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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 02:42AM

In all fairness, son had not had his first dialysis treatment and was feeling horrible.

He was visited by the hospital chaplain. My son explained that he was an atheist, and had no interest in religion. The chaplain tried again: "Well, we can just talk. . ." Son replied, "Only if it's not about religion."

The chaplain finally wished son a pleasant day and left.

Son said, plaintively, "Mom, I really don't feel good. Do I have to put up with chaplains when I'm an atheist?" I replied, "No, son, you don't."

I spoke to the caseworker and asked her to ban chaplains from son's room. It was done.

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Posted by: ragnar ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 03:03AM

When my brother's 23-y.o. son died in a traffic accident, a policeman and a priest came to his home together to give him the news. My brother - who is an atheist - asked the priest to leave, and he did.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 03:46AM

A good mother.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: January 12, 2019 01:15AM

The ancient, established principle will always stand: Don't go messin' with Mama bear's cub if you don't want to get hurt. I'm not talking about abusive behavior here, just respect for other peoples' boundaries.

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 06:23AM

Every hospital I've worked or trained at asked patients during intake whether or not they welcomed visits from chaplains, and honored patients' wishes. I would assume there have been times when the wrong box was checked and an unwanted visit took place, but I'm also sure the chaplains wouldn't have persisted once a patient let the chaplain know his or her presence was not wanted. Of course your son shouldn't have to deal with unwanted visits from chaplains.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 08:06AM

She refused and said she had a right to be there. Instead, she leaned over me and breathed into my face saying she wanted to pray for me. The next day, she had the gall to return. DH was there. He barred the door and chased her off with some harsh words.

I wrote a letter of complaint to the CEO of the hospital. He answered my letter and said sorry and promised that they'd use my letter for training their pastors.

Pastors like everyone need to knock before they enter a patient's room. They also need to identify who they are and why they are there. Finally, they should ask if the patient wants their service and leave promptly if the answer is no.

The nasty woman who confronted me did none of this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2019 08:08AM by Cheryl.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 09:20AM

First of all, you're a captive audience by virtue of being a patient in the first place. It was an unwanted invasion of privacy. And then her rudeness on top of everything else she may as well have spat in your face. She isn't a pastor. She sounds more like the spawn of Satan.

Anyone would have taken offense at her behavior. It was outlandish.

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Posted by: angela ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 09:33AM

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> She refused and said she had a right to be there.
> Instead, she leaned over me and breathed into my
> face saying she wanted to pray for me. The next
> day, she had the gall to return. DH was there. He
> barred the door and chased her off with some harsh
> words.
>
> I wrote a letter of complaint to the CEO of the
> hospital. He answered my letter and said sorry and
> promised that they'd use my letter for training
> their pastors.
>
> Pastors like everyone need to knock before they
> enter a patient's room. They also need to identify
> who they are and why they are there. Finally, they
> should ask if the patient wants their service and
> leave promptly if the answer is no.
>
> The nasty woman who confronted me did none of
> this.


Cheryl,
How awful. Was this recent? Or did this happen sometime in a more distant past?

I have a cousin who is a UU minister, and has worked as a hospital chaplain. I know she would never behave this way

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 12:10PM


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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: January 12, 2019 12:44AM

Cheryl, that is appalling.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 07:58AM

I had a very bad experience with it when I was in the hospital.

My husband said if a pastor barges into my room in any future illness, I should grab the emergency alarm cord and not let go until a hospital worker shows up to eject the offending pastor.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 08:03AM


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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 08:18AM

Chaplains need to be banned from everywhere, especially government.

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Posted by: Snickers ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 09:08AM

That's just like putting up with Christians on this forum. Can we just eject and ban them all? If you still believe, post elsewhere please.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 09:22AM

Because this isn't an atheist discussion board.

It's open to all. If you no likee, you can go elsewhere.

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Posted by: Concrete Zipper ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 11:52AM

Snickers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's just like putting up with Christians on
> this forum. Can we just eject and ban them all?
> If you still believe, post elsewhere please.

You don't get to decide that. Christians and other believers are welcome to post here.

If you don't like that, feel free to read somewhere else.

CZ (admin)

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: January 12, 2019 12:48AM

Thanks, CZ. With a bit of decency on everyone's part, we should be able to coexist peacefully in this space.

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 09:36AM

I hope ONLY the best for him.

What an invasion of privacy. Isn't it interesting that the religious have no boundaries and then think we are rude for telling them to get out.

I've had to do it a few times recently--not hospital-wise--but in my life. I finally have had it and told the bishop to leave us alone. Resigning DOES NOT stop the invasions. To have ministers show up on the doorstep on a Sunday. I finally had a day off. They used the 12 year old next door neighbor who I'm friends with. I adore their children and they all come to talk to me. They used him as one of the ministers. I was furious. Left a note in the bishop's mailbox (he lives next door) TO LEAVE US ALONE. I told him we have resigned and we want no contact in religious terms. He is my neighbor on the other side of the 12 year old boy. I've talked about the book of mormons my aunt sent to all my mother's children and grandchildren in an effort to save us all for my mother. Obviously my mother failed?????? What a slap in the face to my mother who gave her all to everyone, especially her parents and children.

I'm glad you took care of stopping the "religious" out of your son's hospital room.

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Posted by: auntsukey ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 09:36AM

My sister was recently in the hospital. She's a believer; I'm not.

The chaplain who visited was a former social worker who related to my sister's need for quiet and limited visiting. I truly appreciated the short visit I had with him and the comfort it brought to my sister.

A "good" chaplain is one who is non-denominational, including acceptance of non-belief, who gives the patient and/or family what they need: spiritual comfort, calm discussion if it is needed, space if it's not, respect, privacy, dignity, and the good grace to leave if his presence isn't useful.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: January 14, 2019 11:50PM

We have a good friend who is a non-denominational chaplain who would be glad to visit, but I haven't asked, because son doesn't know her. He said today he is beginning to feel like he is in a fishbowl. He wants very much to go home and have some privacy.

Considering that this hospitalization represents a pivot-point in his life, it's kind of overwhelming. Nothing will ever be the same again. New dietary rules, three sessions (4 hours each) of dialysis every week, and last I knew, renal failure was not considered disabling by the Social Security Administration. People can, and do, go back to work all the time once they are settled into dialysis.

However, Son has had kind of a spotty work history and is currently unemployed. He left his last job a few weeks before going into the hospital, because the gathering storm of symptoms left him absolutely drained. So he doesn't have a job to return to. This whole situation is frightening.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 10:29AM

My file with Alberta Health Care states that I have no religious affiliation and that I do want to be visited by a chaplain....plus the roaming Mormon couples who visit the hospital in Sundays wouldn't know I'm there either.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2019 10:29AM by Lethbridge Reprobate.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 10:45AM

Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My file with Alberta Health Care states that I
> have no religious affiliation and that I do want
> to be visited by a chaplain....plus the roaming
> Mormon couples who visit the hospital in Sundays
> wouldn't know I'm there either.

Is that a typo that you *do* wish to be visited by a chaplain? Or you don't wish to be visited by one?

I'm guessing it's a typo, unless he came equipped with a beer offering? That might win you over!

;)

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Posted by: 3X ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 11:12AM

Such a small typo; what can the harm be? :) :)

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 11:16AM

No harm. The difference means either a welcome visit by a chaplain, or not. I's just pickin' LR's mind, that's all.

It may not be a typo, that's why I asked. Though it most likely is, and my point is therefore a tease to make Ron laugh.

:)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2019 11:20AM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: desertwoman ( )
Date: January 12, 2019 02:40PM

"Let's eat Grandma", or, "Let's eat, Grandma."

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 12, 2019 02:46PM

All that concern about a mere comma?

Sounds like snowflake sensitivity to me!

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: January 13, 2019 08:09PM

Yes...typo. My bad.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 02:46PM

Oops--sorry about use of the word "souls." Didn't mean to offend!

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Posted by: EXON46 ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 04:03PM

I know I may not always have the choice, but I keep a list of hospitals in my area what does not have the word saint or a cross or any other name that can be religious in nature. Medical Center is a good option. If I have to, Memorial Hospital. But no ST. this or god that.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: January 11, 2019 07:25PM

It's better to find out the truth than to assume because of a name.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2019 07:27PM by Cheryl.

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: January 12, 2019 12:54AM

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's better to find out the truth than to assume
> because of a name.


Yep. In California, Adventist Healthcare Inc. is taking over many hospitals. In some cases the names are changed to reflect new ownership. In other cases they've gone with the status quo. It's not safe to assume much anymore.

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Posted by: bobt ( )
Date: January 12, 2019 04:24PM

When my Dad was dying he was in a hospital operated by the Catholic church. I was having a bad time emotionally and went to the chapel. A Priest stopped by, asked if he could help. I told him "No, thanks. I am not a Catholic." He said "I am also a human being. If you need anything, my office is the next door to the left." I appreciated that.

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Posted by: kentish ( )
Date: January 12, 2019 04:28PM

When I am accosted by obnoxious sales people either out and about or on the telephone my usual response is along the lines of "I am not really interested. But thanks for asking." Whatever happened to old fashioned courtesy or do atheists prefer confrontation to make their point?
My experience is that hospital chaplains are not there specifically to convert anyone to their particular brand but to offer comfort or support in an environment where such things can be sorely needed. They don't know if you are religious or atheist until you respond.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: January 12, 2019 06:46PM

The pastor who came to my room did not knock before entering and unlike doctors and nurses, she did not introduce herself or tell why she was there. That's rude and scary to a patient flat on their back and ailing.

Saying she wanted to pray was the only clue to who she was or what she was doing there. I told her no and she objected. That was annoying. I said she needed to leave and not return.

You seem to think that's rude. I don't agree.

Nor did the pastor honor the request since she returned the following day and tried to barge in again.

ALL pastors need to ask if their services are welcome and honor the answer, and saying no is not rude.

The first and primary goal of every patient should be their health and comfort. They don't need to be more concerned about a part time pastor at their door than their own recovery.

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: January 12, 2019 11:12PM

My post was in response to the general gist of the thread rather than your specific experience.

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Posted by: Historian ( )
Date: January 13, 2019 08:05PM

Hmmm...

So because of his job title his offer to just talk was rejected...

Wow....

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: January 13, 2019 08:31PM

When a person is a patient in a hospital, and someone unconnected to their care wants to talk with them, that patient has no social or implicit obligation to agree.

Although hospital chaplains, I assume, operate under basically the same set of ethics and procedures as do military chaplains, there still can be inadvertent trespassing on a patient's rights to their own set of affiliations/beliefs/non-beliefs.

In a somewhat related issue, there are reports in the media of Jewish patients in hospitals in North America being specifically targeted by non-Jewish missionaries, who dress like modern Orthodox Jews dress (none of the peculiar 1700s fashions), and who come around "to talk," with the intent to convert the patient to their [disguised] Christian group, and/or to prompt that person to will their estates to their particular group, instead of to the patient's family, or whoever else that person wants his/her estate to go to. This is evidently becoming a big problem in many areas which have enough Jewish patients to make this worthwhile.

Even in some geographical areas of military presence, there have been some real problems of a similar nature.

No hospital patient has any obligation to talk to anyone they do not want to talk to--most particularly, if the person wanting to talk to them is a stranger.

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: January 13, 2019 09:54PM

When it was time to visit my daughter's body in the hospital, a hospital chaplain was in the room. We didn't talk to him. He was just there. If he'd been Mormon, I would have tossed him out

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Posted by: kathleen ( )
Date: January 14, 2019 01:02AM

Oh, Dorothy! I'm so sorry that happened to you.

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: January 14, 2019 10:02PM

Thanks for your kind words. It's been 12 years, but next Tuesday would have been her 31st birthday and I'm not dealing with it very well.

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