore, having frittered away the public goodwill they once had. Oaks has himself to thank for that.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: jacob ( )
Date: December 07, 2018 11:31AM

I'm still of the opinion that it is the responsibility of the government to kick the Mormon church from the negotiating table not the Mormon church's responsibility to leave.

The whole thing is duplicitous and underhanded. But I wonder if we are spending too much time worrying about a Mormon church that couldn't even stop Prop 2 from happening and not worrying about a legislature that would demonstrate such a contempt for the voter.

It is as if everyone involved has blinders on. Unintended consequences are a real thing.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Concerned Citizen 2.0 ( )
Date: December 06, 2018 05:26PM

...well, there is only one hope. Bring in Harry Reid of Nevada Gaming Commission fame...if he could get Frank Sinatra a Gaming License, then he can do anything!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: December 07, 2018 08:00AM

"Mr. Dodge said that President Reagan, acting as a character witness, had written through his attorney attesting that he considered Mr. Sinatra ''an honorable person - completely honest and loyal.'"

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: razortooth ( )
Date: December 07, 2018 12:58PM

Sonofabitch could sing thought.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: December 07, 2018 11:04AM

IMO the more relevant fact is that the legislators violated the rules.

A church can lobby all it wants. So can Joe's Auto Shop. The problem is that the legislators chose to do exactly what the church says. And they make it hard to vote them out of office, via gerrymandering and vote suppression.

The legislators see themselves as agents of the Mormon church. That is the problem.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: delbertlstapley ( )
Date: December 08, 2018 03:39PM

Utah legislators circumvented the voter approved proposition - which is wrong. But gerrymandering is what allows these crazies to stay in office. I'm glad Utah voters also passes a proposition that requires an independent commission to set election boundaries in a fair way

Utah is a one party, my way or the highway state where the elected people don't come close to representing the average Utahn (at least not outside Utah/crazy County).

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: December 08, 2018 03:52PM

Why is separation of religion and government a good thing ?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: You Too? ( )
Date: December 09, 2018 08:08PM

Being burned at the stake hurts.

Then you're dead.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: December 09, 2018 11:58PM

Heartless Wrote:
> Hopefully the federal supreme court will bloody the nose of the mormon church for interfering where it doesn't belong. >

Nobody needs to bloody LDS's nose.
It bloodies it's own knows every day.
It's part of bloodying members' noses.


P.S. The singer of the music on the radio just said bloody when I did so I typed this in and then hit send.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In

Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **     **  ********  ********   **     **  **      ** 
 ***   ***     **     **     **  **     **  **  **  ** 
 **** ****     **     **     **  **     **  **  **  ** 
 ** *** **     **     **     **  *********  **  **  ** 
 **     **     **     **     **  **     **  **  **  ** 
 **     **     **     **     **  **     **  **  **  ** 
 **     **     **     ********   **     **   ***  ***