Even with divine origins.

Isn't that the great teachings of the sages like Christ, Buddha, Gandhi, and visionaries?

Similar to the quote made famous by Martin Luther King, Jr, when he said he hoped one day that [all people] would be judged solely by the content of their character.

I cannot envision a creator who expects anything less than this. It goes to the core essence of our humanity.

It is central to my life. Nothing else matters.

for a long time now. I strongly believe that if there is an afterlife, which I tend to believe in, that we will be with those we love.

No jumping through hoops or being some religion.

But what about the handshakes?

Love really is all that matters. I personally think that our emotions affect us physically as well as mentally.

Amyjo, your post is one of the first things I read this morning. It set the day on a very good path.

Thanks for good words.

:)

There is no "if" about it. When I realized that love was all that mattered, everything else fell into place.

"All you need is love!" -- The Beatles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7xMfIp-irg

And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make

then THE (MORmON) church does not matter very much OR it only matters from the standpoint of being so antithetical to the thing that does matter.

MORmONISM -it only makes sense to real MORmONS.

Then a lot of people get away with a lot of crimes, many down right evil.

I do hope there is something of a "divine justice" of sorts, regardless of the wording

Amyjo, I think it's possible.

The biggest start on that (IMO) would be that people are just plain honest. Isn't that why most of us are here?--because we had so little tolerance for lies, dirty lies, and dirty liars?

"So little tolerance for ... dirty liars" doesn't sound very loving, but it is.

People have stopped loving because of the lies they were told, believe, and perpetuate.

Anyway, I think it's a good start. Will it happen? I hope.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2019 05:42PM by kathleen.

I agree with you. Practice love, compassion, kindness, and tolerance, wherever possible. That is the essence of religion, or rather, what religion should be.

If love is all that matters, and God is love, you have to wonder about those who think God will show love by eternally abandoning those who haven't come to accept the plan of their creator in this life. It seems to me a loving God will continue to hold out until everyone freely accepts the love they were created to enjoy.

Then the Beatles were right.

What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about.

Can't stop laughing,Dave !!

We thank thee o' god,…something something prophet!! We love to obey his commands.

IMHO...it isn't.

Love is great. To be encouraged, practiced, shared.

But love won't put food on anyone's table -- yours, your family's, the hungry stranger's. Actions (possibly driven by love, possibly not) will.

Yes, love is great. Important, even. But from my point of view, not believing in (or caring about) some imagined "after-life reward" thing, what "matters" is action here and now. What we do for ourselves, our families, our communities, our world.

Love is great. Action wins in terms of practicality and usefulness. Whether those actions are driven by love or not.

Coding in anger does tend to be practical.

It may be that in the end love is all that really matters. Yet by itself is never enough.

Actions without love behind them are hollow, rote.

That's why it's said that charity never faileth. "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal." 1 Cor 13:1

Love can't be the only thing that matters. It might be part of a good start and maybe even a good exclusive end, but there has to be a lot more that really matters all of the way along the path. Justice has to weigh-in somewhere along the way. The atonement is supposed to be about Jesus love for everyone else. But to the mormons, the atonement is (in practice) nothing more than one big fucking credit card with an unlimited line of credit and a known plan in advance that we're just going to bankrupt that debt anyway. "No worries, big brother jesus has me covered anyway. Unlike those poor suckers who did not get baptized and who do not pay tithing like I do, Jesus has me totally covered". People knowingly act outwardly like they know that isn't how it works, and then they live their lives like that is exactly how it works. The actions of those people causes real damage to others. So it's this god-damned Jesus credit card that has harmed my life at times in the past. Why should we accept an atonement that is used like that? I am not saying that love doesn't matter. But in the end, love is not enough. There has to be more.

Forgiveness isn't the missing part of the answer either. Forgiveness feeds in to the whole 'Jesus credit card' paradigm to begin with. Mormons teach that mercy cannot rob justice and then the church leaders all rob justice routinely in the name of mercy because they personally have no skin in the game. Lost somewhere in the process is a recognition of any aggrieved person's humanity. So apparently, Jesus wants me to voluntarily endure injustices for unknown reasons, because he (in infinite wisdom) did the same for me (at least that's what I am told). It doesn't add-up. And so I don't have either infinite wisdom, nor do I agree to be a victem. My role in the injustices against me is not with my consent nor with my post-event forgiveness. If such a plan exists for real, why would these abuses in god's name be allowed. We are told to have faith and some people lie to themselves to convince themselves that they have a testimony (the god-forsaken testimony lie). Wouldn't a loving God give us more than this if such a plan really existed?

Even jesus was not forced against his will to make an atonement. It was voluntary on his part. Then there are the attempts at spritual extortion that say 'if you do not forgive others, then God will not forgive you'. The problem with that arguement is that from a spiritual perspective, I live frugally. I do everything in my power to settle my spiritual debts as I go, or better yet not to incur them in the first place if I can. Perhaps my spiritual beliefs are reflected also in my political beliefs. If I am taking college courses and doing homework in to the evenings while working long hours and ensuring sleep-deprivation for years on-end to end up with a good job, then why should someone who spent those same years partying and taking drugs, end up with an equal reward? If things are going to be fair and just, shouldn't there at least be a recognition of any injustices and attempts to reconsile any injustices where possible along the way? Shouldn't the humanity and the free agency and dignity of the aggrieved persons be at least recognized along the way? Any atonement is meaningless if you are mis-treated in its name, or extorted in to accepting it. It's also worthless if others can walk out of the spiritual bank with shopping carts full of cash while simply smirking as they say 'put it on my tab' or 'Jesus has me covered', while others try not to abuse the privilege. These people who abuse the privilege don't deserve love nor forgiveness. They're desperately in need of a good ass kicking.

So with all due respect to love, there is still something critically important that is missing. The perpetution of our species (that includes the existance of you and I) did not happen because people followed religious dogma to the exclusion of common sense. For these reasons, mormonism and mormon culture (while having a legal right to exist), has no valid moral premise. Even when putting aside mormonism, we're still left with some big question mark when it comes to what really matters.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2019 11:19AM by azsteve.

Aedh Laments the Loss of Love

Pale brows, still hands and dim hair,
I had a beautiful friend
And dreamed that the old despair
Would end in love in the end:
She looked in my heart one day
And saw your image was there;
She has gone weeping away.

—W.B.Yeats—